I'm flattered, thank you.Originally Posted by Counterpoint
Everyone gets that rushing for offense gets you a better offense sooner. It's kind of "duh, prioritize something, get something (but give up other things, right?)". What no one told me and shocked me is that I have a better defense too. If I can help people understand that you'll be fine on the defensive side of things in Clan Wars, then mission accomplished.
I struggle to find reasons not to rush for offense (and defense).
Sservis; Start Date: 09 Jan 2015What is Rushing?
Sservis , yea you are right, I didnt think that was really a secret either but you articulated it in a really nice way.. for equal play time you have a stronger defence. hell for less play time you have a stronger defenceI think ive read this a few times in other rushers guides but nobody ever really spelled out the numbers how you did.. nice work!
and think about it people, can you 3 star a th 8 as easily as a th 7? no because a TH 8 has an extra air defence so they have 2x the dammage left even after you 3x LS one,
to add to your post as well the Clan castle makes for much stronger defence too! by upgrading your TH and having more buildings its harder to lure troops and by upgrading your clan castle you can hold more... getting stronger troops in a bigger CC makes your base much harder to 3 star and gives the weaker structures (but as pointed out below higher number so equal or greater dammage) more time to fire.. 5 extra archers or having two witches instead of 1 will really make your defence in wars much stronger.
and to be a real jerk ill add the time factor too! at town hall 9 you get many more buildings than a max th 8 so even if you are able to clear all the defences with a loon or dragon attack it will still take a lot more time flying around.. this is valuable time that you may lose a star to since time to attack doesnt increase per th lvl so the time per building actually decreases.. example: at th 8 you have 64 buildings and 3 minutes to attack, thats 2.81 seconds per building you need to kill to 3 star.. now at th 9 you get 73 buildings, this brings you down to 2.57 seconds per building, its a difference of 8.5%... now I didnt factor in the HP of buildings which is also a factor but travel time is one of the things that eats up an attack time the most so based on that and the before mentioned reasons a properly rushed th will almost always be harder than its maxed level down equivelent
Last edited by kmsoji; April 14th, 2015 at 07:28 PM.
You made many valid points. As for reasons not to rush, there are a few that come to mind:
1) rushers tend to max the troops they use. In the future, sc may nerf a troop and buff another less used troop (e.g. hogs and valks, respectively) and you will be stuck with level 1 with said troop, where the maxer may be ready to go with a high end or maxed troop using a new hot strategy.
2) visuals/aethetics. Can't agrue that maxed bases look more bad a$$
3) high end clan recruitment. Many hardcore clans have requirements of "no rushed bases" and/or "combination of lvl 50+ heroes" for example. This a barrier to rushers that some maxers may not have to endure (taking into consideration some clans want maxed TH8s too, not just 9s and 10s)
4) what's the rush? This is one of the best games many people have played in a while. What's the point of getting from point A to point B the absolute fastest, only yo get sick of the game quicker than if you took your time maxing? Some people wanna ride this out as long as they can, with no new mind-blowingly great game on the horizon. Might as well enjoy both the offensive as well as defensive greatness of this game at all TH levels.
5) there's a sense of accomplishment given when you max out bases. It's not for everyone, but for those who enjoy it and for those who are OCD like that, it's a good enough reason to max.
Just throwing out some discussion points. I am fully convinced there's no one absolute right way to play this game, and I've heard fantastic reasons from both extremes that I can respect both types of players and any players in between. Just makes sense to play the way that gives you the most enjoyment.
kimchi, of whozonbeer | TH11 | Lvl147
You made many valid points. As for reasons not to rush, there are a few that come to mind:
1) rushers tend to max the troops they use. In the future, sc may nerf a troop and buff another less used troop (e.g. hogs and valks, respectively) and you will be stuck with level 1 with said troop, where the maxer may be ready to go with a high end or maxed troop using a new hot strategy.
2) visuals/aethetics. Can't agrue that maxed bases look more bad a$$
3) high end clan recruitment. Many hardcore clans have requirements of "no rushed bases" and/or "combination of lvl 50+ heroes" for example. This a barrier to rushers that some maxers may not have to endure (taking into consideration some clans want maxed TH8s too, not just 9s and 10s)
4) what's the rush? This is one of the best games many people have played in a while. What's the point of getting from point A to point B the absolute fastest, only yo get sick of the game quicker than if you took your time maxing? Some people wanna ride this out as long as they can, with no new mind-blowingly great game on the horizon. Might as well enjoy both the offensive as well as defensive greatness of this game at all TH levels.
5) there's a sense of accomplishment given when you max out bases. It's not for everyone, but for those who enjoy it and for those who are OCD like that, it's a good enough reason to max.
Just throwing out some discussion points. I am fully convinced there's no one absolute right way to play this game, and I've heard fantastic reasons from both extremes that I can respect both types of players and any players in between. Just makes sense to play the way that gives you the most enjoyment.
This is a great way to sum it up and end the discussion! I agree its ultimately preference of the player and both strategies have their own Niche and merits! good stuff!
