Please make Level 4 P.E.K.K.A. available at TH9 and put Queue on spell factory

[EricDeFiesta]

Max Level of P.E.K.K.A. at TH8 is Level 3, TH9 Level 3 also, TH10 Level 5.
I am suggesting that P.E.K.K.A. will be Max Level 4 at TH9.

Spell factory has no queue features wherein the spell factory is full and you have 1 potion queued/creating.

Thank you

[edomingox]

There's nothing wrong with it. In fact, I wish I had never upgraded my PEKKA in the first place. I don't use her. I find other units more suitable.

No queue in spell factory. Just another way to hide loot.

This should of been two separate threads. But I can see why you were lazy about this. You didn't put much thought into these ideas in the first place.

[Xitra]

No. I just said something about this on another thread. We can't queue spells because it would be another way to dump huge amounts of elixir.

Dump? No. Hide? Yes. A significant amount? Hardly. A TH7 reaches their elixir cap at 1,562,500 elixir. They can "hide" 360,000 elixir in barracks, but only if they've upgraded all 4 to level 9. Otherwise, they'll only be hiding 300,000, if they have level 5 wall breakers.

With maxed out rage spells, and assuming they could queue 3 spells (matching the number that can be queued when the spell factory is empty), they could queue 3 level 4 rage spells, for a total of 90,000 more elixir.

So a maxed out TH7 could hide 450,000 elixir. That's not a whole lot. And anyway, players need a way to hide elixir, as it's the thing that funds their armies. If they get all their elixir stolen, they can't war effectively, they can't trophy push effectively, and if they farm with expensive armies, they can't farm effectively. Being able to "hide" enough elixir for one maxed out army is not a bad thing.

That TH7 hits their loot cap at 1,562,500 elixir, so once they reach 2,012,500 elixir (barely more than 50% of their max storage capacity), they'll be offering the max available loot anyway, even if they try to hide the max amount possible in barracks and spell factory.

At TH8 and up, it becomes even less of an issue, because the amount they can hide becomes even more insignificant. Stop crying about something that isn't really a problem.

[Xitra]

There's nothing wrong with it. In fact, I wish I had never upgraded my PEKKA in the first place. I don't use her. I find other units more suitable.

So you don't use the pekka, and regret ever upgrading it? How does that make you at all qualified to judge whether the current situation is fine or not? You could have said there's nothing wrong with it, or you could have said you wished you'd never upgraded your pekkas, and I wouldn't have bothered replying. But saying both together is one step away from trolling, lol!

Anyway, to the OP, there's another discussion about this very suggestion (level 4 pekka at TH9). Here's an excerpt of that discussion. Bottom line, it probably won't happen, because TH9 already has too much troop research compared to TH10. Supercell needs to add more troop research to TH10 before we can discuss moving a "nice to have" research down to TH9.

TH9 already gets 13 troop upgrades (15 if you include unlocking level 1 witches and hounds), while TH10 only gets 12. Taking one of those from TH10 and giving it to TH9 would give TH9 even more troop upgrades and TH10 less.

And as for the "problem" that TH10 gets two levels of PEKKA? Well that's the ONLY troop of which TH10 gets two levels. TH9 already gets two levels of valkyries, two levels of golems, two levels of witches, and two levels of lava hounds. If you only want one level PEKKA per TH, let's also take all the multiples levels of troops from TH9 and give them to other THs as well.

But in my opinion, troop levels are balanced the way they are. If you want TH10 toys, upgrade to TH10.

As an "outside observer" (I'm only TH8), all I can evaluate are the various points of view I see expressed in the forum. The overwhelming consensus I seem to be getting is that air attacks have an edge on ground attacks, at least currently. Lavaloonion was already considered stronger than any ground attack, before they made level 13 cannons available.

So it seems to me like a buff to ground attacks is due. Yes, the game shifts back and forth, so air attacks will rule for a season, then ground attacks.

Anyway, it seems to me like giving level 4 pekkas to TH9, from a game balance perspective, is a good move. It wouldn't be OP. It would add variety.

