Barching for league bonus - My Experiment

[Apollo1976]

Incoming flaming yada yada.
Please try and keep it civil.

With all the recent controversy about barching being nerfed and being forced to create larger armies, I wanted to conduct a little test, at the risk of losing my much loved legend trophies.

So, I decided to take a standard BArch army, and try for league bonus in legend.
Now obviously I wouldn't expect people to push to legend for the bonus, but a 150k (ish) bonus in champs is fairly decent for a barch attack, and rather easy for even a Town Hall 9 to achieve. I did it my whole farming life.

So, the army consisted of 80 Barbarians, 160 archers, 1 poison, 1 EQ spell (not needed), 5 lightning spells, (Which werent all needed, see video), heroes and Clan Castle troops.

Total army cost = 230k Elixir (remember not all spells will be needed, and they are half the army cost) and 180DE.
Total loot gained from league bonus is 340k Gold, 340k Elixir and 2400 DE.
That's a profit of 340k Gold, 110k Elixir (at least) and 2220 DE just in league bonus.
Then in the actual raid I made:



Total profit:
701,237 Gold.
200,866 Elixir.
2231 Dark Elixir.

And that is from one raid, on an army that took half an hour to cook. I urge clashers to move up the leagues a bit, and start looking at the league bonus as a viable source of income, instead of relying on collector bases.
And as a bonus! It's incredibly rare you dont get a shield up here!

-Lach

Lach, only .01% of the player base even has a level 20 Grand warden that gives all their troops 50% more life. I respect you immensely on these forums so I mean no disrespect here, but everything is easier when you have 100% max troops that include level 40 royals as well as a level 20 Grand Warden.

Just my .02.

Additionally, you had 5 max Lightning spells which take 1 hour and 40 minutes to cook as well. If anyone tried that attack without full 100% max TH11 troops, they would fail badly. You also got very lucky that those mortars did not smoke the heck out of your cheap army.

If this is working well for you, please show us your war logs where we see a half dozen or so attacks like this.

[samsneed]

5 lvl 7 lightning spells...

[Apollo1976]

A mod made this thread

He didn't use all of them, and even so, the cloud time up there is huge, allowing you to just return to your base to get the spells that were cooking when you left...

About the heroes... At that league most players have maxed heroes, but if he wants to convince people he should try it out with 20/20 heroes and no GW.

I am not sure what video YOU were watching, but in the video I watched, he did indeed use all 5 lightning spells. In fact, they saved his butt in a huge way. Additionally, he also has 2 max witches and some wizards in his clan castle)

[reallow]

post result barching without hero, and then we'll talk

[Apollo1976]

post result barching without hero, and then we'll talk

reallow - I really wish there was a like button on these forums...LOL

[MacMahon]

Uhh, not everyone has maxed heroes.

Some of us don't even have a Queen (TH8) and apparently never will since it's impossible to save that much DE.

[Apollo1976]

Some of us don't even have a Queen (TH8) and apparently never will since it's impossible to save that much DE.

LOL can i get a Like button once again..haha this is true gold.

A great mod Lach is, but much like many of teh fanboys on these forums...very out of touch.

Some might even say an elitest now.

[LachNessMeownster]

I won't flame. But that doesn't mean I can't criticize it either.
Nope. Nope. Nope Nope Nope Nope. Nope. Here's why:
- First off this is done with 100 levels of heroes. No farmer has that and therefore it is unreasonable to look to this as a viable example.

I've seen plenty of new TH11's complaining they can't farm anymore. That's probably where this example in particular should have been aimed at. Though as was mentioned, the same can be done in lower leagues usch as champs for TH9. I farmed my entire Town Hall 9 at 3200 - 3600 with barch.

- Five spells. Even if they weren't needed, this "half hour army" now takes over an hour and a half. That is, without gems of course.

The army itself takes half an hour, the spells won't be needed 90% of the time so will carry on into the next raid.

