Why Town Hall 10 Should Have Access to Grand Warden (Level 5)

[3lorian]

Heavens no!!!! Th10 shouldn't have a warden. It would make th10 hogs and witches way to powerful. One of the biggest balancing mistakes SC made was giving th9s hounds. Hounds switched the balance of power at th9 and made it impossible to truly defend at th9 (if it weren't for hounds th9s could actually hold 2 stars). Wardens are the same deal.

[Ashlain]

Heavens no!!!! Th10 shouldn't have a warden. It would make th10 hogs and witches way to powerful. One of the biggest balancing mistakes SC made was giving th9s hounds. Hounds switched the balance of power at th9 and made it impossible to truly defend at th9 (if it weren't for hounds th9s could actually hold 2 stars). Wardens are the same deal.

I can tell you that you're in a VAST minority thinking that Th9 was unbalanced by Lava Hounds. I'd venture a guess that a huge majority would say adding Hounds to Th9 perfectly balanced the game there, no ruined it.

[Akkei]

Hey Ash,

I saw your video first, and then this post. I really like your YouTube channel.

I am a th9 with maxed defense (heroes 17/15, but somewhat stalled as I do not raid a lot), warring twice a week. Making the Grand Warden available to th10 would be a difference maker for me. Currently, I see no point to upgrade to th10 as I do not have the time and motivation to raid enough to pay for the numerous th10 upgrades. Realistically, I will never make it to th11 as I do not play enough for that.

That being said, I disagree with your assessment that 3-starring a th9 has become too easy in war. You indicated in your video that you are aware that this is from the point of view of elite players, but that would be only a very small percentage of players.

In my clan, we were never opposed to an elite clan. We see elite players from time to time, but never a clan full of it. We do not find it easy at all to 3-star other th9, even with the extra dark spell. One way to look at it is to say that we are bad, but we win around 60% of our wars. We're not bad; we're average joes. From our experience, the average th9 will 2-star its equal in war. A 3-star against a th9 of equal strength still generates a lot of cheers in my clan. That has not changed since the addition of the extra dark spell.

I am the top th9 in my clan. I am often attacked by th10 and most of the time they 2-star me. When I attack, I very rarely 3-star maxed th9. I have watched the videos (including several of yours), I know this can be done, but I find it extremely difficult. I can clean up and get the third star on an non-maxed th9, but reliably beating maxed th9 still eludes me. I am considered a good player in my clan. I think that the balance level at th9 is fine. You cannot balance the game based on the expectations of elite players in my opinion. If th9 is too easy and boring for elite players, then they can move on to the next level.

Where I agree with you is with th10s. If elite players find it difficult to 3-star th10s, I guess you can suspect how well it goes for average players. I do not believe I have seen a 3-star attack on a th10 yet (for us or against us) in any of the wars I have played in. I have seen videos posted by elite players, so I know this can be done. But I have not seen such an attack in real time. That's not normal. The average th10 player should be able to 3-star his equal once in a while. It should be difficult, but it should be doable.

[Micker99]

If they are going to do this, then do it fast before my th11 finishes, because I'll cancel it. I'm going up to get the GW. There are a million different ways to balance th10 offensively. They don't need to steal the one thing th11 has over them. TH11 would be a joke if they did that, come on think about it.

Imagine if the only difference in offense from th9 to 10 was the aq and you went up to 10 to get it, then they said Oh we are giving it to th9 now, but you still have more levels. Now you have to deal with all these new defenses and only have a higher hero's to deal with all of it.

Balance th10, but do it another way.

[raja1]

Th10 can't be 3 starred, balance it supercell. Th11 can be 3 starred, balance it supercell.

I don't understand why same guy state both of these statements.

[101112131415]

/signed, plus I am subbed

[zombielore]

As I said in the original post, people need to at first look at each Town Hall level in a vacuum before we look at things globally. I have a hunch that many people complaining about Th9s being trampled due to this proposal have, in fact, never been beyond Town Hall 9 to witness the level of imbalance beyond it.