But, badfish brings up a good point. It seems like there is a reasonable balance in the amount of research (number of upgrades, cumulative time) at both TH levels. According to the wiki:
http://clashofclans.wikia.com/wiki/Cumulative_Costs

TH9 has a total of 155 days of upgrades, versus 215 days for TH10. However, if you only look at troops, then it's 143 days at TH9, versus 158 days for TH10.

If you give the level 4 upgrade to TH9, then the troop research time at TH9 goes up to 157 days, versus only 144 for TH10.

TH8 is already very heavy on research time, so moving upgrades down to TH8 to compensate is a non-starter. Can't be done.

Which means, the only way you can move pekka 4 down to TH9 is if you add more troop research at TH10. In other words, once they release a new troop at TH10, with upgrades, or they add new levels to existing troops, then you can talk about moving pekka 4 down to TH9.

Or that's my opinion anyway.

Edit: inline edit on that quote, I said "if you only look at spells" in the original post, and clearly I meant troops, not spells.

[AnonymousVillager]

Max Level of P.E.K.K.A. at TH8 is Level 3, TH9 Level 3 also, TH10 Level 5.
I am suggesting that P.E.K.K.A. will be Max Level 4 at TH9.

Spell factory has no queue features wherein the spell factory is full and you have 1 potion queued/creating.

Thank you

Pekkas aren't as useful as you probably are thinking they are "if I only had 1 more level up". Mine are level 5 and there's pretty much no situation I've come across where they're useful. They're slow and stupid. Might as well take dragons instead and not have to deal with walls.

[badfish1979]

Max Level of P.E.K.K.A. at TH8 is Level 3, TH9 Level 3 also, TH10 Level 5.
I am suggesting that P.E.K.K.A. will be Max Level 4 at TH9.

If the level 4 PEKKA is taken from TH10 (the only troop of which TH10 has two level upgrades), the labs would need to be balanced again, meaning that TH9 should give up one of its multiple two-level upgrades and move it up to TH10.

How about the Golem? The TH9 lab has both the level 3 and the level 4 upgrades. Taking the level 4 Golem from TH9 and moving up to TH10 would balance the levels if you take the level 4 PEKKA from TH10 and give it to TH9.

If no, then upgrade your TH if you want TH10 troops.

[Xitra]

Pekkas aren't as useful as you probably are thinking they are "if I only had 1 more level up". Mine are level 5 and there's pretty much no situation I've come across where they're useful. They're slow and stupid. Might as well take dragons instead and not have to deal with walls.

If that's your opinion, you're not using them right.

Someone posted a very careful analysis of all the buildings that level 4 pekkas can kill in one hit, which level 3 pekkas can't. Each of those buildings would add 2.5 seconds to cleanup time at the end of a GoWiPe raid. If you have one surviving pekka, and it needs to clean up 10 such buildings (which isn't a lot, on a base with 70+ buildings), those 10 buildings will take 50 seconds instead of 25 seconds to cleanup, and that's not even counting the time to walk between buildings. Those extra 25 seconds could be the difference between 2 stars and 3 stars. Even if you had 2 surviving pekkas, that would still add almost 15 seconds to your raid.

[awesomness2016]

If the level 4 PEKKA is taken from TH10 (the only troop of which TH10 has two level upgrades), the labs would need to be balanced again, meaning that TH9 should give up one of its multiple two-level upgrades and move it up to TH10.

How about the Golem? The TH9 lab has both the level 3 and the level 4 upgrades. Taking the level 4 Golem from TH9 and moving up to TH10 would balance the levels if you take the level 4 PEKKA from TH10 and give it to TH9.

If no, then upgrade your TH if you want TH10 troops.

First of all, personally I'd rather have the level 4 golem, but why does it have to be balanced? Gold already outweighs e at every higher level, and at TH9 DE far outweighs them both if you want to max your troops and heroes.

This is a strategy game, and part of what makes it a strategy game is having an imbalance, otherwise decisions regarding what to upgrade or when to move up a town hall would be easy.

I see no reason why giving TH9s level 4 PEKKA would necessitate taking something else away...no upgrade has ever worked like that before. Ever. So none of that seems relevant.