- Search cost is not factored in. You haven't said anything about search time, the amount of nexts it took, or what you found in between. With farming so reliant on effeciency any argument with only one raid is null and void.

1000 gold for one search is what it cost me.
In lower leagues you have the luxury of searching for that right base

Let's now analyze a couple of his statements.
I'm sorry but you really have no right to discuss how easy it is for TH9s to get champs bonus if you aren't one. You might have an alt (which I'm certain you don't; I was in Invictus for four months and didn't hear a mention of an alt you had.)

Cough. I was a Town Hall 9 once. Of course I have the right.

This confirms the previous statement about how it was only one raid.
We did look at that as a "viable source of income" pre-update. What you imply, from my perspective, is that all complainers are collector farmers which couldn't be further from the truth.

Im not saying this is the way for everyone. Which I have already stated. Im simply saying its an option for people

The shield stuff: yeah, but you get raided for so many trophies, it's literally impossible to sustain with the schedule of casuals. Making any statement to counter this would imply that SC desires to see casuals in Legend league which is contradictory.

I specifically said this wouldn't be for legend... It just happens to be where I am now. And I will be sure to do some more raids when I drop next week

In summary, the following has been stated:
- A single raid which contains an alleged profit of about 1m using a so called "half hour army", that uses a full loadout of clan castle troops, spells and heroes which the average joe farmer does not have access to
- Therefore, from this, the best solution is to move up into leagues, and it could be stated that one of the implications is that Legend league is a sustainable place for farming and should be utilized for farming. When, in truth, SC is claiming that they got rid of farming.

That is so for from a correct summary. That is your interpretation from reading through, picking and choosing.
And as I have already posted, I have no idea why Support was saying they removed farming. They were referring to Town Hall sniping, but for some reason called them the same thing. I was sure to let them know they are two very different things.

Thank you for making the effort and taking the trophy risk.

While the results serve as an example of what can be achieved, a vast majority of players aren't going to be max TH10 (or better) and even in the case of those players, they aren't raiding as a new TH10, trying to raid TH10 & TH11 with TH9 troops and heroes.

I wonder if SuperCell has test or press accounts, which could be setup to experiment with a senerio similar to what I've described?

Oh for sure, I wouldn't expect people to be barching Maxed bases. But in Legend, I dont have the luxury of skipping to find a more average base. So this was used as an example, to say that even in the highest end of the game, Tier 1 troops are still viable.

Back when champs was the top league barching the league bonus was definitely a thing and players in my clan were doing it regularly. I'm not a barcher myself so I can't offer any insight into the matter, plus I'm at the TH9 wall/hero grind phase prioritizing DE over all which is mightily abundant in champs. I move up from M3 recently just because the bonus covers the army I'm using and puts DE straight into my pocket. Most of it being centralized though I need a stronger army than TH9 barch get there anyway. 1hr training time on the army though, but in the context in which I raid which is 3x on shield + 1x right after guard expires it works. 4 attacks for every 1 defense. 12-15K DE in 2500 out. Gold all profit, elixer slight profit.

In other words there are many ways to solve the puzzle in the higher leagues if you've got the tools and skills required to be there in the first place.

Absolutely. I know many champ barch farmers who have used this technique for years.

Okay, maybe he didn't next. But pretty much every base out there is maxed and therefore has a lot of loot anyway, so the testing conditions, therefore, are unsuitable.

The testing conditions, were an example of using barch in the extreme. They will be scaled way down in lower leagues, which I have already promised to demonstrate when I drop.

thank you radiating looks like lach missed what i said or just did want to respond to me i mentioned some of these in less details on the front page just after he was created the post and he replied to others below me so he obviously read it but did not care to elaborate himself when posed with those questions if you see the replay he has ~30% without using heroes and spells.

I replied to a similar question
Again, in champs, you can search for bases with buildings outside. That was a two hour cloud, so I wasnt going to skip for a better example.
Noone could barch the outside buildings of a southern teaser, and not use heroes.

