Idea to fix the Elixir-Wall-Loot Problem

[Bwit51]

The lack of elixir was finally fixed no way they should add this back at lvl 9+ walls it is necessary because of the high cost of walls but if they switch it back there will be no elixir on walls again. I surprised someone playing this game as long as you can't see why it shouldn't be switched

[chrispeterson]

look honestly elixir walls was just a bad idea...simple as that really don't need much more detail to say it was a bad idea. a lot of you are trying to find ways around it but I mean there is an end to everything so of course at the end of a game or level you stack stuff you don't need...I mean look at the top players bases...theyre storages are all always full

[Goobers]

Almost everyone of you has missed the point of his idea...

The most that can be taken from storage is a fixed amount. You can't take more from a TH8 who's storage is completely full than you can from a TH8 who's storage is half full (provided his storage is max level). If his idea were in place, then the amount you can raid from his storage doesn't change.

His idea in recap: if elixir in storage below is below a certain amount then the upgrade walls with elixir will be greyed out. Once elixir in storage goes above a set amount then elixir can be used to upgrade a wall but if by doing so it dips below that amount the ability is greyed out again.

Town Hall Level	% Available to be Stolen	Cap	Storage Amount to Reach Cap
1-5	20%	200,000	1,000,000
6	18%	200,000	1,111,111
7	16%	250,000	1,562,500
8	14%	300,000	2,142,857
9	12%	350,000	2,916,667
10	10%	400,000	4,000,000

so a level 7 wall takes 500k to upgrade to level 8, so set the min storage amount to 2.7 million. If it's above that then allow him to use elixir to upgrade, this will reduce him to 2.2 mil which is still above the cap. He then has to build his elixir above 2.7 mil again before he can upgrade another wall.

The TH8 can use elixir for walls to prevent it from going to waste but can still be raided for the max allowable. It's win win compromise.

It is absolutely a win-win compromise and should be implemented this way across the board for every wall/TH level. It's laughable the types of arguments against this that people are trying to use (except for chrispeterson, who just wants it gone altogether... but that is a different point entirely, and also not a bad one)

but...lol...this is how the game was do you guys remember life before elixir walls at all?

But it's not how the game was. Maybe for TH7/8s, but it wasn't how it was for TH9/10s. And this still continues to hurt the economy for TH10s. I am also in favor of what you said, removing it entirely, but there is a way for farming to be completely unaffected as if elixir for walls were not put in, but still allow those with tons of excess elixir to spend it. It's just as doable as removing it altogether, and every TH level player would be happy with it. More importantly, the economy would remain just as completely unaffected as a total removal would be.

The lack of elixir was finally fixed no way they should add this back at lvl 9+ walls it is necessary because of the high cost of walls but if they switch it back there will be no elixir on walls again. I surprised someone playing this game as long as you can't see why it shouldn't be switched

So if it's the wall level that was the problem, and not the ability to dump all elixir out of storages from it w/o restriction, you would be ok with SC shifting the two levels of walls from TH9 to TH8? That way TH8s could still use their excess elixir on walls, but only on lvl 9 ones. They'd still be able to dump it all out of the system similarly to how they could before and hurt the economy at TH9, but just with lvl 9s and not lvl 8 walls?
I'm curious to see if you are going to stick to the hypocrisy of your statement.

[Jietoh]

The lack of elixir was finally fixed no way they should add this back at lvl 9+ walls it is necessary because of the high cost of walls but if they switch it back there will be no elixir on walls again. I surprised someone playing this game as long as you can't see why it shouldn't be switched

look honestly elixir walls was just a bad idea...simple as that really don't need much more detail to say it was a bad idea. a lot of you are trying to find ways around it but I mean there is an end to everything so of course at the end of a game or level you stack stuff you don't need...I mean look at the top players bases...theyre storages are all always full

Again you guys are missing the point...

Elixir for walls was a bad idea because TH7s and TH8s were using every drop of elixir on their walls so there was none left in the economy. His fix will not change the amount of elixir that is left in the economy because it guarantees that you can still raid him for the max amount of elixir from his storage yet still allows him to use excess on his walls.

I'm a TH9, I was against the elixir for walls thing from the moment I saw it in the sneak peek because I accurately predicted the effect on the economy.

I'm now 100% behind this idea and further suggest that it should be implemented for ALL elixir for wall upgrades up to level 9.

[Goobers]

Elixir for walls was a bad idea because TH7s and TH8s were using every drop of elixir on their walls so there was none left in the economy. His fix will not change the amount of elixir that is left in the economy because it guarantees that you can still raid him for the max amount of elixir from his storage yet still allows him to use excess on his walls.

I'm a TH9, I was against the elixir for walls thing from the moment I saw it in the sneak peek because I accurately predicted the effect on the economy.