LOL good luck with that one. I gave up on convincing people of super simple things like there's no such thing as loot penalty and you're trying to to get people to believe rushing is GOOD for defense? Not going to happen...
Last edited by Morgauth; April 14th, 2015 at 07:41 PM.
Thank you. I may have to write such a guide, but it's likely to be math heavy and that will cause it to be ignored.Sservis...please stop making such well thought out and educated responses. Rushers are wrong, they just have to be...lol...Actually I would love to see you write an entire thread detailing the efficiency of rushing vs maxing. The more posts we make, which actually explain why rushing is a valid and acceptable way of playing this game, the better. Unfortunately, I don't think maxers will ever stop clumping rushers together with premmies(Th10 with no walls, defense, or offense...), but maybe...who knows
The degree of rushing is a personal choice, from maxer (rusher - 0) to TH.5 (rusher - 1) to Rusher (rusher - 2 or more). The defensive minded premmie is even a rusher (rusher + 1 or more).
Most arguments against rushing have a solid counter which turn the negative into a choice of how you want to play the game. Maxing is a viable play style, slow, steady, savor the sights. I have to keep reminding myself that having only one attack at TH9 is temporary and that the maxer doesn't have any attacks at TH9 until after playing for 7 months or so.
Sservis; Start Date: 09 Jan 2015What is Rushing?
haha Morgauth thats funny and probubly true!
Sservis I would read the math thread! DO IT UP and post a link!
and yes having one attack is better than none right? I guess the ideal balance for a clan of rushers would be for each to focus a different kind of attack, alternate one ground one air, the ground guys would lag behind a bit tho
But... My... Base...
Supercell... Formula...
Rated... Near... Max... TH8...
Three... Months... Played...
Seriously, if they want to say that Supercell's formula for how hard a base is to defeat and where it should rank on the war map isn't all that great, then they aren't arguing with me anymore. They can pound sand with Supercell, it's not going to bother me.
Personally I'd say my base is underrated by Supercell, not overrated. They can check my clan war log and see how my base is doing and notice that it has yet to be three starred by a TH8 through 7 wars, despite ranking under TH8 Max.
Sservis; Start Date: 09 Jan 2015What is Rushing?
Here are my initial thoughts on why these are not a big deal to me. My alt account approach isn't for everyone and I do agree that there is a lot of interesting gameplay at TH6, TH8, TH9, and TH10 (mass dragons at TH7 is too easy/boring)
You're comparing unequal playing time. In 3 months, I have an attack at TH9. The Maxer takes about 7 months to get their first attack to where I am (their [go]holo is very strong TH9 + day 15 with Loon 6/queen/4th spell/220,30 space/etc). However, unless it takes me more than 4 months to level a different attack, I'm still ahead. By the time I reach 7 months played, I'll have multiple armies maxed and be more resilient to gameplay changes.
It's impossible for the rusher to lose this comparison (total lab time is same for both players, and the specialized approach is likely to get to the good stuff sooner than the generalist) unless some of the rusher TH9 upgrades are invalidated and turned into wasted time. To the extent that they don't need every troop upgraded, the rusher may still come out ahead.
ie I may have wasted 10 days on Lava Hound 2 if it's nerfed, while the maxer postpones that upgrade until the end of TH9 and gains ground early in TH9. However, if the new attack doesn't need dragons, I still have saved 17 there, still ahead by 7 net, etc)
I look forward to the day GobHeDraVaPe is a thing (the troops I've skipped and plan to keep skipped)
AQ25 at TH9 is 122.5 days to play off your 50+ heros. That is a minimum of 122.5 days after the maxer reaches TH9 (6-7 months). So they'll have the AQ at the required level no sooner than 10-11 months into playing the game. One of the reasons I rushed was specifically to qualify for top tier guilds sooner without lots and lots of gem usage. It is easier to hit any combined hero mark if you start on it sooner, rather than effectively capping the levels at BK10/AQ0 in TH8 and below.
Alt Accounts. Who says there can be only one?
I do agree that each TH has it's own flavor and missing out is a shame.
I started a bunch of Sservis - # (minus num) accounts shortly after I started. They were targetted to be terminal at different TH level. They're mostly rusher - 2, not quite as extreme as my main, rusher - 3.
I'm going to round a few of them into TH8's, some into TH9's, and a few TH10's or TH11's (it's coming) or maybe they'll all be max at THMAX (Sservis - 8 is about to hit TH7 and didn't stop at TH2) I'm going to keep the lights on and the lab working at least.
I am maxing. I'm aiming my main account to the max at the maximum level of play and my alts to interesting stopping points along the way. I get a little bit of the interesting places as my main shoots past, and more once my alts get there.
Sservis; Start Date: 09 Jan 2015What is Rushing?
I have the same problem.
Made here:http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...Unseen-GFX-GFX
Check profile:http://forum.supercell.net/member.php/663887-domkop
In game name: noahbce|TH 8|Clan: Orange kingdom|Status: farming+war|
Posting Permissions