What does seem relevant is a) are the level 3 PEKKA you get at TH8 still good enough at TH9? (note TH8 has 3 double upgrades, TH9 only has 2) and b) would level 4 PEKKA be OP against other TH9s. To both of these I would answer no.

[chrispeterson]

First of all, personally I'd rather have the level 4 golem, but why does it have to be balanced? Gold already outweighs e at every higher level, and at TH9 DE far outweighs them both if you want to max your troops and heroes.

This is a strategy game, and part of what makes it a strategy game is having an imbalance, otherwise decisions regarding what to upgrade or when to move up a town hall would be easy.

I see no reason why giving TH9s level 4 PEKKA would necessitate taking something else away...no upgrade has ever worked like that before. Ever. So none of that seems relevant.

What does seem relevant is a) are the level 3 PEKKA you get at TH8 still good enough at TH9? (note TH8 has 3 double upgrades, TH9 only has 2) and b) would level 4 PEKKA be OP against other TH9s. To both of these I would answer no.

for the same reasons that:
Hogs were nerfed
witches were nerfed
lavapups were nerfed (slightly)

Honestly, I don't get why people want level 4 pekkas at 9 anyway. Gowipe? that's really all I see it being good for and that's a two star strategy at best in my opinion (unless you're using it on an 8 or premmie 9). Being a 9 myself I think it's fine as is you already get level 30 heros....mixed with level 4 pekkas sounds like a bit much.

[Xitra]

First of all, personally I'd rather have the level 4 golem, but why does it have to be balanced? Gold already outweighs e at every higher level, and at TH9 DE far outweighs them both if you want to max your troops and heroes.

This is a strategy game, and part of what makes it a strategy game is having an imbalance, otherwise decisions regarding what to upgrade or when to move up a town hall would be easy.

I see no reason why giving TH9s level 4 PEKKA would necessitate taking something else away...no upgrade has ever worked like that before. Ever. So none of that seems relevant.

What does seem relevant is a) are the level 3 PEKKA you get at TH8 still good enough at TH9? (note TH8 has 3 double upgrades, TH9 only has 2) and b) would level 4 PEKKA be OP against other TH9s. To both of these I would answer no.

Hey, if you want to talk about balance, we can talk about it all day. No TH level has more expensive walls than the TH level above. No TH level has more expensive defenses than the TH level above. No TH level has defenses that take longer than the TH level above. No TH level has research that costs more than the TH level above, except for TH8. TH8 is like the one outlier that sticks out like a sore thumb. No TH level has research that takes longer than the TH level above.

See the pattern? Yes, imbalance is good, as you point out. At all TH levels, the gold costs exceed the elixir costs. Starting at TH8, this is true, even if you disregard walls. (TH9 and TH10 get to use elixir for walls, so comparing gold and elixir costs at TH9 and above is utterly meangingless.)

Anyway, the point is, moving the pekka research to TH9 makes TH9 get more goodies than TH10. You would have considerably fewer exclusive research items at TH10, and even if you factor in the longer research times at TH10, you would still have "more" research to do at TH9, in terms of days spent researching troops. Why should TH9 get all those perks?

Level 4 pekkas would have a small impact on TH9. It's not going to be "game-changing". It's not going to turn 1-star strategies into 3-star strategies overnight. It would cause some small percentage of 2-star attacks (which run out of time) to turn into 3-star attacks. And maybe a slight number of 0 or 1 star attacks to pick up one extra star. Yes, it'll make TH9's stronger, but it's not earth shattering. Does TH9 "need" the level 4 pekka? No. Will it upset the research balance more than it's worth? Yes.

Once Supercell adds more research at TH10 (level 5 dragons? Level 5 healers? Level 7 minions? Level 7 goblins? Level 3 witches? Level 5 valkyries? Maybe a new dark troop unlocked at TH10 with at least one upgrade in the lab?), there will be a much stronger case for shifting level 4 pekkas (and level 4 dragons) down to TH9.

On a side note, the level 4 dragons could be moved now, since the assumption is that shifting the level 4 dragon to TH9 will happen in the same update as a new level 5 dragon, automatically balancing the exchange.