I'm now 100% behind this idea and further suggest that it should be implemented for ALL elixir for wall upgrades up to level 9.

Yep, any person with even a basic understanding of economics could have predicted this would happen. But it should be applied to every level of wall, as allowing it for lvl 9+ will continue to cripple the economy for TH10s. And if they decide to roll in TH11, imagine how badly the economy will be for them with both TH9 and TH10s able to dump it all out of their storages. Placing the lootable max threshold would work for every TH and wall level (assuming TH11 would get another level to storages bringing it up to 12M or something, but I'm getting ahead of myself here), and would be sustainable in the long-run.

It needs to be consistent at every TH level, so as not to be exploited. Currently, TH9s have the best position to develop the most walls given the limitations with elixir for walls not being allowed for TH8s and below (large source of elixir farming) and the poor looting economy at TH10 as a result of TH9/10s being able to completely dump elixir out of their storages. This situation was caused entirely by SC's lazy approach to fixing the initial release of elixir for walls rather than reform the system for which it would be allowed.

[XxBaLiSTiCxX]

It takes a year to get level 8 walls for TH 8. You have to be dedicated to farming gold. It takes forever. PLEASE BRING BACK THE ELIXER WALLS PLEASSEEEE!

[bnb525]

Almost everyone of you has missed the point of his idea...

The most that can be taken from storage is a fixed amount. You can't take more from a TH8 who's storage is completely full than you can from a TH8 who's storage is half full (provided his storage is max level). If his idea were in place, then the amount you can raid from his storage doesn't change.

His idea in recap: if elixir in storage below is below a certain amount then the upgrade walls with elixir will be greyed out. Once elixir in storage goes above a set amount then elixir can be used to upgrade a wall but if by doing so it dips below that amount the ability is greyed out again.

Town Hall Level	% Available to be Stolen	Cap	Storage Amount to Reach Cap
1-5	20%	200,000	1,000,000
6	18%	200,000	1,111,111
7	16%	250,000	1,562,500
8	14%	300,000	2,142,857
9	12%	350,000	2,916,667
10	10%	400,000	4,000,000

so a level 7 wall takes 500k to upgrade to level 8, so set the min storage amount to 2.7 million. If it's above that then allow him to use elixir to upgrade, this will reduce him to 2.2 mil which is still above the cap. He then has to build his elixir above 2.7 mil again before he can upgrade another wall.

The TH8 can use elixir for walls to prevent it from going to waste but can still be raided for the max allowable. It's win win compromise.

I totally agree with this.

[Xitra]

Almost everyone of you has missed the point of his idea...

The most that can be taken from storage is a fixed amount. You can't take more from a TH8 who's storage is completely full than you can from a TH8 who's storage is half full (provided his storage is max level). If his idea were in place, then the amount you can raid from his storage doesn't change.

His idea in recap: if elixir in storage below is below a certain amount then the upgrade walls with elixir will be greyed out. Once elixir in storage goes above a set amount then elixir can be used to upgrade a wall but if by doing so it dips below that amount the ability is greyed out again.

Town Hall Level	% Available to be Stolen	Cap	Storage Amount to Reach Cap
1-5	20%	200,000	1,000,000
6	18%	200,000	1,111,111
7	16%	250,000	1,562,500
8	14%	300,000	2,142,857
9	12%	350,000	2,916,667
10	10%	400,000	4,000,000

so a level 7 wall takes 500k to upgrade to level 8, so set the min storage amount to 2.7 million. If it's above that then allow him to use elixir to upgrade, this will reduce him to 2.2 mil which is still above the cap. He then has to build his elixir above 2.7 mil again before he can upgrade another wall.

The TH8 can use elixir for walls to prevent it from going to waste but can still be raided for the max allowable. It's win win compromise.

I've been thinking about this way too much lately, and I think a far simpler solution (from a gameplay perspective) is to make the minimum reserve a percentage of the max storage capacity for a TH level. The two numbers that make the most sense to me are 25% or 50%.

For example, a TH10 has a max storage capacity of 8M (ignoring the 1000 capacity of the TH itself). A minimum reserve of 50% would be 4M, which also happens to be the loot cap. It also means that elixir must effectively be maxed (ignoring the 1k of TH capacity) before elixir can be spent on a L11 wall.

For a TH9, 50% would be 4M, well above the cap of 2.92M.
For a TH8, 50% would be 3M, well above the cap of 2.14M.
For a TH7, 50% would be 2M, well above the cap of 1.56M.
For a TH6, 50% would be 1M, just below the cap of 1.11M.
For a TH5, 50% would be 500k, about half the loot cap.