Let's be honest here. What farmers really want is to be able to attack more, most want to attack every 10 minutes. They want to play the game!

The reality of town hall 10 and 11 balance requires a full army, all your heroes and a good number of spells. Current hero regeneration time for max heroes is 1 hour 45 minutes. So, in reality, as a town hall 11 I'm restricted to the amount I can attack in the higher leagues by the hero regen time. If that's my restriction then of course I'm going to train some golems or lavahounds or other big army troops... Why not?

if supercell were to introduce a league perk system like Daz has proposed and that league perk system reduced hero regen time, spell cook time and troop training time then and only then would you see more farmers move up into the higher leagues. If this league perk system also reduced cost of spells and troops then we would really have a winner!

Restricted perhaps in leagues such as Titan and legend, down lower. Perhaps not so much
I do LOVE Daz's idea however, and it is one of the many I have sent to the team.

as much as we appreciate your effort lach, but tbh, the real barching is doing it with maximum 1 hero, or without damaging the heroes.

the beauty of barching is the fast training time and the cheap cost. if you need to wait for your heroes to regen or gem them (EDIT: or use all the spells), then it defeats the purpose of barching.

just my 2 cents.

Thanks, answer above

I don't think it's a viable strategy if it requires people to gain as many trophies as the #1 top player in the previous months, especially for more casual players.

Its most certainly not for everyone, Im not saying it should be. Even if it just helps one person, the thread is worth it

I scanned through most of your replies, but I am not sure if this got asked: did your royals get damaged? What was the regen time? Barching for league bonus, as you have stated, is nothing new. However, often your royals will get killed, thus with 40/40 you are looking at a regen time of 1 hr 45 minutes, which is a huge setback unless you are willing to boost them. Also, the fail safe would be bringing lits to zap builders hut if you are just short of 50%, which once again translate to boosting SF if you need to use more than 1 zap. I'm not saying barching for league bonus isn't viable, but I felt all the caveat should be disclosed. I'm a huge fan of transparency. While I did consider barching for league bonus, I explicitly didn't adapt this strategy as I didn't wish to be boosting my royals/SF often or all the time.

PS. Pushing league, such as titan/legend, people don't value resource as much, thus it is easier to get to the storages. Even in champs and lower, the storages will be protected, so realistically attackers would only be mostly looking at league bonus and maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of the storages if they are lucky.

Absolutely they got damaged. But that's due to the base, I normally wouldn't use them until the very end of a raid if I still need %. Here is an example of when I was an early TH10 farming in champs, yes, its an old raid. But its the exact same principle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkFxAg6PCXw

Thanks lach for making effort to bring this in. Here are some problems that might prevent most clashers from being able to do same:

- Not everyone have maxed king/queen/gw
- GW alone increase your troops HP by 50%. Most are farming it so will not have it. This is a big disadvantage.
- Most bases are not barch friendly up in titan
- You used 5 light spells. Those need 100 minutes to be built

In lower leagues this could work but still this type of raiding is boring for me as it takes much time more than regular barch. Hope this solves some people problems but for me it doesn't

I think all those points have now been addressed

As a th10 in low champs, 10-15% of the bases i see are th9 - all barchable with minimal spells / hero damage if you're an advanced th9 or a 10. personally i'm superqueening as i want de - again, finding plenty of bases that are giving me what i need.

I take the points around the hero / spell usage in this example - but this was legend league. Whilst it won't work for all clashers (& no idea what an 11 would find if searching in my range), there are plenty of targets available in higher leagues (M1/low champs) that you can make a fair profit on with a relatively quick army.

From reading the threads on milking, perhaps not quite the same ROI - but if you don't have the time to commit to the solid sessions required to make the most of the low leagues, there is another way.....

Thats pretty much what I am trying to convey

Not everyone has max royals, lach. Oh and i salute u for bravery
to barch in LEGENDS

Thanks, adressed your concern in my post

Ahh, missed the video before.



