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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Trophies & Matchmaking explained!

  1.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #1
    Rauta's Avatar
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    Post Trophies & Matchmaking explained!

    There seems to be quite a lot of confusion and misconceptions surrounding our matchmaking system. I decided to make this post to hopefully clear up some of these.


    Why is this kind of system in use?
    Our matchmaking system aims to rank players based on their skills in the multiplayer matches. These skills consist of designing the best defense for your village, the ability to successfully attack other villages and the decision making skill of picking good targets to attack.

    The reason we are using this system is that it allows more players to play the game competitively regardless of how long they've been playing. If we would have a system where the trophies always increased, then the players who started earlier would be so far ahead in the trophies that it would not be realistic for new players to catch up with them. The possibility of losing trophies reduces this problem and adds an interesting risk versus reward element into the game.


    How do I gain and lose trophies?
    You gain trophies by successfully attacking other players or by successfully defending against other players. The amount of trophies you win or lose is based on the difference between you trophies and your enemy’s trophies.

    Generally, if you win against a player who has more trophies than you, you will be rewarded with a lot of trophies. Losing against an enemy with fewer trophies than you makes you lose a lot of trophies. Winning against an enemy with fewer trophies than you will give you only a few trophies, but losing against an enemy with higher trophies than you takes only a few trophies away.

    Here is a handy diagram to make it a bit easier to understand:
    Win Lose
    Enemy with more trophies than you You win a lot of trophies You lose only a few trophies
    Enemy with less trophies than you You win only a few trophies You lose a lot of trophies


    How does the matchmaking system work?

    When you click the “Find a match” button from the attack screen, the game tries to find the best match available for you. The system only takes into account your amount of trophies. After a match has been found, you have 30 seconds to view the enemy’s village and decide if you want to attack. If you’d rather attack someone else, you can click the next button and the system will find you a new match. Making good decision affect your score, although indirectly.


    Why am I being attacked by a much higher level player?

    The matchmaking system is only based on the amount of trophies. You are able to attack lower level players and higher level players are able to attack you, given that the amount of trophies between the attacker and defender are near each other.

    If you were attacked by a player with much higher level, then this is usually a good indication that you’ve done a good job! You have gotten so many trophies that the matchmaking system thinks that you’re ready to play against the players who have high level town hall and high amount of trophies. Usually it would be a good idea to upgrade your town hall at this point. You need the best troops and best buildings to compete for the top ranks.


    I was attacked by a player with a lot more trophies than I have. How can this be possible?

    This was most likely a Revenge match. You can revenge other player’s attacks by clicking the Revenge button in the Battle Log. Attacking through this button skips the matchmaking entirely and can create matches with a large difference in trophy points.

    We’re working on ways to make it a bit more clear which attack came as revenge. This should clear up a lot of confusion surrounding this functionality.


    Why am I only getting matches that I can get only a few trophies from?

    At the time being, after you reach a certain threshold of trophies, the system will have a hard time to find you a suitable match. This is because most of the other players near your trophy count are either online or have active shields.

    As the game has been out globally for only a month now, most of the new players have not yet reached the higher levels and higher trophy counts. As time goes on and more of the new players reach the same trophies in the game as you, you will once again find good matches. This might be a good time to build up your defenses.


    Why can I lose more trophies than I can win from a single match?

    The system assumes that the player with higher amount of trophies will most likely win the match. For example, if player A (with high trophy count) attacks player B (with low trophy count) and loses, the system will move some of the trophies from player A to player B. Next time player A goes to attack, he will face easier targets while player B will be a target for even higher ranked players.

    So if you attack a player with fewer trophies than you and lose that match, you’re going to lose more trophies than you would have gained if you had won. Making a mistake as a high ranked player has a larger effect on their rank than the same mistake would have on a low ranked player. High ranked players will need to play extremely well in order to preserve their trophies and rank.


    Why do we have to lose trophies?

    If you only view the system based on your personal experience with it, you will feel that your victories were justified but your losses were unfair. So far we’ve yet to receive a single report from a player stating that they gained too many trophies defenses or attacks

    Your major victory was a major loss for another player. You grave defeat was a 30 trophy victory for someone else. Every battle you fight in multiplayer has an effect on another player’s game. And each battle’s outcome is rewarded using the same set of rules. You do lose some trophies to other players, but that is just part of the game.

    Losing trophies is an essential part of the system, even while can create a lot of negative feelings. If players wouldn’t have the possibility of losing trophies, the top players would just keep on accumulating their trophies and soon it would be impossible for new players to reach the top ranks. This would not be fair for new players.


    Wouldn’t a system based on something else be better?

    In such a system we would still have to introduce some aspect for losing trophies, so it would still cause a lot of grief. Even if the system was not based on the trophy count, we would still need to have the possibility to lose a lot of trophies in order to keep the top players from getting too far in scores. So in that sense, changing the current system to be based on something else will not remove the major complaint we get, which is the possibility of losing trophies.

