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Thread: Collecting all War Base Building Rules/Guidelines Compilation List

  1. #1
    Super Member akiyume's Avatar
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    Post Collecting all War Base Building Rules/Guidelines Compilation List

    Hello clashers, akiyume here

    After writing my [Town Hall 9 War Base Building Concepts] page, I figured that it's only targeted towards the advance war base builders audience, and I don't really have a page showing the "beginners concepts and ideas" because of the fact that these things are so second nature to us at the top. Problem is the fact that what is understood as the foundation of base building for war (ex. Town Hall location doesn't matter) which is second nature to us, might not be so apparent to those that never built a war base before.


    EDIT, Official Page: http://akiyume.weebly.com/war-base-b...ines-list.html








    So what the title says, I'm collecting all information with regards to War Base Building (mostly for TH9, but it could work for TH8 and for sure TH10s), and I want to compile it all into one package for any beginner/intermediate/advance War base designer to look at. I want all the resources/information even the smallest things (like Town Hall isn't important) to the most complex ideas (like double tesla by a wizard tower that's not close to AD) will all be made into one "master list" so that any serious/starter learning how to build a war base would be able to refer to it. Please make it solely on base building comments/rules/guidelines, as this is for builders of war. I'll be reviewing and selecting some of them, so sorry if they don't show up on the list. If there ay any that doesn't really apply to the public or is too pausible and not useable, they probably won't be added. Of course I'm going to put everything into a single page of my website once it gets big but for now please help and contribute!


    I'm going to organize it based on Beginner/Intermediate/Advance levels (for now), and maybe separate it by two categories, (design and concept), or it could be based of the [Division and Stage of TH9 War Base] it is in when it comes to my base building Legend. It'll maybe change later on for how I organized this. We'll see how much we can separate it.

    Examples that are good, informative and gives facts:

    Beginner
    - a Centralized Clan Castle (design)
    - Centralized town hall with quad Tesla is not for war (concept)
    - Town Hall locate doesn't matter (concept)

    Intermediate
    - bases that are symmetrical in wall design are worse and easy to crack (concept)
    - double seeking air mine beside AD to kill Lava hound (design)

    Advance
    - double seeking on the AD opposite of the Queen (design)
    - Queen has an "island" so that there is an investment if they want to kill it (concept/design)



    Not so helpful examples:
    - needs to be anti-hog (how?)
    - Use all of your walls well (lol, wut)
    - Make sure there are no spaces between traps so that they can't use a barb to trigger all traps inbetween (alittle too obvious...)
    - Holowiwi is an attack that works on bases

    Just treat the reader as a person who has been in war and starting to learn how to Hog and been in about 15+ wars. Their basic understanding of base should be decent.


    Note: Some Ideas are situational/doesn't apply to everything.

    TL;DR version: Give me ideas/concepts/designer tips for war base so I can make a out of it list. Any level of ideas work, but check if it's already on the list. If possible, have external sources/link to illustrate or show the idea would be the best.




    I'll start with a list here, and once I get enough, I'll make an organized version with what is here along with any appropriate click-able references in order to illustrate it better. I'll see if I can also provide a "creates/provided by -person-" as well... maybe some things would be "mandatory" in all bases or some that are "optional".

    Need to make a legend soon....

    Legend
    Mandatory - should apply to 99% of all bases and should be followed all the time
    Staple - currently in use and is commonly used in war all the time
    Recommended - is something that is well thought out and should be used in a base
    Optional - is a good point but doesn't really need to be used, depending on base
    Useable - it's a feasible point but doesn't apply to all bases, use it if you want
    Debatable - it's controversial and some people might disagree with the point, but doesn't mean it's not good
    Specialized - it's a good point but only applies to small percentages of bases and works for specific scenarios

    Just because it's a staple (meaning it's used in all TH9 War bases in top tier) doesn't mean it's mandatory. There could be another breakthrough in placement of Queen location for example and doesn't have to be offset. Mandatory means it MUST be kept true no matter what (like springs between defenses and not between storages).




