*Proof* of why snipers are damaging the economy

[victort]

Just proves that one particular player, at one specific time wanted your trophies more than loot.....

Afterall, YOU, left your TH out, for the very reason - you wanted a snipe, and protected loot, and got what you wanted.. so why is it snipers fault, rather than farmers leaving their TH outside who are to blame?

1 last point... Is the economy ruined? ..... Seems good to me, and my clannies at the moment, a couple are swimming in loot, with nothing to spend it on....

[Pukeko1]

Hmm, somewhat puzzled here.

This thread relates to a poster stating how sniping is basically bad.

As evidence, the OP shows his powerful Level 10 base full of loot that has been sniped. Thus preventing those few people with troops powerful enough to get some of his loot from actually doing so.

With you so far.

As evidence of his / her assertion, the OP shows screen shots of his base, which shows the TH outside the security of the walls.

Classic farming tactic; you snipe my TH, get the win bonus and cups, I get to have a shield so other players can't attack my base.


Hypocritical much?

Why put your TH outside if you don't want the exact thing that you are criticising to occur?

As for people not raiding collectors, perhaps they have a morality that says I will take your TH but believe it is against the spirit of the game to take advantage of you.

[tellingthetruth]

Yes, I am part of the problem. I'm selfish too. But snipers are as well. Anyone who snipes is part of the problem, and anyone who puts their town hall out is part of the problem. There is no point in me putting my town hall inside at this time as the situation is at the point where a few people putting town halls inside would do nothing.

"Don't hate the player, hate the game"

This isn't the fault of TH snipers, it's just bad game design.

[Reefus]

I'm glad you raised this point. The reason is that I want to give people a safety net, so to speak. They can take on my base with no risk of losing trophies, because of my outside town hall.

If you do not have your town hall out you barely get attacked. And I want to not only help myself, but also those players who are not 100% sure that they can 50% my base. I want to help these new players to be able to confidently attack.

Yeah youre a saint. Put your townhall in and I guarantee your collectors won't get that full. With your full storages you'll be hit by a gowipe or loonion attack within a few hours.

[Lloopy14]

I'm glad you raised this point. The reason is that I want to give people a safety net, so to speak. They can take on my base with no risk of losing trophies, because of my outside town hall.

If you do not have your town hall out you barely get attacked. And I want to not only help myself, but also those players who are not 100% sure that they can 50% my base. I want to help these new players to be able to confidently attack.

That is hilarious.

If I wanted your loot, and had the appropriate army, I wouldnt care if I won or lost trophies. The only person my not 50%ing a base would harm is the base I attacked if I didnt get 40%

The only people who care are those who want the trophies - and your complaining that they sniped you?

But onto a more somber note. This did not hurt the economy. The fact you got to keep the loot means that you dont need to raid so much from others. Maybe not a huge amount less..... But still.

Truely abandoned bases are removed from the economy altogether*. The time that loot becomes 'lost' is when the collectors are fully maxed and cannot in effect generate more.

If you want to do a proper experiment keep your TH in and design a base where your full collectors are away from the defenses and your base is easy to 50%. This should not be a problem with the new base design thingy. As others have said- try a bit longer.

The reason that people dont snipe and take out the collectors is that there is a button called "revenge". It has been voiced on many an occasion on these forums that if someone snipes a base they are generally left alone- but if they zap or go on to attack the base (even pick the collectors) they will be revenged.

In actual fact I do keep my TH snipe for a free shield. People arent always competent enough to get 40% on a base. I am also more likely to break my shield regularly with the odds stacked slightly in my favour of having a snipe. I have no issue with this at all.


*well a bit of hyperbole..lol. Placed at the back of the queue so much less likely to be seen...

[fennster1969]

But I'm talking about the fact that snipers would rather snipe an inactive base than attack it.

Hang on a minute, isn't it this forum that has many people saying inactive bases never appear, they get pushed to the back of the queue by Supercell??? (rhetorical, just highlighting a point).

I think it's a bit strong to say snipers are hurting the Clash economy. The loot hasn't disappeared, it remains in your pocket not someone elses, that is all. People leave TH's out with this in mind. I know you said you leave it out for other reasons, but I think you're in the minority there. Nobody 'wants' to lose loot and will try any tactic not to. Leaving a TH outside is the most common.

I have an issue with TH's being left outside enabling low level players to get to higher leagues than they should. As a nearly maxed TH8 playing in G1 and C3 I will take down any TH7 or below I meet purely to redress this inbalance in my own small way. It doesn't bother me what loot they have as they are not the bulk of my raids so losing a little doesn't hurt in the long run.

The only way you can stop a sniper from 'hurting' the clash economy is not to leave your TH outside. Perhaps a little unfair to say this, but next time you walk into a supermarket, I would like to know, did you spend every bit of cash you had on you, and did you max out your credit cards? If not your hurting the economy. Think about it, you probably will only buy what you went in for, even though the store had more to offer you. People do what they think meets there objective at the time. They don't usually do what is best for the wider community.

[Warble]

If everyone kept their TH's in would that solve the problem? No. Because stealing from other people's storages does not create loot. Every time someone spends a large amount of elixir raiding the storages of another player the economy loses because transferring loot from one storage to another does not create new loot and the elixir used to make the army is gone forever.

As you say, people do not understand the problem. If I raid your full storages and you raid my full storages their is no gain for either of us, just the loss of nexting costs and army costs. People that keep promoting storage raiding as the answer clearly do not understand the problem.