  2. #2
    Thanks for exlaining. I completely understand that it makes sense to lose trophies. Actually it makes the fights more interesting if there is something lose and not only to gain. Nevertheless, there are two aspects where hope for improvement in the future.

    1) the level of the player should also have an influence in matchmaking
    it could be enough to add a rule that can be no more than five levels difference between opponents and apart from that stay with the trophy algorithm. All we need is to avoid gross mismatches and abuse.

    2) better balance between winning and losing trophies
    losing trophies is fine. Its just hard when you fight for hours to gain 30 trophies and then to loose them in one failed raid. Again, slight tweaking might be enough. Just make us lose a little less trophies.

  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #3
    Rauta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 00Delphi View Post
    1) the level of the player should also have an influence in matchmaking
    it could be enough to add a rule that can be no more than five levels difference between opponents and apart from that stay with the trophy algorithm. All we need is to avoid gross mismatches and abuse.
    We've seen that this becomes only a problem after players after player get too far from the mass of new users we got in the global release. We'd rather not make any dramatic changes here lightly, as these might lead to the top getting too far away or opening new possible exploits. We're only just seeing the effects of the shield cooldowns in the coming weeks and that's something that went live a week ago. This system needs some time to adjust itself and for the players to spread out a bit more on the trophy scale.

    Quote Originally Posted by 00Delphi View Post
    2) better balance between winning and losing trophies
    losing trophies is fine. Its just hard when you fight for hours to gain 30 trophies and then to loose them in one failed raid. Again, slight tweaking might be enough. Just make us lose a little less trophies.
    This too will improve as the mass catches up with the lead, but we're also monitoring the system closely and making tweaks to how it works. Our goal, as always, is to ensure the best possible experience for our players as a whole.
    Last edited by Rauta; September 4th, 2012 at 11:41 AM.

  4. #4
    Thank you. This was very helpful.

    It would be good, though, to see an indication of the risk you run when you accept a match.
    You can see how many trophies you can win, but you can't see how many you could lose.
    Maybe a 'risk' indicator would be a good idea. At least give you a feel of the risk you take by attacking.

  5. #5
    Rauta,

    I am glad that you're at least trying to explain yourself, but I think you fail to see this from an overall perspective of your gamer community. Maybe, I do not know your player base numbers, so I do not see how many people are newer and what their active hours are versus players that are level 30+.

    I think you are alienating a very specific group of your players. You have players that are playing your game day in and day out, baby sitting their iPhone or iPad to earn trophies. In regards to the multiplayer aspect of this game, isn't earning trophies the number one concern? You build defenses to protect yourself from losing trophies, you build troops to attack to gain trophies, and you manage your town to ensure more successful attacks and defenses (all because of trophies).

    There is nothing else to earn besides building up to earn trophies. Your weekly tournament is even centered around this idea. I, honestly, do not plan on returning to this game due to these issues, but for the sake of those who are not here on the forums to voice their opinions, I want to draw up some things I believe you are overlooking:

    Your "Hardcore" Player Base is Being Punished for Playing:
    Since your whole multiplayer concept is to earn trophies, let me give you an example of what myself and other players (top 50 clans) are typically doing while playing. We build troops incessantly, while keeping the connective active to prevent an accidental log off. Obviously the goal is to not disconnect because you will be attacked within seconds (not an exaggeration). We are donating troops to each other constantly during this time as well.

    Before I go further, let us examine how long this has taken someone and what kind of resources they just spent to get ready for a battle. Let's assume they built 60 archers (@200 elixir each) , 25 barbarians (@100 elixir), 5 giants (@1000 elixir), and 2 wallbreakers(@1000 elixir). The total amount of elixir spent is 21,500. Now, if we factor in at least one donation (which during this time is probably closer to 5) of 5 archers then the total amount of elixir spent is 22,500. And, this is cheap by many other players' standards. So, going into battle you will want to find a battle where you can earn at least 22,500 elixir to justify the cost of your troops. Before I go any further, let us assume it took somewhere between 20-25 minutes to build this army. This is an estimate, but I'm certain (without gems) this is fairly accurate.

    Now, 20-25 minutes and 22,500 elixir later, we are ready for battle. Now, because, according to you, the player is doing so well and has ~1500 trophies around lvl 30 he is being paired up with many people for 1-2 trophies. When the player does find someone for more than 10 trophies it is against someone who he has no chance of winning against because this player has spent more time/resources in the game. So, according to everything you said before, that a town hall level 5 player should not be able to compete against a town hall level 8 player (and, yes, these were the types of matches I was seeing) and that one should pick your opponents carefully, the player skips this battle. Thus, having to settle on either a town with a lot of resources or an opponent that can net him maybe 5 trophies.

    After, said battle (regardless of the fact the player earned 1, 2, or 3 stars which would diminish the trophy return) the process starts all over again. This is what players do in your game, day in, and day out. Now, imagine doing that 5 times. Building up your army, getting ready to attack, and attacking 5 times would take about 2 hours at this rate. Not to mention the 112,500 elixir you've spent. And, let's pretend you were extremely fortunate to get 5 trophies each of those battles. That's 25 trophies you've earned!