Entire barch army used. All 3 royals died (40/40/20). Got to 45%? Used 5 lit and an eq to kill builders hut/altar to get to 50%+ and league bonus. Base was a southern teaser with an opened walls, if it was an enclosed base he wouldn't have gotten any storages with the barch (except for the quadrant where his heroes are concentrated, he may get 2-3 storages in that section).

5 lit - 100 minutes brew time
40/40 - 1 hr 45 minutes regen time each
20 GW 1 hr 8 minutes

In short: need to boost 4 things to do this every 30 minutes, or you get to raid every 1 hr 45 minutes.

PS. Props for ballsy barch in legend.

Yes, not the greatest base to barch. But I wasnt going to skip. In lower league you can afford to skip bases

Guys, we've been saved! This is indeed a helpful threadstart and does not aim to brag. All you have to do to get resources for upgrades is to upgrade your upgrades and upgrade your heroes to max and start barching to 50% in champion/legend league!

Elixir will now magically appear in your storages so you can start the long push, good luck!

Thanks for the sarcasm

I'm a TH9 in champs 3 and I've been barched 3 times by a TH10. In all three times I lost between 50 to 60% and minimally in my storages. In my opinion it's the new win win where the attacker gets 90% of the win bonus and uses cheap troops, I get a shield and keep the majority of my loot. One attacker actually stopped when he got to my storages!

If you have max barch TH10, I strongly recommend this method as it's critical for guys like me to survive in champs.

Win win! Love it!

I am not sure how sustainable this is in Legends, but I know it can be done in Champs because I have been doing it.

I Gibarch in champs 1 and have been barching in champs(1-3) for OVER A YEAR now. I started with 20/20 heroes and I now have max heros. I also Gibarched the majority of the time with 1 hero down until 3 days before the update when my queen was finally maxed.

I use 8 giants, 4 wbs, 50 barbs, and 142 archers. I also take wiz and archers in my CC. My spells are 5 lightning, 1 earthquake, and 1 poison in the CC.

Disclaimers:
-I only gone for the loot bonus through %.
-I recognize I benefit from max heros/troops/spells right now, but I was able to use the same tactics with a slightly lower success rate with lower heros/troops/spells and most of the time I was upgrading heros back to back.
-I sometimes boost my King and spell factory. I can run through spells dropping splash damage and my king tends to take a lot of damage since he doesn't have a range attack.

This update hurts and helps me.

- With the % emphasis on the loot bonus I sometimes make less from the bonus than I did preupdate.
- There are more bases offered due to people being pushed higher in trophies, not being able to hide their loot behind shields.
- With people are now centering their THS, I am able to find more bases with storages behind only one wal and many more buildings outside the walls..

Barching the loot bonus is very lucrative!! Just because you haven't figured out how to do something doesn't make it impossible.

Thanks for the insight. Its great to see another strategy.
In regards to league bonus, I did have a very extensive chat about what the word "significant" means.

It's not good science to call one attack a true test and present those numbers as results.

Was it a live or dead base?
How many 'nexts' did it take?
Are you representative of the 'average' clasher in your league?
Could you have had similar results if you only had one, or no, hero to work with?
Would it have been possible to get the maximum league bonus with that army composition? (Remember, pre-update with TH exposed you could get the entire league bonus with just one level 1 barb)

Please, do some more testing and produce those results.

Live base In the OP.
No nexts.
Noone in Legend is an average Clasher, that wasnt the point of the thread
No, I most certainly would not have won against THIS base without my heroes. That is my point, you have the luxury of skipping in champs league.

Why are these moderators and Clash team people (and some youtubers) ALWAYS test with the stupid maxed troop and claim it works? This is nonsense and this is why the update fail, and the reason why there are so much complain about this update. You don't even know your audience, what a real CHIEF! Gosh. If a real Chief gem for win, then gem for a gowipe, gohog, gowiwi, laloon, or whatever great army. Don't just show me gem base to max, but still use baby troops. It doesnt make sense! Why don't you use a lv20 hero, level 6 barb and archers to fight a Th10? That5's more reasonable and representative to the majority of the players trying to make progress.