    Eric's Base Building Guidelines
    Giving him a small section of his own since I took this from him without asking, and all of these points in the guidelines are made by him.

    - wizard towers
    • avoid giving up WT on the initial drop (optional)
    • paired WT are extremely effective (specialized)
    • have WT engage troops as soon as they jump over the first layer of wall (debatable)
    • - move offset AQ using at least 3 point defense to protect her (recommended/staple)

    -teslas

    • have at least 2+ teslas close together in a base (recommended)
    • if possible, avoid having teslas overlap ADs (debatable)
    • avoid giving up teslas on the initial drop (recommended)



    -AD

    • avoid having ALL 4 ADs on one half of the base; try and protect AQ with an AD from dragons(recommended)
    • have ADs targetable from AQ walk; 4+ tiles behind a wall (debatable)
    • if possible, have one cover another (recommended)
    • ADs should NOT cover every defense. Ideally all 4 ADs cover 70% of the base (recommended/optional/debatable)


    -Air Sweeper

    • Do not have sweepers cover ADs, a sweeper blowing on a hound does nothing (recommended/optional)
    • have your air sweeper cover your WT/Tesla instead (recommended)


    - Giant Bombs

    • every base should have least least 1 DGB, the more compact a base, the more reason for 2 DGB (recommended)
    • DGB should be behind 3 defenses minimum. 3 or 4 defenses is ideal (mandatory/recommended)
    • AQ cannot snipe defenses guarding DGB (recommended)
    • DGB cannot be too deep in the base (debateable/specialized)
    • Every GB should take 20+ space to trip, 4 hogs or 3 and a giant. (debatable, specialized)


    - BK
    • Lv20+ BK? recommend put away from AQ to kill Hogs (debatable/recommended)
    • <20 BK? have him guard AQ (debatable/recommended)




    Credits:

    I probably won't label each and every concept, but I will put in the credit list down below

    akiyume (me), Eric/Edgolfer, M4XTheGreat, Carsonel, Sservis




    Feel free to debate if there should be any that is/should be removed,moved to another area, or not correct.

    If there are ANY source of videos, guides, or forum threads (not just "This is my base which is good by..." or advertisement) that is well deserve for describing points, post it here.
    Last edited by akiyume; November 25th, 2015 at 05:15 AM.

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  4. #4
    Senior Member M4XTheGreat's Avatar
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    What about something like:

    Make sure your base has good A.I. pathing for the general troops people use in your league/level of play. That's pretty basic, but many people mess up on the concept and then get the design wrong. I'm not a base builder so I can not have that much helpful input but the base should be designed to complicate and confuse the attacker, making sure to reflect common attacks, such as: Goho, Laloon, Golaloon, GoWiPe, GoWiWi, GoWiVa, etc etc.


    TH9 - LVL 107 | My Progression Thread
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  5. #5
    Super Member akiyume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M4XTheGreat View Post
    What about something like:

    Make sure your base has good A.I. pathing for the general troops people use in your league/level of play. That's pretty basic, but many people mess up on the concept and then get the design wrong. I'm not a base builder so I can not have that much helpful input but the base should be designed to complicate and confuse the attacker, making sure to reflect common attacks, such as: Goho, Laloon, Golaloon, GoWiPe, GoWiWi, GoWiVa, etc etc.
    Well, it's alittle hard to translate that for base builders, but I do understand what you are saying though. Can't really tell a rookie/going to be decent base builders to "build a base design that confuses attacker". I'll add in the points under "Intermediate" since it's still alittle advanced. First you need to recognize what is the requirement of the base (are you going for anti-2 star or 3 star) as well as the fact that position of the base would be important. But designing it to be confusing branches out into other areas such as sectioning which needs more elaboration, thanks though

    Added
    - recognize the key types of attacks in the current 3-star attacks in the meta, and their qualities: such as Goho, Lavaloon, Quad-Quake Hero [as of Nov 2015] (mandatory)