I understand the concern of Town Hall 9s in regards to being trampled in pvp farming by 10s. But that is already happening and that is an entire separate issue with its own merit. I don't think we Town Halls of different levels should have NEARLY the chance at matching in pvp as they currently do. That would much better solve the problem than saying "We're not going to balance Th10 because we're afraid they'll beat up on Th9s more while farming". I don't see the logic in that.

You can't build the 2ND story without a foundation.

Giving the Th10 a Grand Warden is just a short term easy "fix" while throwning Th9 farming/War under the bus.

The reason why there's so much eternal 9s in war is because of the balance, even though you get a huge defense increase you also get huge troop upgrade increases and new troops (Upgrades : Hogs, golem, valks, loons, New troops : Witches and hounds) and the majority of constant successful 3 star strategies against max 9s incorporate at least 2 of theach troops listed above.
Now let's look at 10s, miniscule troop upgrades (1 level of golem, 1 level of hound, 2 levels of Pekka, 1 level of wiz, 1 level of dragons) and some spell upgrades but everything is hugely redundant when there's so much 99 dps towers and inferno while only one of the above mentioned th9 war troops get a noticeable upgrade (the hound).

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's out of balance. If you want to truly "fix" (Supercell most likely intended Th10 to be the trophy pusher Th which would explain why it's so hard to 2 star let alone 3.) Th10 you'd realize either new or upgrades for troops or lowering defense DPS just like the increase for Th9 compared to 8.

(This part is pure speculation and derived from personal experience, prove me wrong if I'm wrong) even if you do give give Th10 the grand warden, it won't change much considering the only real bases that get 3 started by Th10 are the terrible ones (the ones where its really open and Air D are exposed or generic youtube/Internet bases) which if a Th9 used a similar design I can 3 star it without even doing an in depth scout.


Now the war portion of my post over here's the farming/league/multiPlayer part.

I don't really know who you are or what you do but farming for Th9 is quite difficult when you have to save up anywhere from 3 million to 7 million gold or elixir and 100k+ DE, some of us like to be casuals and still progress at an acceptable rate in the game (and maybe dropping some $ only if I feel like giving the game some $, with the current state I'm not going to unless I absolutely must for war purposes.). As a Th10 even though you don't get hit as often or hard as the rest of us with farm armies you also can't really attack fellow 10s with cheap farm armies and still "win" consistently, so what's the next best thin pick on 9s (even though they increased the loot penalty it's offset by the village offering more loot) or go after collector/afk bases, it's far more efficient then raiding other 10s in Champs+.

Just because 10s are trampling 9s are already happening doesn't mean you can just make it worse, the solution for one problem is to not toss someone else under the bus. Here's an analogy (disclaimer all statements made are purely for the analogy purpose), The proposed way to fix the economy (Th10) is to industrialize (give 10s the GW) but a small a side effect it'll pollute more (even more Th9 trampling) of the environment (Th9), look how that turned out for China where the smog is as thick as fog and breathing it will LITERALLY give you cancer.
The governing body (Supercell) choose economy (Th10) or environment (Th9) instead of finding a way to solve the economy (Th10) without endangering or neglecting the environment (Th9)

' "We're not going to balance Th10 because we're afraid they'll beat up on Th9s more while farming". I don't see the logic in that. ', I don't see the logic to why you brought that up, I'm pretty sure no one said they don't want Th10 balanced, people are saying we don't want Th10 fixed by ruining the already delicate Th9s. It seems your so fixated on bring the GW to Th10 you haven't really though about other solutions to fix Th10 without tossing anyone under the bus, some tame specialist suggested lowe inferno DPS, someone else suggested instead of canceling out inferno decrease healing effectiveness, I'm not sure if someone already suggested to give Th10 more troops or better troops or heroes upgrades, there are so much solutions that have been suggested here and about that in my honest opinion are far better then the one you suggested based solely on the reason what their small baby step changes that don't require a leap of faith on a thin sheet of ice.
I mean the GW has Ben out for like what, 1 or 2 weeks on a brand new hero at a brand new Th level, their still making changes to Th11 and your suggestion is taking a great big leap of faith to try and fix Th10.

