Why are people afraid to upgrade to th 10?

**Nafee** · January 31st, 2015

Originally Posted by Cjdolan

Air raids at th10 aren't going to 3* forever. There will be nerfs to offense/buffs to defense to balance things out.

"Only 10/250 walls get broken by wallbreakers, then they just use a jump spell" is a REALLY a bad argument. Let's go a month down the road, i am at th10 after maxing th9, you're at th10 with level 8 walls. You're using a ground attack against me and you're going to need a jump spell. Im using a ground attack against you and I don't need a jump spell. You're using 20% of your spells on jumping over walls, with 80% devoted to freeze/rage/heal. I am using 100% of my spells on freeze/rage/heals. Same defense levels, same troops, etc. and I will have a much higher chance of getting a 3* than you do.

Im done my lava walls at th9, and i routinely demolish max defense th9s with non lava walls using ground attacks in wars. I have yet to 3* a max th9 with lava walls with a pure ground attack (unless the base was set up terribly and I could hog it).

That isnt true at all. Your theory completely depends on base layout. When i said people use jump i didnt mean everyone, i meant the most common army and spell combination is involved around jump spell nowadays. And about your argument, let's use gowiwi since I've recently seen it being used with a jump and without a jump like old times. I've seen both of the combo work and fail, it completely depends on the base layout. If the base is good niether of us will get three stars, if the base is bad both of us will, if the base is a southern teaser with one layer of wall then jump will be less effective and if the layout is favorable to a jump spell then not using it could actually get you less percentage even if my walls are lower level.

**BooomBaby** · January 31st, 2015

As a TH10, I can also agree the nexting cost isn't bad and the raiding, after getting used to tackling TH9/10 is good. I keep all 5 builders constantly busy so I believe supercell has balanced the game well. And Im a casual player raiding 8-10 times a day.

I sneak in a lego wall here and there and am doing defenses and one hero at a time.

Defensively having infernos and extra defenses(with TH outside) makes a huge difference in who is willing to attack. One of the greatest frustrations is having all your hard earned stuff taken away and being a TH10 after a year of playing is good reward for making it here.

And obviously I would die of boredom is i sat at TH9 doing walls and heroes crowd.

**carlito** · January 31st, 2015

Originally Posted by Nafee

Personally i dont like zap walls. I want lavas cause they look the best to me. I'm working on max heroes and it's not at hard to get heroes unless you think 140k de in 8-9 days for a non dedicated player isnt good enough. So yeah...A couple months ago Mei from kings rock was no. 1 and she didnt have max heroes and had lvl 9 walls. So zaps or lavas arent as important as we think. If you wanna do it then that's fine though

Correct. Walls are not important the higher up you go. As you face stronger attacking armies, the difference a L10 or L11 wall makes is slim. They are either negated with spells or the troops simply power through them one way or the other anyway...

Walls are status really but when farming, they are VERY important because a lot of farmers will struggle to crack bases with L11/ L10 walls...most will press next.

If you dont want walls personally, then upgrade, if you do, then do them at TH9. Thats about the best advice I can give. I wanted lavas so I did them when i could still make good bank every day.

**TheDevilsLuck** · January 31st, 2015

Because there is nothing more fun at th10 than th9. If you like to war, th9 has more army comps that are solid and interesting. If you like to farm, the loot is easier at th9.

**Rdchris** · January 31st, 2015

The reason doubtlessly varies greatly from person to person. I'm currently maxed except for lavas (half way) and heros (18/17) with no plans to go to TH10 until I'm done with walls. Here's my main justification, if your goal is to have lavas at TH10 or even zap the fastest possible method to achieve this is to grind them at th9 even with sleeping builders.

We debate a number of items on these forums, but one item that nobody ever calls into question is the fact that loot is significantly better at TH9 than TH10. Lets continue with that assumption.

