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Thread: War Weight Changes for Clash on TH11 update - December 2015 changes...

  1. #21
    Forum Veteran blombardo's Avatar
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    couple more things...

    Unlocking Hogs level 1 - is 2k weight.

    upgrading red air bombs to level 2 / and 3 is no weight.

    upgrading loons to level 4 =1k

    unlocking BK 2nd test is 2k

    I'll update the first topic in a bit

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by blombardo View Post
    And I am testing this theory out in practice - by swapping out various accounts that I have... I do not truly have any defenseless acounts of any serious weight - and 40% of our accounts are currently following a .5 upgrade path - some are one town hall above that .5 in attack power; the mis matched wars tend to be only on #1 - and not always.

    We had 6 perfectly fair wars in a row - where each clan could have 3 starred the other for a perfect... then we had a 7th and 8th that were mis matched on top -- meaning enemy top 2 were really strong and tnemy 3 4 5 were really weak... the fact that the top 2 had an edge meant that their clan could beat us simply due to the #1 spots being matched wrong.

    So - the idea that our upgrades are causing the problem seem unlikely - because I've noticedd even when the enemy top 6 are substantially higher in weight -- the enemy 7 down are significantly weaker than us... and with stupidcells matching system - 45 bases @ whatever the total weight = another 45 bases at the same weight.. they dont care if the top few spots are FAIR... - which is vital to a decent war match...


    --With walls... I've upgraded 50 skulls on one account and 50 level 7's on another... if this has no effect on war weight this next match up im gonna be surprised...
    So at the minute your fairly confident walls dont add weight?

  3. #23
    Millennial Club rhymquimghyf's Avatar
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    Offensive weight calculated separately.

    Defenseless TH10 has defensive weight equal to TH4. It is below TH5 on war map.
    But his "recommended target" is #1, because his offensive weight is over the roof.

    I believe that during the matchmaking defensive and offensive weights calculated separately, the lowest is ignored, the highest is used as your total war weight.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by rhymquimghyf View Post
    Offensive weight calculated separately.

    Defenseless TH10 has defensive weight equal to TH4. It is below TH5 on war map.
    But his "recommended target" is #1, because his offensive weight is over the roof.

    I believe that during the matchmaking defensive and offensive weights calculated separately, the lowest is ignored, the highest is used as your total war weight.
    I don't think this is completely true. I am close to maxing th9 war troops (missing golems and valks) and I had a 56k in war, without a single th9 defence or even all defences fully maxed at th8 levels.

    (Teslas @5, wiz towers @4 mortars at lvl 5, cannons @8, only archer towers & ADs maxed to th8 levels) but with maxed walls. Currently working on Teslas)

    This means my counters in war are almost always either a rushed dual inferno th10, or a medium-high th9. They all have one thing in common though, their troops suck. The few times when they do have high lvl troops, they are 8.5s too.

    If the game completely ignored my defences our opponents would only be maxed th9s with maxed troops, and we would get creamed, instead of usually winning in spite of ALWAYS being matched vs higher level ths at the top.

    I am fairly certain the game USED to more or less ignore offence, but now it's being averaged between defensive weight and offensive weight. I just started leveling up a defenceless to see how it affects match making. Currently at level 4.

    @op, Please keep up the good work researching. If there's anything I can help with" let me know.

  5. #25
    Centennial Club Izaidi's Avatar
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    this a good thread

    I only see more people complaining about the matchmaking system that contain many flaw. It does need improvement, but no such system is perfect. It is almost impossible to create a perfect system with so many variable. No master programmers can perform this miraculous task. Something need to be excluded

    If only people try to understand the war weight relation to the matchmaking system instead of bashing on every flaw of the matchmaking.

    P/s..I like how this thread include some references for further understanding

  6. #26
    Millennial Club rhymquimghyf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderCND View Post
    ...
    Sorry, I'm too lazy to go into detail.

    Create a new clan with
    1 TH8
    2 TH7
    3 TH6
    3 TH5
    1 TH4

    It's one of the most popular combinations in the game, matches will be very precise, found under 2 minutes.

    Now replace lowest TH4 with defenseless TH10 (max offense) - same war weight.
    Top guys will sh!t bricks when they'll see their mirrors.

    But your defenseless guy will come to the forums and write something along these lines:

    This means my counters in war are almost always either a rushed TH5, or a medium-high TH4. They all have one thing in common though, their troops suck. The few times when they do have high lvl troops, they are defenseless TH10 too.
    ...and probably complain about unfair matches in another thread.
    Last edited by rhymquimghyf; January 18th, 2016 at 11:19 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderCND View Post
    I don't think this is completely true. I am close to maxing th9 war troops (missing golems and valks) and I had a 56k in war, without a single th9 defence or even all defences fully maxed at th8 levels.

    (Teslas @5, wiz towers @4 mortars at lvl 5, cannons @8, only archer towers & ADs maxed to th8 levels) but with maxed walls. Currently working on Teslas)

    This means my counters in war are almost always either a rushed dual inferno th10, or a medium-high th9. They all have one thing in common though, their troops suck. The few times when they do have high lvl troops, they are 8.5s too.

