Loot, League Bonuses and Trophy Offers <-- Discuss it HERE!

[Adevati]

First off, for a new forumer, great post. Much better than the monstrosity we had yesterday that predicted 80% of people had to quit to sustain the economy.

And all your points are valid. While I don't think the economy will "crash" in any scenario, I do believe there will be less loot.

That being said, your first point about new players remaining unchanged isn't entirely correct. This new update will guve SC a boost in sales. More money = more advertising. As SC advertises more, we could see waves of new players. How many of those new players will be "casual" and generate more resources than they use? We don't know.

As for league bonuses, I farm in M1-3. I use cheap armies and always net more in bonuses than my army. I very rarely use spells, and havent used a hero in over 2 months. I concentrate on getting 50% win and 1 or 2 storages and I'm done. With the changes, even though forumers are rebellious and predict mad rush to gold/silver, I believe the higher leagues become more populated. No data to back that, just an opinion. Also, as you can see from the base design forum, there is a mad rush to design well protected bases with easier free buildings. A 50% win will become easier than it is now on tough bases (it will be on my new base).

Now if everyone DOES rush to lower leagues, we could have a problem. But hardly a full scale crash. Just even more competition for the available loot.

Many people believe the economy already crashed which brought on the elixir for walls and those random 1 gem bonuses. Forum sentiments were that loot was awful and the game was failing. From my perspective, I didn't notice much and still kept all builders busy non-stop. So, if another economic downturn happened, it will likely hit the low/weak/rushed folks the hardest. SC will probably make a change before the higher THs feel the effect.

[AeroCloud]

I'm not sure about everyone in this game, but coming from concerned players who LOVE clash and are trying to make sure it stays afloat.

I would like to see a statement from SuperCell showing how these changes to the overall economy won't break the game for a majority of players.

Would it be too hard for them to articulate how this could/would work?

What would be the problem with explaining the REAL reasons why you are making these changes, instead of the Bull ♥♥♥♥ you are feeding people to make your agenda feel like a benefit to the game, when its just a quick cheap shot at increasing your temporary income.

I'm sure supercell already has the fixes for these economy issues ready to go, however they want to milk EVERY gemmer who is in such a rush to max TH11 before they do so.

Why would they ensure the overall economy works from the start of this patch?
Would that promote gem spending?

Does supercell really think that people are going to gem when things get too tough to progress?
Gemming should come from an enhanced game play, not from a "you must gem to survive" game play.

To me this is very disappointing if SuperCell does not ADDRESS these issues before they release something like this. If they release it, and even if they fix it after time... This will change some peoples views of how supercell chooses to do business.

Honestly, everything they are putting into the game is countering their argument to increase strategy. This update forces the weaker players(not lower TH's but weaker in the form of attacks) to farm collectors or never progress and quit. This update forces more Lootless bases to stay in Queue and increases time/nexting costs per person. This update reduces the overall loot injected into the economy. This update reduces the amount of time a player can play. This update reduces the amount of overall strategies people can use in multiplayer. This update forces players to spend more time in the game or else you will be unable to ever max your base in your lifetime.

I don't know about you, but how many other games out there would love to see you progress in their game? You know what happens to greedy companies, they milk their cows to death. Eventually the cows stop producing milk because all the other farm animals have left the farm.

[MK1WI]

Jonas has been vastly misquoted about 80%. He said certain leagues have as much as 80%, not all leagues.

I don't disagree that TH sniping adds a ton to the economy. However, it also sequesters a great deal from the economy. As Jonas mentioned, at the price of 1000 gold and elixir, you can remove 400k each (my loot available at the moment is over 1 million combined). The player can use and spend this at their leisure, thus removing the money from the economy. In the end, which removes more: removing an attack that add a few thousand to a few hundred thousand resources or removing the ability to shelter 600k-1 million resources?

I think this new scheme will benefit everyone, though it will require changes to attacking for some

To be fair Jonas said certain leagues first and then across the board when Patrick asked to about a specific league so you could say we are misinformed versus him being misquoted and it is also why I phrased it as if what they say is true. But that is neither here nor there as its largely just semantics.

Secondly I said this new system should be better as it makes bases like yours more readily available for attack and also closed with acknowledging that TH snipes are not good for the game. But under this new system creating a better shell game of resources doesn't actually help the economy sustain itself since it is not helping to create the supply. Snipes didn't remove loot from the game it just hid it. Snipes do however create a significant portion of the supply for the economy. In the end or very long run, if this loss of supply isn't accounted for, snipes will be missed greatly. Its simple economics.

[Tchoa]

Okay,
so with this new table, we all know how many trophies we will win, in each leagues:



Perfect !

But several friends went thru +0 trophy won defenses (Titan 2 / Titan 1).
(Note for Dev: The attacker sometime loose 1 trophy)

Is this update will correct this no sense too ?
Could we have the same table, but about the Defense side please ?

[Ajax]

Jonas has been vastly misquoted about 80%. He said certain leagues have as much as 80%, not all leagues.

No he didn't, he said "levels", not leagues.

