The X.5 Methodology

[Pete82]

What is my TH1 with all offense maxed? It just has a lvl 1 cannon. a TH0.5 base?

Also, what is my Th6 called with only a level 1 cannon and all offense maxed?

Although I realize you are trying to be cute, this would actually be a fun discussion.

[Xitra]

What the? The really good guide got merged? I understand compiling the same topic, but the one it got merged into is a TERRIBLE explanation of X.5. The guy basically gave the benefits of rushing and now a lot of really good advice is lost in the middle likely never to be seen.

I was wondering how my reply on page 3 ended up on page 9.

Maybe they could have merged all the lame .5 complaint discussions into one, but they should have left the one that was actually attempting (and mostly succeeding) to get a useful discussion going. Can they unmerge? Probably not at this point, right?

[Yoyobuae]

Again I added all the war win bonus of the my clan VS the enemy clan, results: 6510000 VS 6252000
There's around a 4% relative difference between the two values. I got a similar result in a past war as well.

So it seems war matchmaking system is purposely trying to match the total war win bonus together as closely as possible. But guess what? War win bonus is influenced by defense not offense.

[ThePeskyDingo]

Although I realize you are trying to be cute, this would actually be a fun discussion.

I actually am not trying to be cute.... I do have a base where I am neglecting ALL defense...

I really am curious to what the almighty coiners of the term ".5" would coin my base though.

[Harrisman24]

I actually am not trying to be cute.... I do have a base where I am neglecting ALL defense...

Called defenseless. Not for the faint hearted.

[Noir12]

I am trying .5 with my alt account. Its the bottom of the heap currently in War.

As far as giving up the 3 star, that's a wash being the bottom base. But trying to get myself an opponent I can 3 star is pretty much my hope.

I've been maxing traps and upgrading walls. The traps seem a particularly good investment, they allow you to seem weaker while packing a few wild cards into a base.

Pretty much blows up attack 2 since traps are revealed, but holding off one attack when at the bottom is good.

As far as drawing a good opponent I'd say results are mixed. Initially it was a tough go for sure. Being a maxed Th7 I seemed unlikely to draw a th7 as a counterpart.

But it does seem help help draw a fellow 7.5 (8.5... not sure here, I am Th8 with my alt) .5 base. When it works, its nice. When it doesn't it makes the sacrifices to be that a pain. I had forgotten how slow offense advances when compared to defense.

If in a health clan I'd recommend taking a month off and just focusing on offense/walls/traps, but that is me.

Thanks for replying, Nio! And an interesting post indeed..

If you have a TH8 and are attempting the X.5, you would count as a 7.5. This is not familiar to me at all, I am sorry to say. The dynamics at 7.5 would be very different from 8, and as there isn't much information available regarding it, I can't really respond with authority.

However, I will venture that being a 7.5 does not seem to be as beneficial, because the primary need for 8.5 or 9.5 is the sheer number of clans who have substantial numbers of TH9s and 8s active in Clan Wars and teching up. Clans with higher level players tend to be more devoted to the clan war game that's increasingly competitive. At TH7, everything gets drag-bombed for an easy 3* or smashed in the regular game. I would simply go with a standard form of upgrading to at least mitigate the loss of resources in the farm game. Also bear in mind that new SAM traps and the extra AD shut down drag-bombing in most cases, so I would build them as soon as possible. TH8 (not 7.5) is where clan wars really begins, I would say, and hence, the X.5 strategies.

I wonder how much perceived benefit the player is getting by holding his ranking in the clan low versus real benefit to the clan by making the war more winnable. I assume in most clans you are compared to the clan members around your ranking on the war map and a player whose offensive is much more developed than there defense is going to appear better than they really are.

If you end up on the war map at #20 and can easily 3 star your mirror while your mirror struggle to 2 star you, you are going to seem like a hero but if the offense means you really counted more like #15 and everyone above you got a harder war because of it are you really helping the clan?

I think it is impossible to say without more details of how much offense really matters to match making but I am suspicious as it certainly benefits the player and assuming supercell has the matchmaking right will not benefit the clan.

Thank you the response Sbauer9. I want to begin by saying that attacking mirror against mirror is not necessarily the best method. The X.5 method asks the player to be very cognizant of attacking strategies and to complement their clan.

As for the questions over MMR caused by offensive upgrades: simply put, yes, they do weigh into the MMR, but (and it's a big but) they are nowhere near the weight that new Xbows or Inferno Towers would bring into the formula. So, in essence, you are slightly buffing your MMR for the sake of offensive power, in order to have a shot at 3* THs around your level, or at least minimizing the chances of getting THs which you cannot even 2*. It can be a gamble but advocates would say it's a smart one. And if you're lucky and the THs above or below you are excellent attackers, you have more wiggle-room to attack lower than your mirror.

I think that taking 8.5 to the extreme is a wee bit of "gaming the system". Maxing out heroes and walls before starting a single defensive upgrade, while maxing out all war offense (including research) is comparable to people that do defenseless accounts.