    If the game completely ignored my defences our opponents would only be maxed th9s with maxed troops, and we would get creamed, instead of usually winning in spite of ALWAYS being matched vs higher level ths at the top.

    I am fairly certain the game USED to more or less ignore offence, but now it's being averaged between defensive weight and offensive weight. I just started leveling up a defenceless to see how it affects match making. Currently at level 4.

    @op, Please keep up the good work researching. If there's anything I can help with" let me know.
    Quote Originally Posted by rhymquimghyf View Post
    Sorry, I'm too lazy to go into detail.

    Create a new clan with
    1 TH8
    2 TH7
    3 TH6
    3 TH5
    1 TH4

    It's one of the most popular combinations in the game, matches will be very precise, found under 2 minutes.

    Now replace lowest TH4 with defenseless TH10 (max offense) - same war weight.
    Top guys will sh!t bricks when they'll see their mirrors.

    But your defenseless guy will come to the forums and write something along these lines:



    ...and probably complain about unfair matches in another thread.
    The algorithm probably isn't as straight forward as just comparing two numbers, I don't think. But focusing on the numbers is the only thing we can do. For example as long as nobody was th9 we never ever saw a th10 even super rushed. Once we added a single th9 we get anywhere from 2-5 th9s (very rushed) vs our Th8s, and the odd REALLY rushed Th10.

    Now that we added a medium rushed th10, no infernos, 65k weight, we get tons of dual inferno rushed th10s.

    The experiment above would be more interesting if you add a th10 to the first lineup and then add a defenceless th10, and run both scenarios a few wars, say.. Ten each. At least. Make certain they are under 5 minute searches. And then compare the difference, if any.

    This is essentially what I plan to do.

    Btw I am not complaining about unfair matches. I think gaining a good understand is important so that we can avoid accidentally setting ourselves up for bad matches, which is why I am interested in this thread.
    Last edited by AlexanderCND; January 19th, 2016 at 02:08 AM.

  8. #28
    Forum Veteran blombardo's Avatar
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    replies and more updates.

    Upgrading spell factory to level 3 =1k and a few others edited into the first post.

    I hope to use these numbers to help me arrange wars... If i can perfect it - we can have one clan that always looses - and one that always wins... The loosers will get to loot enemy 1 and 2 for big paydays... the other clan will win the loot bonuses... gaming the system to the extreme for Farm wars...

    Quote Originally Posted by rhymquimghyf View Post
    Offensive weight calculated separately.

    Defenseless TH10 has defensive weight equal to TH4. It is below TH5 on war map.
    But his "recommended target" is #1, because his offensive weight is over the roof.

    I believe that during the matchmaking defensive and offensive weights calculated separately, the lowest is ignored, the highest is used as your total war weight.


    Recommended target is the biggest joke in gaming history. if your a weak th3 with level 1 barbs only... and the whole map is cleared in a 50x50 aside from #1 = a max th11... guess what your recommended target is? -- #1... because 'recommended' only takes into consideration - the lowest 3 star on the map that is available - if none, then the lowest 2 star, if none, then the lowest 1 star... If your the very first attacker in a new war - its closer to accurate - but NEVER really accurate... Some claim that the 'recommended' is your true war weight (in an un touched new clan war) but I can - always - attack much higher than my recommended and 3 star with ease...


    Quote Originally Posted by sawinwright View Post
    So at the minute your fairly confident walls dont add weight?
    I have upgraded 100% of butter walls into pink. - no change.

    've upgraded 100% of pinks into level 7 purples... no change.

    I've upgraded about 100 skulls - on multiple accounts - no change.

    I've done about 20 leggos - no change
    I've upgraded a handful of lavas - no change

    So =if walls have weight - it is fully 100% impacted on day one level 1. OR it is on a sliding TIERD scale where - one day - they will magically add more weight...

    I have not -- and will not (anytime soon) - bought any new walls.. I'm sure they have some weight - but am not sure what that weight would be... and also am not sure how many you have to buy to get that weight added. I can't imagine buying 1 wall section and checking next war to see if 40 points were added.. (wont happen - seems all war numbers are even 1k increments now) -- 1k 2k 3k -- though at th9 the wiz towers rated at 3k suddenly become 1500; so there are SOME that are not a full 1k even. - but most seem to be
    Last edited by blombardo; January 19th, 2016 at 11:28 AM.

  9. #29
    Millennial Club rhymquimghyf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blombardo View Post
    Recommended target is the biggest joke in gaming history.
    Unless you can reverse-engineer the game and pull the number out, that's the best information we have.

    What's important here is that "recommended target" proves that game calculates pure offensive weight separately, and compares it to defensive weight, so the numbers are on the same scale.

    What makes you think that your pure offensive weight isn't user during matchmaking process?
    It is very easy to verify that it indeed used (see my previous reply about effect defenseless TH10 have on a low-level clan wars)
    Last edited by rhymquimghyf; January 19th, 2016 at 03:54 PM.