  6. #6
    Senior Member M4XTheGreat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by akiyume View Post
    Well, it's alittle hard to translate that for base builders, but I do understand what you are saying though. Can't really tell a rookie/going to be decent base builders to "build a base design that confuses attacker". I'll add in the points under "Intermediate" since it's still alittle advanced. First you need to recognize what is the requirement of the base (are you going for anti-2 star or 3 star) as well as the fact that position of the base would be important. But designing it to be confusing branches out into other areas such as sectioning which needs more elaboration, thanks though

    Added
    - recognize the key types of attacks in the current 3-star attacks in the meta, and their qualities: such as Goho, Lavaloon, Quad-Quake Hero [as of Nov 2015] (mandatory)
    no problem dude, just trying to help


    TH9 - LVL 107 | My Progression Thread
    WhiskeyBusiness - #P8RYR298
    "Success is not final, failure is not fatal; it is the courage to continue that counts."
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  7. #7
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    Breaking some misconceptions:

    A few anti 3 bases don't have centralized CCs to control where and when the CC troops come out since virtually all TH9 attackers don't lure anymore. And if it's topped with say 30 archers, it's a lot of investment to pull and kill wasting a lot of time especially for a fresh attack.

    Town Hall location does matter due to how much HP it has. It's an excellent tank- think of it as a larger, bulkier storage. Some designs throw out the TH just because 'it doesn't have value' but in fact its a great time waster for say enemy heroes to buy time while the golems die off.

    Reddit Troopers is well known for their tough symmetrical anti-3 designs and OneHive have started to adopt that style as well. It goes back and forth in attacking/defending mentality, similar with offset CCs and queens. The thing you should definitely avoid is quarter-symmetry, as an attack such as a queen walk would use it to their advantage (if the queen goes the wrong way it wouldn't matter).

    Other stuff:

    A good way to fully utilize concepts and mechanics in a base is to place your buildings first and your walls second. A lot of beginners start of with their walls (like how some approach building a four-way symmetrical farming base) and their placements and concepts get modified and sometimes rendered useless. A good example of this would be spring traps which are sometimes placed a few tiles off where two defenses are bunched side by side and hogs would simply avoid it.

    Also, a good tip for building queen islands is to try and keep some/most storages outside the queens radius as their purpose as a tank is defeated when the enemy heroes get in range, ignore the storages and head straight into the base.

    Bases don't have to necessarily need a working DGB especially if it can be reached with a KS. If you can have four singles, a tesla killzone and grouped WTs you can potentially outnumber the amount of heals an attacker has depending how distributed/concentrated the 'anti-hog zones' are.

    It's impossible to defend against every type of attacking strategy even if the evolution of these strategies continue developing- look to stop maybe 2 main attacks (largely GoHo and GoLaloon) and have mechanics to some extent to prevent other one phase strategies (suicide dragons/king, queen zap, etc)

    I'll add more to this over time I guess
    Last edited by DokuganR; November 3rd, 2015 at 06:18 AM.
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  8. #8
    Senior Member TheLegendd's Avatar
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    For gbs i like to always have at least a double but having 4 singles perfectly placed with a high dps section ( like some teslas and wiz towers ) can be really tough to breakdown
    And a great tip is to be innovative with the dgbs shape..i mean dont stick to the standard dgbs ( linear between 2 defenses ) cz its not everytime effective...there are new shapes for dgbs and the one between 3 defenses is the most effective dgbs in my opinion
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  9. #9
    Super Member akiyume's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DokuganR View Post
    Breaking some misconceptions:

    A few anti 3 bases don't have centralized CCs to control where and when the CC troops come out since virtually all TH9 attackers don't lure anymore. And if it's topped with say 30 archers, it's a lot of investment to pull and kill wasting a lot of time especially for a fresh attack.
    Well, that's for the general Elite TH9 War clans when it comes to clan castles, which is why instead of putting (Mandatory) beside that point, I put it as (Staple/Recommended) since the fact that I know that the current meta isn't really as focused as making it unlurable anymore.

    Town Hall location does matter due to how much HP it has. It's an excellent tank- think of it as a larger, bulkier storage. Some designs throw out the TH just because 'it doesn't have value' but in fact its a great time waster for say enemy heroes to buy time while the golems die off.
    Yeah, I wrote that wrong. I was stating it based off of a comparison between the newbie base builder who centralize the importance of Town Hall compared to War's importance of Town Hall. I agree with what you say about Town Hall and it's usage and definitely a good HP tank.