I think a somewhat more balanced reserve would be 25%. Hear me out:

For a TH10, 25% would be 2M, half the cap of 4M. A L11 wall would require 6M elixir, a compromise between the 4M price tag and the 8M max that can be held in storage.

For a TH9, 25% would be 2M, about 69% of the cap of 2.92M.
For a TH8, 25% would be 1.5M, about 70% of the cap of 2.14M.
For a TH7, 25% would be 1.0M, about 64% of the cap of 1.56M.
For a TH6, 25% would be 500k, about 45% of the cap of 1.11M.
For a TH5, 25% would be 250k, which is 25% of the cap of 1.00M.

I think either 25% or 50% would be fair compromises. The 50% reserve would be better for the economy, but as you can see, even the 25% reserve would keep about 2/3 of the elixir in the economy at high levels, assuming everyone dumped as much as possible, while making the reserve less of a barrier to access. Put another way, I think the 50% reserve would be better for TH10's, while the 25% option would be better for TH8's. I don't know which would be better for TH9's.

And, more importantly, the 25% or 50% reserve would make for nice round numbers, which would be easier for people to understand (the math is clearer). If I have to remember that I need 2,142,857 elixir in reserve at TH8, then that makes it a lot harder to figure out how much I need to buy a L6, L7, or L8 wall (assuming I have a mix of walls to upgrade).

At TH8, here are the total elixir requirements to buy one wall of level 5, 6, 7, or 8:
2,142,857 + 30,000 = 2,172,857
2,142,857 + 75,000 = 2,217,857
2,142,857 + 200,000 = 2,342,857
2,142,857 + 500,000 = 2,642,857

I'm sorry, but that's just a total mess for gameplay. With my suggestion (25% of max storage):

1,500,000 + 30,000 = 1,530,000
1,500,000 + 75,000 = 1,575,000
1,500,000 + 200,000 = 1,700,000
1,500,000 + 500,000 = 2,000,000

Sure, it's not as clean as having NO reserve whatsoever, but far cleaner than having a reserve that's spelled out to the last drop of lootable elixir.

[Jietoh]

I've been thinking about this way too much lately, and I think a far simpler solution (from a gameplay perspective) is to make the minimum reserve a percentage of the max storage capacity for a TH level. The two numbers that make the most sense to me are 25% or 50%.

Either the option is greyed out or it's not... It can't be more simple than that.

If a guy is going to plan things out to the level you are describing then he doesn't need it to be simple to understand because what he's doing is already way beyond simple.

[Goobers]

I've been thinking about this way too much lately, and I think a far simpler solution (from a gameplay perspective) is to make the minimum reserve a percentage of the max storage capacity for a TH level. The two numbers that make the most sense to me are 25% or 50%.

At TH8, here are the total elixir requirements to buy one wall of level 5, 6, 7, or 8:
2,142,857 + 30,000 = 2,172,857
2,142,857 + 75,000 = 2,217,857
2,142,857 + 200,000 = 2,342,857
2,142,857 + 500,000 = 2,642,857

I'm sorry, but that's just a total mess for gameplay. With my suggestion (25% of max storage):

1,500,000 + 30,000 = 1,530,000
1,500,000 + 75,000 = 1,575,000
1,500,000 + 200,000 = 1,700,000
1,500,000 + 500,000 = 2,000,000

Sure, it's not as clean as having NO reserve whatsoever, but far cleaner than having a reserve that's spelled out to the last drop of lootable elixir.

EDIT: Shortened your quote so we don't have two walls of text within one post. I read the whole thing and am in no way trying to misquote you on anything here.

I'd be in favor of that as well. But the problem with not using the lootable cap is that now you open yourself up to all these subjective debates about what is or isn't a respectable amount to raid, and therefore where to keep the threshold at. Simply requiring the lootable cap be met would restore the economy back to how it was before the update, so it stays consistent in that aspect. You would then have a greyed out box or something that signifies why although you have enough elixir, you do not have the required elixir to dump into walls. There can be a pop-up that explains the reason as simply as saying that they must maintain at least the lootable maximum to upgrade a wall piece, and that's the end of it.

I can't find the post you made a few days ago about the problem with players who for w/e reason want to gem the resources for walls, but thank you for bringing it up as it's a valid area for concern.

- Instead of doing a 2nd pop-up that says "are you really sure?" which could quickly be clicked again, you can set up the "Please type 'CONFIRM'" scenario like you do when changing accounts, which would very clearly state above it that you are purchasing not just the amount for the wall, but the amount that would bring you up to the lootable maximum as well. Beyond that, I mean you can't make everything idiot-proof, lol.

- The alternative would be to not allow it to be gemmed with elixir period until the lootable minimum is reached, whether by farming it up or by physically going in and purchasing the elixir like anyone has been able to do for some time now. Both of these all but solves this very rare but still important dilemma one might face.