  10. #30
    Forum Veteran blombardo's Avatar
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    I disagree with your opinion there as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhymquimghyf View Post
    Unless you can reverse-engineer the game and pull the number out, that's the best information we have.

    What's important here is that "recommended target" proves that game calculates pure offensive weight separately, and compares it to defensive weight, so the numbers are on the same scale.

    What makes you think that your pure offensive weight isn't user during matchmaking process?
    It is very easy to verify that it indeed used (see my previous reply about effect defenseless TH10 have on a low-level clan wars)
    *I appreciate your opinion and thoughts - and like that you are interested in war weights - but I think your flat out wrong about some of them; based on my research and experience. The only variable between our research - is that 90% of my started wars are 45x45 and yours only talks about 10x10 - I never do 10x10 because they are always insanely hard - with any level of players; have only done a handful of those wars... perfect vs perfect ties.. no thanks... I like bigger wars where some people will make mistakes.

    First - Recommended target seems to simply suggest that you attack the first base with 3 available stars that is relatively close to your war weight... there is no rhyme or reason in its choice and it is REALLY not accurate at all - it is ALWAYS wrong - EVERY time I have seen this - 15 times per war every other day for a year now - it has ALWAYS suggested wrong. either way too low -or insanely too high. it does not prove that offense/defense is separate... it proves that it is a useless tool that has no brain at all... My recommended for my defenseless are like 2 or 3 above me... I can easily kill 15 above me..

    Then take our rushed th8 players with level 1 dragons.. they attack their recommended - and boom.. 1 star... guess what? There's no way on earth that level 1 drags can do anything vs a th8 with three max air def... hello? that thing is totally stupid and not taking offense into consideration at all.

    Second-
    I have consistently kept our clan wars at th8 and below with almost every war we have fought in recent weeks... I'm talking MID th8 - that can be drag-looned down... not the heavier 'needs hogged' or gowiped style th8s.

    at least 15 to 25 of our 45 players are all upgrading the way that I suggest - at least one (or two, or four) town halls worth of offensie that is higher than defense. Our defenseless accounts number 5 and have all reached close to th7 weight (not as heavy as 10 by a long shot yet) but we have a lot of th9 and 10 accounts (that are really only th6 in real upgrade weight with many defenses not purchased)

    Queens, extra spell slots, bigger camps - all having zero change in our war weight and STILL our top player - a truly honest to goodness mid th8 player - he still gets properly matched against th8 bases that he can 3 star...

    YES there are a couple mix ups...

    but in EVERY example like this war -- where #1 is a town hall 10 with infernos -- you can easily look ath #1 to see his insanely low level defenses - and #2 is always really rushed and weak - then #3 is jokingly easy and really low compared to our #3 -- 4 and 5 as well... so supercell 'makes up' for the heavy #1 on the enemies side - by having really weak OTHER accounts.

    This is why I think your idea is wrong...

    If your idea was right - the entire enemy clan - or a large part of it - would be much stronger than they historically have been.

    I'm talking 45z45 wars here... where all the way down - mirror to mirror - most of the matches are fair. Yes two or three are stronger at one place or weaker in another.. but if your theory was true - the entire top ten to 15 of the enemy clan would - always - have to be - much -stronger than they are.

    As our core clan members (about 30 of the 45) focus 100% on offense and are doing zero weighted defenses (thanks to my info on post 1) our clan wars get easier every time.

    As our leaders recruit players of 35k weight and below - we insure that we match against th7 opponents with our new players... anyone coming in with 45k weight-- we know - will bring mid to high th8 players; if not rushed th9 and 10 ones... at which point you can NOT consistently guarantee 3 stars unless you have plenty of 'rushed' th9 accounts with lvl10 queens and full attack power. In fact - during that rare time that you bring a th10 with a pair of level 1 infernos (who stacked his clan with a million th 3 accounts) you would need 20/20 heroes to be sure you could bring it down...

    Knowing numbers like this has helped our clan immensely.

    I have started over 150 wars in the past year of game play across 6 clans that I participate in. 10x10 wars are the hardest in the game... 50x50 wars are also very tough... I find 45x45 to be the sweet spot for getting the easiest overall matches. any other combinations bring challenging opponents.. but with 45x45 19 out of 20 are noob clans that have no organization and who can not bring any real competition. That one out of 20 though, seems to really kick us... with a tie and a win or loss by 1 star or a percent... During that 1 out of 20 we are mis matched badly...

    These numbers intend to cure that mis matched problem; if we can insure powerful attackers exist on our side... it does not matter how badly supercell skews the match.. w e will still be able to win.

    -Will keep testing - moving my town hall 8 up to th11 now... (my max th8 is really using th10 attack power - with 20/21 heroes and 80% max troops it has 65k war weight with 100% lava walls - and consistently matches against mid th9 players that I can easily kill) Every war that account has been placed into - in the last 3 months - it has always 3 starred the top 2 enemy bases...

    That is proof that my research is working. Eventually I hope to replace that account which pulls th9 mirrors - and replace it with a defenseless on bottom that pulls th7 mirrors... I will be very happy then...
    Last edited by blombardo; January 19th, 2016 at 08:27 PM.

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