He then said "no it is across the board" when asked if that was at Titan league

I don't disagree that TH sniping adds a ton to the economy. However, it also sequesters a great deal from the economy. As Jonas mentioned, at the price of 1000 gold and elixir, you can remove 400k each (my loot available at the moment is over 1 million combined). The player can use and spend this at their leisure, thus removing the money from the economy. In the end, which removes more: removing an attack that add a few thousand to a few hundred thousand resources or removing the ability to shelter 600k-1 million resources?

Your question is meaningless, since they are both happening together, and the second is a direct consequence of the first.

But assuming you actually meant "NOT removing" for the second case (i.e. what would happen to loot without this change), then:

The former.

The first of those removes loot from the system, in that it is no longer being generated.

The second doesn't remove anything, it just prevents other players from getting at it directly.

I think this new scheme will benefit everyone, though it will require changes to attacking for some

It will only benefit everyone if there is additional loot generated from some other source to replace that lost.

[Ajax]

Okay,
so with this new table, we all know how many trophies we will win, in each leagues:



Perfect !

But several friends went thru +0 trophy won defenses (Titan 2 / Titan 1).
(Note for Dev: The attacker sometime loose 1 trophy)

I don't believe there has ever been a circumstance where an attacker has got a star and lost a trophy. THere was always a minimum offer of 1 trophy on attack.

[Ajax]

I'm not sure about everyone in this game, but coming from concerned players who LOVE clash and are trying to make sure it stays afloat.

I would like to see a statement from SuperCell showing how these changes to the overall economy won't break the game for a majority of players.

Would it be too hard for them to articulate how this could/would work?

What would be the problem with explaining the REAL reasons why you are making these changes, instead of the Bull ♥♥♥♥ you are feeding people to make your agenda feel like a benefit to the game, when its just a quick cheap shot at increasing your temporary income.

I didn't bother reading beyond that point, since that paragraph invalidates anything else you might have said.

[Fury8]

I may just be missing something overall and fully understand that the phrase "wait and see" can fully be applied here, but I just wanted to get my thoughts out there and ask for some feed back.

SC says that farming will be easier after this update and in theory it should be, until the economy dries up and there is very little to farm.

Now what makes me say that? I am talking about loot generation. Forget collector/storage raids when discussing the state of the economy. Those raids are just a shell game moving loot from base to base until an upgrade is performed and then it is removed from the economy as a whole.

What help keeps the balance of that loss to the economy is loot generation and how it is generated in the game.

• Mines and Pumps (Collectors) - Currently unchanged and at a constant rate
• Clan Wars - Largely just gold generation with minimal elixir and at a variable rate based on level of success
• League Bonuses - Will be increased with this update but also will be percentage based. Final result unknown.

The topic I want to focus mainly on is League Bonuses and Town Hall snipes as a form of loot generation.

(And for my example I will be using 10 attacks per day, 1 hour per army build time, and the Crystal 2 bonus since it is listed in the middle of the league list. I do not know what league the average player is located in as I do not have access to this data and thought using C2 would be safe for this example.)

Under the current system of free shield with Town Hall snipe if a player attacks 10 times using their army and gets sniped 10 times in return that is 1 million ([50k gold + 50k elixer] x10 attacks) in total free loot that was generated in to the system from the snipes alone.

Under the new system (without knowing new percentage based bonus system and using current system) a player can attack 10 times breaking their shield 4 times exposing their base for attack. Assuming a successful attack against each time, only generated 400k loot into the system.

However that isn't completely accurate. Under the current system most snipes happen though the use of the King and/or Queen or an insignificant amount of barbs, archers, and/or minions thus generating "free" loot into the system. Under the new system they will need to bring some sort of army with them to obtain at least 50% or Town Hall destruction thus removing loot from the economy in the form army cost. Assuming a TH8 BArch army (45k in cost) for a low end attack the new system only will have only generated 220k of new loot into the system. For an average attack with at least 1 spell going forward the army cost will be 100k+. This means that at best you the economy will break even in terms of loot generation, but more often than not will see a loss in the economy.

Why should this be seen as a significant problem? If what SuperCell said is true and that 80% of attacks on average across all leagues were snipes (http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...-Pat-Interview) that is a lot of loot that is no longer being generated for free and without knowing new bonus system, could actually have a negative overall effect on they economy.

I'm not saying town hall snipes are good for the game at all, but based on current Sneak Peeks and admittedly without fully knowing the new bonus system, I do not see where this loss of loot is made up in the game and could easily see this snowballing into another loot crisis similar to the one the community saw a year or two ago. If it does happen again, hopefully SuperCell will be quicker to acknowledge the issue and make changes needed.

Get some stats like I did here in m2. http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...ing-stats-dump

The median was 4.5 attack wins per day. Only a small minority of players did a lot of sniping - accounting for a disproportionate amount of sniping activity. I doubt the loot spread far from them as they would in turn get a free shield or spend it.

[Tchoa]

I don't believe there has ever been a circumstance where an attacker has got a star and lost a trophy. THere was always a minimum offer of 1 trophy on attack.

Was not speaking about attacking.... But defending :-)

[Ajax]

Was not speaking about attacking.... But defending :-)

So why did you say "(Note for Dev: The attacker sometime loose 1 trophy)". ?