    Reddit Troopers is well known for their tough symmetrical anti-3 designs and OneHive have started to adopt that style as well. It goes back and forth in attacking/defending mentality, similar with offset CCs and queens. The thing you should definitely avoid is quarter-symmetry, as an attack such as a queen walk would use it to their advantage (if the queen goes the wrong way it wouldn't matter).
    O.O.... -scribbles it down-, Yeah this is something I would love to talk about and hear people gossip alot. But it's hard to get into these types of discussion but this is something I would love to talk to someone who is in the top league about... I'm still not in the loop and I have to scavage all these info. second hand sources so it's tough OTL. Tell me more Please (i'm serious, I love these talks).


    Other stuff:

    A good way to fully utilize concepts and mechanics in a base is to place your buildings first and your walls second.

    A lot of beginners start of with their walls (like how some approach building a four-way symmetrical farming base) and their placements and concepts get modified and sometimes rendered useless. A good example of this would be spring traps which are sometimes placed a few tiles off where two defenses are bunched side by side and hogs would simply avoid it.
    This is what I personally do, but I actually never seen a base builder's recorded start of a base so I'm not going to really limit those that start with walls first their whole building career which they make very good bases then because of what I wrote, change their style and start from scratch again. This is what I was conflict about whether or not to add in this point.

    Also, a good tip for building queen islands is to try and keep some/most storages outside the queens radius as their purpose as a tank is defeated when the enemy heroes get in range, ignore the storages and head straight into the base.

    Bases don't have to necessarily need a working DGB especially if it can be reached with a KS. If you can have four singles, a tesla killzone and grouped WTs you can potentially outnumber the amount of heals an attacker has depending how distributed/concentrated the 'anti-hog zones' are.
    This is a super-'specialized' type of base building idea/concept which is even hard to pull off for the advance base builders, but it is a good point. Problem with this is that most likely you need to be the super expert of the expert base builders in order to pull this point off and/or the base needs to have this option in mind from the very beginning which is hard to pull off. It is a good point though.


    It's impossible to defend against every type of attacking strategy even if the evolution of these strategies continue developing- look to stop maybe 2 main attacks (largely GoHo and GoLaloon) and have mechanics to some extent to prevent other one phase strategies (suicide dragons/king, queen zap, etc)
    Yeah... with all the new types of attacks/combination going on, it's impossible to defend against everything with so much restrictions (I even had a small rant in the Base Building Journal thread xD). Thanks for the valuable information, i'll see what I can change/add.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by akiyume View Post
    Well, that's for the general Elite TH9 War clans when it comes to clan castles, which is why instead of putting (Mandatory) beside that point, I put it as (Staple/Recommended) since the fact that I know that the current meta isn't really as focused as making it unlurable anymore.
    Fair enough. Some clans are running 30 archer/goblins lol, the goblins especially does a lot of damage to golems. Basically a PEKKA but with a lower susceptibility to poison (TH10s don't carry poison as far as I know though).

    Quote Originally Posted by akiyume View Post
    O.O.... -scribbles it down-, Yeah this is something I would love to talk about and hear people gossip alot. But it's hard to get into these types of discussion but this is something I would love to talk to someone who is in the top league about... I'm still not in the loop and I have to scavage all these info. second hand sources so it's tough OTL. Tell me more Please (i'm serious, I love these talks).
    I wouldn't consider myself as being in the loop either lol, I'll PM you some in the RT family who's on the forums as well and some other info as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by akiyume View Post
    This is what I personally do, but I actually never seen a base builder's recorded start of a base so I'm not going to really limit those that start with walls first their whole building career which they make very good bases then because of what I wrote, change their style and start from scratch again. This is what I was conflict about whether or not to add in this point.
    Me neither, but you could always ask around and see how other war base designers start with their bases. I'm not in contact with any avid designers but I'm sure you would have a few
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