    Time for a break, right? You deserve it. You log off, get attacked, and when you come back you learn that you've lost 30 trophies in your defense to a higher level player who has a town hall of level 8, but just so happens to have close to the number of trophies you have. So, after that two hour play session your total net of trophies is -5. NEGATIVE 5. This "fictional" example I made up is actually what happens daily in your game.

    So, your answer to all of this? "Upgrade your town hall!" A process that takes 3 to 4 days, mind you. Oh, and what else should we do? "Upgrade your defenses!" Ok, sounds good, that takes what? 12 hours for a level 5 to 6 cannon? So, what do you propose players do in the mean time? What about when you don't have a shield? Spend gems so you can protect yourself while your town hall upgrades for 3 to 4 days? Or should we just suck up each trophy loss of 30 or more trophies because we're doing so well. It's great that we have so many trophies, right? So, we should feel accomplished when your system pairs us up with a higher level opponent and we lost 2 hours of work?

    Do you see what I am referring to here? You are essentially telling your players to NOT play your game. You are telling them that, even though the focus of your game is to earn trophies, don't do that! That's going to make things worse for us. Instead, don't play, and let your town hall upgrade for 4 days and just hope you don't get hit for 30 trophies each time you're being attacked.

    And, you're telling us this is all intentional to protect your new players. Are you kidding me? Do you know that every single gaming community that caters to its competitive nature is only successful because it listens to its most hardcore fanatics? The people that play this game the most! Look at Starcraft 2. The game is patched over and over again to support the competitive community. Features are added and balances are made based on community feedback.

    Look at the state Diablo 3 is in now. The developers even issued an apology to the fans for the end-game content. Now, they're scrambling to implement things that will make it fun for their hardcore players to keep playing. Are they worried about people catching up to their top players? NO! Why should they? The people that are lower levels that play have fun playing because they get to do what the game is intended to do (build and earn trophies) and they do that with other friends and clan mates that are the same level as them. Why are you taking that away from the higher level players or, the ones that have more trophies than they should for their level, to protect these new players?

    For some reason you also keep saying new players will not be able to catch up. I wish you read the other thread we had where I replied to you answered this: http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...hose-with-gems

    If you make it so that earning trophies is based on your level and the level of players around you, then you will cap yourself out at a certain point. At some point, you will be a level where most players are not higher level than you and you will be capped at how many trophies you can earn because of this fact. Lower to mid-tier players will still earn greater trophy increases, thus they will have a chance to catch up, if and only if they keep playing!

    I think I've spent too much energy on all of this, but I feel that, you guys as developers are being short sighted when it comes to your "hardcore" community. I hope this does some good for the people that are still playing this game...

  6. #6
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    to sum it up:


    • the way this system is designed is great if you are just starting the game and trying to catch up to the top.



    • but once you're at the top, it's a beyatch trying to stay there.

  7. #7
    Explaining how the system works doesn't fix the problem... Make searching for battles free? I just spent 60,000 gold trying to find another battle more than 3 trophies.... How am I supposed to upgrade anything if I have spent over $125 on this game and can't seem to save up more than 150,000 gold to upgrade anything.... Small tweaks can be made without changing the system. Just make a change ....that's all we ask. I feel like I have just wasted $125 lol

  8. #8
    I dont have any problems on finding golds and elixirs in attacks and also upgrading times and so on as these are for all players and each game has its own ups and downs
    the problem is the cup points in attacks !!!!
    your pointing system is black and white and there is no colors in between !!!
    as you should know it yourself the pointing system has to be fixed some how !
    the problem is I'm at level 35 with 1450 trophies !
    when I'm looking for an attack most of the opponents I get are 1 pointers and most of them are low level players from 10-30, there should b some deference when I attack a player with 1000 trophies lower than me and a player with 100 trophies lower !!! not that every lower attack give me 1 point !!!
    so if attack a low level player i get 1 point and if lost the battle I lose 20-30 points
    the problem is in search for new attacks I get to some high level players with 1 point too there are plenty high level players with cups points lower than me ...
    so why I should get 1 point to attack a level 50 player with townhall level 8 or 9 ????
    there should be some more details in giving points for attacks and not just the cups point we have !
    also you can change the trophy cup points range for attacks and defense
    there should be some kind of logical formula between trophied and level like if trophy = a and level = b then c point ..... and not just if trophy = a then point = b
    Last edited by papampi; September 5th, 2012 at 10:55 AM.

  9. #9
    Just attack a 30 pointer and lost 40 points !!!!!!!
    isnt a 30 pointer attack suppose to be higher than me ??????
    isnt loosing to a higher point should loose less points if defeated ???????

    WHY ??????????

  10. #10
    And another high point attack get me -30 !!!
    Attacked a 29 pointer and lost -30 with 49% damage !!!!
    what is this ?????
    you yourself dont know what is happening and your explanation is wrong .....

    any one is going to answer ??????

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