TL;DR Giving GW is a big leap of faith to try and fix Th10 when there are so many better baby step solutions being suggested.

[Ashlain]

Hey Ash,

I saw your video first, and then this post. I really like your YouTube channel.

I am a th9 with maxed defense (heroes 17/15, but somewhat stalled as I do not raid a lot), warring twice a week. Making the Grand Warden available to th10 would be a difference maker for me. Currently, I see no point to upgrade to th10 as I do not have the time and motivation to raid enough to pay for the numerous th10 upgrades. Realistically, I will never make it to th11 as I do not play enough for that.

That being said, I disagree with your assessment that 3-starring a th9 has become too easy in war. You indicated in your video that you are aware that this is from the point of view of elite players, but that would be only a very small percentage of players.

In my clan, we were never opposed to an elite clan. We see elite players from time to time, but never a clan full of it. We do not find it easy at all to 3-star other th9, even with the extra dark spell. One way to look at it is to say that we are bad, but we win around 60% of our wars. We're not bad; we're average joes. From our experience, the average th9 will 2-star its equal in war. A 3-star against a th9 of equal strength still generates a lot of cheers in my clan. That has not changed since the addition of the extra dark spell.

I am the top th9 in my clan. I am often attacked by th10 and most of the time they 2-star me. When I attack, I very rarely 3-star maxed th9. I have watched the videos (including several of yours), I know this can be done, but I find it extremely difficult. I can clean up and get the third star on an non-maxed th9, but reliably beating maxed th9 still eludes me. I am considered a good player in my clan. I think that the balance level at th9 is fine. You cannot balance the game based on the expectations of elite players in my opinion. If th9 is too easy and boring for elite players, then they can move on to the next level.

Where I agree with you is with th10s. If elite players find it difficult to 3-star th10s, I guess you can suspect how well it goes for average players. I do not believe I have seen a 3-star attack on a th10 yet (for us or against us) in any of the wars I have played in. I have seen videos posted by elite players, so I know this can be done. But I have not seen such an attack in real time. That's not normal. The average th10 player should be able to 3-star his equal once in a while. It should be difficult, but it should be doable.

Hi Akkei!

Your point on Th9 balancing is well received. As you mentioned in your post, I did say in the video that a large portion audience is actually a minority in terms of skill level on a global scale. My proposal at Th9 was (only) an extra level on Hidden Teslas. I know in our clan, which is passionately FairPlay, we have seen our 3 star rate at th9 skyrocket to unprecedented levels (maybe 80%) so I am, in a way, reacting to that. Many feel the challenge has been removed now to a large extent. I can see both sides of the equation, though. Maybe you're right. Maybe Th9 should stay the way it currently is, nudging played towards Th10. Hopefully a properly balanced Th10!

You can't build the 2ND story without a foundation.

Giving the Th10 a Grand Warden is just a short term easy "fix" while throwning Th9 farming/War under the bus.

The reason why there's so much eternal 9s in war is because of the balance, even though you get a huge defense increase you also get huge troop upgrade increases and new troops (Upgrades : Hogs, golem, valks, loons, New troops : Witches and hounds) and the majority of constant successful 3 star strategies against max 9s incorporate at least 2 of theach troops listed above.
Now let's look at 10s, miniscule troop upgrades (1 level of golem, 1 level of hound, 2 levels of Pekka, 1 level of wiz, 1 level of dragons) and some spell upgrades but everything is hugely redundant when there's so much 99 dps towers and inferno while only one of the above mentioned th9 war troops get a noticeable upgrade (the hound).

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's out of balance. If you want to truly "fix" (Supercell most likely intended Th10 to be the trophy pusher Th which would explain why it's so hard to 2 star let alone 3.) Th10 you'd realize either new or upgrades for troops or lowering defense DPS just like the increase for Th9 compared to 8.