OH BOY! People never learned and still proud of what they showing. Dang it!

I know more than enough about farming, I farmed Town Hall 1 right up to Town Hall 10.
Please give the thread a little read please

Thanks for risking your trophies for the experiment.

A few things of note:
1) most players do not have maxed heroes and are not able to farm with both heroes constantly
2) The grand warden is extremely powerful with mass troops - again most of us do not have a grand warden for attacking
3) The 50% you were able to get on the base would not provide much loot benefit in the leagues where this attack strategy was once useful.

That being said, I do not believe your single barch attack can convince the masses of players that is it still an effective farming strategy. This update has been brutal to efficient farming strategies.

I do thank you for taking the time to run the experiment.

I dont think it would convince masses either, but if one person is encouraged to try it out. Its a win then, isnt it?

Could a mod close this thread... Oh wait... Seriously, how does this help anyone? Maxed heroes, AND 5 spells (so the army cook time is basically that of lavaloonion defeating the purpose of Barching entirely).

Please read the thread

wow to half this thread!!! it's just a random example!!!

it's merely stating that if it's possible to win an attack in legends with barch, it's likely possible lower down

Yes, not everyone has max heros, but then who is also attacking a max th10/11 base with max Heros defending it?!

PLENTY of bases in master/champion that are nowhere near as strong as those in legend...easy to find them with a few next's

It seems most of this forum just want an argument regardless.

Yes Chris! Yes!

Sorry but your post can't be taken seriously.
Not everybody can be in Legend or Titan league (since the number of trophies is limited, bases distribution gets a pyramidal scheme).

Even considering the Champ and Master league (going lower the league bonus is not that significant), probably no more than 20% of total players can be there.

What about the remaining majority?
And you cherry picked 1 single attack..not a sequence of them..and with all heroes maxed (what about the rest of us who havent all heroes maxed and possibly upgrading too..).

Of course it won't be taken seriously, hence my opening line. :P
I even said I dont think it would be viable in Titan and Legend.

I can assure you, with some practice, any decent TH9+ can farm at 3200.

I can't believe you didn't think about any of that while writing your post.

And I cant believe you didn't read my post before telling me I didn't think about my post.

Lach, only .01% of the player base even has a level 20 Grand warden that gives all their troops 50% more life. I respect you immensely on these forums so I mean no disrespect here, but everything is easier when you have 100% max troops that include level 40 royals as well as a level 20 Grand Warden.

Just my .02.

Additionally, you had 5 max Lightning spells which take 1 hour and 40 minutes to cook as well. If anyone tried that attack without full 100% max TH11 troops, they would fail badly. You also got very lucky that those mortars did not smoke the heck out of your cheap army.

If this is working well for you, please show us your war logs where we see a half dozen or so attacks like this.

All addressed in this post

post result barching without hero, and then we'll talk

Again, please read above

Some of us don't even have a Queen (TH8) and apparently never will since it's impossible to save that much DE.

Well.. I dont recommend a TH8 try Champs farming then. :P
Which I have said

LOL can i get a Like button once again..haha this is true gold.

A great mod Lach is, but much like many of teh fanboys on these forums...very out of touch.

Some might even say an elitest now.

Out of touch... Ouch...

[Rampantarmadillo]

Lol wut?

I now wut baRch iz bruh.

What I am getting at is the fact that to use this ( at least up there ), you have to gem 4 things. That's 20 gems per hour. Not everyone can do that, and if anything it should be added in the OP for those also wanting to know how to do this.

Incorrect. If he's in the clouds for two hrs per search, he has to gem heros only; spell bake time is covered.

[MysteriousR]

I have been wondering if BArching for the league bonus is still a viable option...

Anyone also, please also try Masters III and Crystal III but using no heroes