For player 1 lets say they take 3 months with all builders asleep (unrealistic since you'd probably have atleast heros) to grind out lavas at th9, player 2 goes to TH10 with Legos or worse. For the sake of simplification lets assume both take exactly 9 months to max all building at TH10.

z=sleeping builder
a=active building

Month1

Month2

Month3

Month4

Month5

Month6

Month7

Month8

Month9

Month10

Month11

Month12

Player 1 (Max TH9(

Z(grinding walls)

Z (grindingwalls)

a(upgrading TH10 defense)

Player 2 (early TH10)

a(upgrading TH10 defense)

Z(grinding walls)

As you can see, at some point both players will be grinding walls in order to reach their goal of TH10 with lavas+ with sleeping builders. The difference is that player 1 who maxed TH9 will achieve this much quicker as they did their massive resource grind at the more lucrative TH9 instead of TH10. This may not be the "fun" way to play for some people but it will doubtlessly be the more productive.

As for those who believe you can "hold onto" loot better as a TH10 that argument has zero merit. I haven't lost more onegold storage to an attack in 8 months since nobody uses strong armies in the gold farming range against near maxed TH9s.

I understand plenty of people will disagree with this play-style, I'm just explaining my decision for you benefit since that was the original point of this thread.

**BooomBaby** · January 31st, 2015

one data point of sitting in gold and no one attacking you for resources as a maxing TH9 is proof that infernos don't help in keeping enemies from attacking you?

I suppose gold is where all those juicy TH8s are that TH9 love to prey on.

I think the OP is saying that the effort in upgrading all those walls doesn't provide as much benefit as hardcore wallers think. For time vs result.

No one is arguing that all lava walls won't dissuade TH8/9 from attacking you. But wow, all the resources and time spent...

**Nafee** · January 31st, 2015

Originally Posted by Rdchris

The reason doubtlessly varies greatly from person to person. I'm currently maxed except for lavas (half way) and heros (18/17) with no plans to go to TH10 until I'm done with walls. Here's my main justification, if your goal is to have lavas at TH10 or even zap the fastest possible method to achieve this is to grind them at th9 even with sleeping builders.

We debate a number of items on these forums, but one item that nobody ever calls into question is the fact that loot is significantly better at TH9 than TH10. Lets continue with that assumption.

For player 1 lets say they take 3 months with all builders asleep (unrealistic since you'd probably have atleast heros) to grind out lavas at th9, player 2 goes to TH10 with Legos or worse. For the sake of simplification lets assume both take exactly 9 months to max all building at TH10.

z=sleeping builder
a=active building

Month1

Month2

Month3

Month4

Month5

Month6

Month7

Month8

Month9

Month10

Month11

Month12

Player 1 (Max TH9(

Z(grinding walls)

Z (grindingwalls)

a(upgrading TH10 defense)

Player 2 (early TH10)

a(upgrading TH10 defense)

Z(grinding walls)

As you can see, at some point both players will be grinding walls in order to reach their goal of TH10 with lavas+ with sleeping builders. The difference is that player 1 who maxed TH9 will achieve this much quicker as they did their massive resource grind at the more lucrative TH9 instead of TH10. This may not be the "fun" way to play for some people but it will doubtlessly be the more productive.

As for those who believe you can "hold onto" loot better as a TH10 that argument has zero merit. I haven't lost more onegold storage to an attack in 8 months since nobody uses strong armies in the gold farming range against near maxed TH9s.

I understand plenty of people will disagree with this play-style, I'm just explaining my decision for you benefit since that was the original point of this thread.

I disagree with you that it takes 9 months for a th 10 player to get all his defenses done, you kidding me? It takes 3-4 months at best...but fine, I'll assume 5 months. So after 5 months the th 10 will will defend better while farming and or pushing and in war. You'll have max troops to help yourself and your friends, you'll have time to upgrade your walls while the other player is doing his defenses to max. (The speed at which you do walls doesnt make any differnece if you're a dedicated player) but if you're not then it may take a little longer than it would at th 9 but hey if you're not a dedicated player then maxing walls would prolly not matter to you as much either and odds are that a non dedicated player will take a long time doing his walls at th 9 as well. With updates coming once every two months i usually have 4-5 weeks to upgrade walls even after getting everything that each update brings. Plenty of time to do walls (once maxed out you have nothing to do anyway)
EDIT: i barch with 5 lightening spells, i can easily take out two mortars and get resources. Most players who are doing walls and heores are in higher crystal where noobs/players tend to snipe rather than go for full attack for cups and league bonus.