(This part is pure speculation and derived from personal experience, prove me wrong if I'm wrong) even if you do give give Th10 the grand warden, it won't change much considering the only real bases that get 3 started by Th10 are the terrible ones (the ones where its really open and Air D are exposed or generic youtube/Internet bases) which if a Th9 used a similar design I can 3 star it without even doing an in depth scout.


Now the war portion of my post over here's the farming/league/multiPlayer part.

I don't really know who you are or what you do but farming for Th9 is quite difficult when you have to save up anywhere from 3 million to 7 million gold or elixir and 100k+ DE, some of us like to be casuals and still progress at an acceptable rate in the game (and maybe dropping some $ only if I feel like giving the game some $, with the current state I'm not going to unless I absolutely must for war purposes.). As a Th10 even though you don't get hit as often or hard as the rest of us with farm armies you also can't really attack fellow 10s with cheap farm armies and still "win" consistently, so what's the next best thin pick on 9s (even though they increased the loot penalty it's offset by the village offering more loot) or go after collector/afk bases, it's far more efficient then raiding other 10s in Champs+.

Just because 10s are trampling 9s are already happening doesn't mean you can just make it worse, the solution for one problem is to not toss someone else under the bus. Here's an analogy (disclaimer all statements made are purely for the analogy purpose), The proposed way to fix the economy (Th10) is to industrialize (give 10s the GW) but a small a side effect it'll pollute more (even more Th9 trampling) of the environment (Th9), look how that turned out for China where the smog is as thick as fog and breathing it will LITERALLY give you cancer.
The governing body (Supercell) choose economy (Th10) or environment (Th9) instead of finding a way to solve the economy (Th10) without endangering or neglecting the environment (Th9)

' "We're not going to balance Th10 because we're afraid they'll beat up on Th9s more while farming". I don't see the logic in that. ', I don't see the logic to why you brought that up, I'm pretty sure no one said they don't want Th10 balanced, people are saying we don't want Th10 fixed by ruining the already delicate Th9s. It seems your so fixated on bring the GW to Th10 you haven't really though about other solutions to fix Th10 without tossing anyone under the bus, some tame specialist suggested lowe inferno DPS, someone else suggested instead of canceling out inferno decrease healing effectiveness, I'm not sure if someone already suggested to give Th10 more troops or better troops or heroes upgrades, there are so much solutions that have been suggested here and about that in my honest opinion are far better then the one you suggested based solely on the reason what their small baby step changes that don't require a leap of faith on a thin sheet of ice.
I mean the GW has Ben out for like what, 1 or 2 weeks on a brand new hero at a brand new Th level, their still making changes to Th11 and your suggestion is taking a great big leap of faith to try and fix Th10.

TL;DR Giving GW is a big leap of faith to try and fix Th10 when there are so many better baby step solutions being suggested.

Hi Zombielore!

Thanks for your thoughts. I don't think I'll get you to see my POV here as you seem to be preoccupied in how it will effect Th9s both in war and matchmaking. I can say this regarding Th10 vs Th9 in war right off the bat: If a Th10 has to drop down to 3 star a Th9 it's almost always a "win" for the defender's clan. So the idea of Th10s being able to easier manhandle Th9s in war is moot IMO.

Regarding pvp/farming, You suggest that adding GW lvl 5 wil provide Th10s with too much ammo and they will now have too heavy of an advantage versus Th9. Then you turn around and suggest additional troops or upgrades for Th10, which would also have the same effect on Th9s you complain about in the first point.

I have a TH11, TH10, and TH9 account so I have a decent "full picture" view of each landscape. I'll stress to you as I did to the developers. You must balance each Town Hall to a realistic level to curb rushing, frustration, and farming woes independently. Then you can move on and examine and fix farming issues on a global scale.

[natan71]

/SIGNED
This is a very good suggestion !

[TheDevilsLuck]

/signed, plus I am subbed

Way to be a part of the problem of agreeing with someone because you like them rather than thinking for yourself.