However, a smart .5 approach isn't gaming the system, it's just smart. At TH9, you can have two level 1 X-Bows in the first week, and two maxed (for TH9) X-Bows in the first month. Those X-Bows are going to count as about half of the defensive power available for a TH9, but cost a small fraction of the upgrade time.

However, the minimum time to max out lavaloonion is 35 days, and that's if you don't upgrade your farming troops first (which I personally would). The time to max out golems and witches is even longer. So to max out either of your 3* armies takes longer than the time it takes to make your MMR place you in the path of those same 3* armies.

Ideally, to be "fair", you'd want to get that 3* army at about the same time that you'll be facing it, which means you want to upgrade your defenses a little slower than your offense. X-Bows probably need to wait at least a couple weeks. However, you'll also want at least a few wars to practice that 3* army on a somewhat weaker (not weak, just weaker) opponent. Otherwise, you'll have yourself an expensive 1* strat.

Thank you for your response, Xitra. It's good to see more information about 8.5. Judging from your information, especially the length of time in maxing lavaloon, I'm again shown that 8.5 is more of a challenge than 9.5 is. I tried to hold off of speaking extensively on 8.5 because unlike 9.5, there's a fairly wide range of research needing upgrades, all of which are crucial to 3* strategies.

I agree that you can take things too far. Maxing out heroes and offence before touching any defence is quite a feat, and I commend anyone trying it for their determination, but does seem extreme. Not in a moral sense, though--I wouldn't place them in the same tier as the MinMaxers. If they're willing to suffer the consequences of having no new defences for an extended period of time, I think they're allowed it. Now, we could open this up to ask about new wall levels, and the introduction of double double-giant bombs. Maybe they're enough to hold off some attacks without x-bows? As long as you make more stars for your clan than you lose, I'd say it's worth it.

TH9 is an exciting time in Clan Wars, because of the options you have, the warbases you encounter, and the possibility of 3*ing every TH9 you encounter with ample troops and heroes. That said, I agree with you absolutely, that the person heading into 8.5 will have to decide early on which path they'll want to take. Personally, the TH9 strategies I favoured were GoLaloon, LoGoWiWi (loons with GoWiWi) and GoHog. These strategies needed a strong presence from heroes, so they won't be of much help to 8.5 unfortunately.

If others could chime in on the 8.5 situation, that'd be fantastic.

[sbauer9]

Again I added all the war win bonus of the my clan VS the enemy clan, results: 6510000 VS 6252000
There's around a 4% relative difference between the two values. I got a similar result in a past war as well.

So it seems war matchmaking system is purposely trying to match the total war win bonus together as closely as possible. But guess what? War win bonus is influenced by defense not offense.

How do you know war bonus is just defense? Makes sense but dont see how you know. I doesnt seem to be just defense as they are not always in order, I have seen many times where a rushed th 10 will be ranked below the top 9 but be worth more war loot. Maybe it is recalculated on war day but maybe th th lvl matters for loot but not for ranking.

[Yoyobuae]

How do you know war bonus is just defense? Makes sense but dont see how you know. I doesnt seem to be just defense as they are not always in order, I have seen many times where a rushed th 10 will be ranked below the top 9 but be worth more war loot. Maybe it is recalculated on war day but maybe th th lvl matters for loot but not for ranking.

Simply, position is calculated before prep day starts, war win bonus is calculated when battle day starts. Players can change their base during that period of time, upgrades can finish, new defenses build, etc.

[Xitra]

Again I added all the war win bonus of the my clan VS the enemy clan, results: 6510000 VS 6252000
There's around a 4% relative difference between the two values. I got a similar result in a past war as well.

So it seems war matchmaking system is purposely trying to match the total war win bonus together as closely as possible. But guess what? War win bonus is influenced by defense not offense.

Forgive my ignorance, but how do you see how much your clan's bases are worth, in terms of bonus loot? I don't know that I've ever seen it listed, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?

[Yoyobuae]

Forgive my ignorance, but how do you see how much your clan's bases are worth, in terms of bonus loot? I don't know that I've ever seen it listed, but maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?

Method 1: Watch the replay of an attack on the base, the available loot should be 6 times less than actual war win bonus (once you correct for loot penalty, if attacker is higher TH level than defender).

Method 2: Scout base and add up loot in storages for one resource type (don't forget TH as well). The resulting number should be 6 times less than actual war win bonus.

You can also double check your values using both methods.

For war win bonus on the enemy bases you want to compensate for war bonus extra loot Clan Perk as well. If your clan has 10% war bonus extra loot then you need to divide the displayed war win bonus by 1.1. Then you need to compensate for loot penalty, if your TH is higher than enemy TH you are checking war win bonus for (divide by 0.9 if you are one TH level higher).

Yeah, need to do some maths to get all the numbers right, but it is possible to find out all the info.