**Rdchris** · January 31st, 2015

Originally Posted by Nafee

I disagree with you that it takes 9 months for a th 10 player to get all his defenses done, you kidding me? It takes 3-4 months at best...but fine, I'll assume 5 months. So after 5 months the th 10 will will defend better while farming and or pushing and in war. You'll have max troops to help yourself and your friends, you'll have time to upgrade your walls while the other player is doing his defenses to max. (The speed at which you do walls doesnt make any differnece if you're a dedicated player) but if you're not then it may take a little longer than it would at th 9 but hey if you're not a dedicated player then maxing walls would prolly not matter to you as much either and odds are that a non dedicated player will take a long time doing his walls at th 9 as well. With updates coming once every two months i usually have 4-5 weeks to upgrade walls even after getting everything that each update brings. Plenty of time to do walls (once maxed out you have nothing to do anyway)
EDIT: i barch with 5 lightening spells, i can easily take out two mortars and get resources. Most players who are doing walls and heores are in higher crystal where noobs/players tend to snipe rather than go for full attack for cups and league bonus.

sorry I said 9 months simply to make the entire process take an even year for oversimplification it would never take near that long but that wasn't my point. My point is it will take you longer to completely max th10 not maxing TH9. Yes you can still do it as a TH10, it will just take longer.

I agree there are many other things you can do at TH10 you cannot do as TH9, such as donate higher troops, help out better in Wars, push higher ect, that's all true. What is also true is that, big picture you'll get to max TH10 faster maxing TH9, if that's not as important to you than the things you mentioned above then you made the right decision for you.

**MacEdon** · January 31st, 2015

The reason I'm staying at th9 has nothing to do with maxing out walls for me. It's all about wars or more specifically about war matchups.

A max th9 with lvl 30 heroes will still be considered weaker by supercell than a th10 with lvl 1 infernos and lvl 7 walls. Heroes and walls don't add much to strength in war matchups. A max th9 with lvl 30 heroes can easily 2 star some of these weaker th10s and 3 star top th9s.

If you go up, your matchups will get much stronger. Eventually I will go up, but only when I feel the clan can handle the tougher wars we will face. Meanwhile, I'll work on lavas and heroes until then...this has never been about the loot penalty for me.

Peace Out!

**Goobers** · January 31st, 2015

Originally Posted by HydroPenguin

Answer to thread title:

Loot Penalty

Originally Posted by Nafee

Read the thread at first lol. And loot penalty doesnt drastically change your chances of getting loot. It's the same difference as you you had in loot from th 8 to 9. Loot penalty just means you cant get good loot from th 7 and below but there are way more th 8-9 these days than you might think.

The loot penalty is actually very relevant from TH9 to TH10. It's hardly noticeable from TH8 to TH9 (and every TH difference prior to that) for a couple reasons, but the biggest factor here is elixir for walls.

TH8s go up to TH9 and can't really farm TH7s anymore. However, once they get their lvl 6 farming troops, they can demolish TH8s with just basic tier 1 troops along with their 2 heroes. TH8s cannot dump their elixir, therefore loot is still very easy to come by. They also have only 6 storages to get to for gold/elixir. TH10s have to farm TH9s, who have 8 storages, a more elaborate defense layout, and TH9s don't have to stockpile elixir the way TH8s have to.

TH8s are not really viable unless you hit the unicorn ones that have capped out both resources in storages, but even then it's 150k/150k. TH9s can hit those same bases for 270k/270k and with cheaper troops. Lvl 7 barch doesn't crack into TH9 storage bases the way that lvl 6 barch walk through TH8s, even when ignoring the increased costs (240 camp space running from all barb to all arch on the spectrum of 48k - 96k, compared to 33k - 66k as a TH9).

There are people who adapt well and move up to Champions and farm the league bonus or down in sub 200 to hit storages, but that isn't accomplished by everyone, and it still doesn't yield nearly what you can get as a TH9. To say that there isn't a significant dropoff in gold/elixir farming per hour as a TH10 compared to TH9 would be flat out lying.

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