The reason I do not weep for the loot that is now unavailable to me is because it was never my loot to begin with. It is your loot and you are more than capable of spending it yourself. If I look at a base and see that the collectors are less than half full I know I am dealing with an active player and there is no net economic benefit to raiding him. He will collect the loot from his collectors and spend the loot in his storages without my help. My attacking him would harm the economy overall because I would not be creating any extra loot (other than the league bonus) and would be losing the value of the elixir that made my army. If however I find a base to snipe I can create the same league bonus without wasting the elixir on an army. In your case you are helping the economy much more by putting your town hall out than in because we save all those army costs. If I raided your storages as well that would not benefit the economy at all. It would benefit me, but it would hurt you just as much, thereby creating no net gain.

Unless a base is truly abandoned (i.e. the collectors are completely full and thus are no longer creating new loot) there is no gain to the overall economy to doing anything more than just sniping the town hall for the league bonus. I appreciate you doing your part to help the economy by putting your town hall out. Enjoy your loot. You deserve to keep it for doing the right thing and keeping your town hall out.

First off, that is an excellent post. I wish there were more people who took the time to write something as obviously well thought out and in-depth.

Just to clarify, I don't mean that people should put their TH's inside. I want that shield for destroying the TH gone, and then people can do whatever they want with their town hall, although there would be no benefit to keeping it outside.

All loot is created is from the finite resource that is the single player campaign, and the renewable sources that are collectors, league bonuses, and war bonuses. If we wanted to create more loot, we'd have to either introduce a new source of income or increase one of these four existing sources. This was recently done for all but the single player campaign, of course.

This is not about creating loot, however. What I am writing about is the availability of active bases that have loot to attack. There is a reason that all the impoverished villages that must be skipped past are trophy bases. And sure, there are certainly farming bases that have no resources as well. I snipe those myself. But by making use of the system allowing my base to be shielded by someone who is looking for a trophies, xp, or achievements, I am able to remove myself the majority of the time from the whole search queue.

And I'm no special snowflake, this is multiplied perhaps millions of times for others who are also able to shield their loot. This means a base with an exposed TH is only available until any person comes along willing to come along, which is a far larger pool than having to wait for a person who has an army capable of taking on my village. Only SC knows the exact numbers, but that has to be a lot of bases that end up being shielded most of the time and were never available for a "real" attack.

I want more of these choice bases, loaded with loot who would otherwise be sniped and protected, available for me to attack and I'm willing to offer up my own for it. As you point out, this would result in a net loss to the economy and the sources of wealth would have to be further increased to compensate or the economy would suffer. I didn't think about this before, but yes, if the two weren't done together this results might very well be pretty awful.

Basically, I think it's more fun to have active bases that are worth attacking and I want to see more of them. The search times are ridiculous (even 6 minutes a pop really adds up) and since SC won't allow any sort of filter to skip seeing bases which only serve to waste your time nexting base, this is the only other option I see. As it stands my best option currently is to primarily seek out abandoned bases and harvest them for resources. That's great, and it's necessary to prop up the economy, but it becomes incredibly tedious.

EDIT: Another problem just occurred to me. Zapping DE might very well get completely out of hand without exposed THs. There are some bugs to work out with the idea now I think. Modifiying how the shield works could be used to fix this, it would have to be done anyways if the TH goes away. It's a major change, but it's basically what SC tries to do by hiding inactives except consideration is now being given to the economical impact and we would be adding to the search queue instead of just taking away from it.

This is certainly something that would have to be tested and fleshed out fully. I see now you couldn't just take away the shields without some other changes as well, but I think it may very well improve the game. It's worth a test on the developer servers at any rate.

EDIT 2: Sorry for the wall of text

[Superfinch30]

Ok, yes to all of that. Both good posts.

I just disagree with erethizon that there is a scarcity of loot in the system.

League and war bonuses got buffed, and the little in collectors even from a fairly active player helps.

SC arent going to make masses more loot out of thin air. That would remove option Z, gem the resources.
Its not an option the vast majority like, but SC are always going to keep things just tight enough that sometimes, people will.

They cannot make the game unplayably dry, or so richly easy that no one will gem. Both are bad for business.

We would all like more, but people that say that cant manage tend to be exaggerating, as do those that play an incredible amount and say it is easy.
The middle is surely closer to the truth.

I really doubt there are that many people that have quit, or stopped raiding because of the loot. I mean, permanently. Or havent started raiding again recently.

So TL;DR for you lazy people!

I believe that there is *just* enough loot generated in the economy.

Warble would like to see more of it unshielded. (But would prob need to be TH and 25% for shield rather than none, lowest % 1* ive had was 28 on a proper base).

But how big a dent would that knock in generated loot from snipers and their league bonuses? Or is most of that then effectively hidden in TH penalties?

Discuss.

[SuperR0ck]

Consider that we are at the same league.

As lower TH level, it's impossible to me attack your village. So I will probably snipe your TH and zap your DE if I have some spell left.

Of course you will get the shield and higher TH levels won't see you for 12 hours.

That's why I believe the leagues must be divided per TH level. It's very frustrating the fact that I can't go to higher leagues and be constantly destroyed by TH8 and above.

Having league bonuses for maximized TH levels are wrong.

[Badzmaru]

Yep. Whether the trolls in this thread like it or not, 700/600/6k could have been looted from me, but a sniper selfishly sniped me meaning that no one could touch it. Now imagine if I wasn't playing, I would be continually sniped until I'm pushed back in the queue with loot that will never be touched.

It think the only troll here is you

If you leave your TH outside, your putting out an invitation for the snipers. If you left your TH inside protected, no snipers will attack it and eventually a storage raider will take your base for the loot. To claim that your helping other players, why don't you just put all your collectors, mines and storages outside unprotected?