REFORM Elixir for Walls System

[Goobers]

It won't make the grind twice as hard. Removing elixir walls completely will make it twice as hard. Let's use level 9 walls as an example, for a TH9. The suggestion means that a wall costs 1,000,000 gold, but you need 3,916,667 elixir in storage to buy the same wall. Let's assume that you farm enough to have 4M of each resource. You could then buy 5 walls total (4 gold, 1 elixir). This is 37.5% less than you could buy with no restrictions (8), and 25% more than what you could buy with gold-only walls (4). It's a reasonably fair balance.

But take it just a little further. You farm up to 5M of each resource. Now you can buy 7 walls (5 gold, 2 elixir), which is 30% less than you could buy with no restrictions (10), and 40% more than you could buy with gold alone (5).

Your grind won't by twice as long, unless you're only farming up to the 1M and dumping immediately. In which case, you don't really have that much loot to lose anyway (12% of 1M is only 120k). In which case, you're not getting pity from me. If you can farm enough to buy even one elixir wall, you're coming out at a reasonably fair place, and you lose at most 350k from one raid, which is only 1/3 of a wall anyway. Farm enough to buy 2 elixir walls, and you're getting more benefit over gold-only walls than the penalty compared to unrestricted elixir walls (40% benefit compared to 30% penalty).

It's balanced, and it's better than what you had access to before elixir walls, PLUS it keeps elixir in the economy.

A sincere thank you for going through the tedious math of this, breaking it down and showing him that his baseless arguments hold no water... or any water it does hold is incredibly murky, and leaves out quite a few key minerals.

[AlvinSoehendryWijaya]

I'm sorry I read over my post that you quoted but I don't know exactly what you are referencing. I didn't always use full armies on every raid as a TH8/9, when I found dead bases I would use only what I needed to get the collector loot, and the same would go for storage raids where I knew I could get by without using the entire army. TH9 used to be almost as good as TH8 for farming gold/elixir pre-elixir for walls update, and it once again should be pretty good. The real grab is that farming DE as a TH9 versus as a TH8 is multiple times as lucrative. I'm not sure if I answered your question? I don't think it has to do with this proposal either way, though.



That's actually what I'm worried about. What this update is going to do is fix the problem for TH7/8s (whatever marginal problem they had), and for the most part solve it for TH9s (for raiding TH8s below them). It will not help TH10s, and what if that's what Supercell deems appropriate? With the moves this development team have made, I honestly believe they haven't thought of something like this, although it isn't exactly rocket science. What if they can't figure out the root cause of the update that is causing economic-breaking results (which has been explained by many in here already), and they say "alright, well lvl 9-11 seems good enough, not as many are complaining" instead of actually fixing it, which they can absolutely do.



I too understand that there are two very different costs associated with gold/elixir, and the value placed on each varies even within each TH (early THs have a very high demand for elixir, established THs require more gold. There is a finite, calculable number that any person can figure out for gold requirements at their TH level, but elixir requirements are fluid and depend on both upgrades as well as army compositions, spell usage, etc.)

The problem with upping the price is that TH7-10s will still dump it all away. They will be less inclined to do so while they still have necessary elixir upgrades, but those conditions are satisfied very early on at TH7/8 and even TH9. Maybe they get hit with the realization that the two resources aren't always "equal." However once they have no need for it, it doesn't matter if a skull wall costs 3M elixir a piece, that otherwise valueless resource is getting sunk into walls.

There needs to be a compromise between not allowing it at all (although this didn't produce any problems other than a slow, familiar grind of gold for walls) and being able to dump both resources out of the game without restriction (which immediately destroyed the game economy).



Dude, absolutely NOTHING has been made obvious to Supercell. They do not understand why the economy broke from the elixir for walls update, they only know that it did. I and others have been explaining it until we've been blue in the face about WHY this happened, and this proposal would completely solve it. This is the move SC should have done with walls for elixir. They royally effed up with lvl 6-10 being allowed to upgrade using elixir without restriction, and they have continued to show incompetence by simply removing two TH levels from using it instead of fixing the system/constraints for which it's allowed.



There is a very explainable reason why gold wasn't as constantly scarce as elixir, and anyone with half an ounce of sense should know why. Quote this and ask me why if you truly don't know b/c I'm not typing out a basic level economics lesson for you unless you specifically want to get schooled in it.



No, it would only be tedious to the extent that you are dead set on only upgrading walls using elixir. 3 months ago this proposal would actually increase your ability to upgrade walls, as this feature didn't even exist. stop stop STOP pretending that we have always been able to use elixir for walls and that it worked perfectly fine while it happened. B/c overnight this game's economy took a s*** when it was introduced.



No, I don't. And there is only on benefit, not many, of fixing the lack of demand for elixir at higher levels. Walls. So stop making it seem like there's this cornucopia of positives that I'm trying to radically remove from every TH9/10's gameplay when really this would affect ONE SINGLE ASPECT that would result from it, which would be players not being able to dump all their elixir out of the game.

Better yet, give me even one benefit other than using it for walls that this update did for the demand at elixir at higher levels. Either that, or stop using the phrase "outweighs ALL the benefits" from here on out.

Having excess elixir is not a problem. It never was a problem. Having such low levels of elixir in the game that it broke the economy is very much a problem. It is purely of your opinion that higher level walls, starting arbitrarily at lvl 8 according to you, require more than just gold to upgrade. Increased level of walls, by the way, are merely a bonus and an endgame resource sink in this game.

Like i say its fine before/after update
but with your idea is not bad for people going for core for collector use your idea useless or almost against them
lets say they can farm about 8 mil elix per day if they can only dump 4 mil in lv 11 wall than its a waste of 4 mil that can make another wall if you want maybe combine it with my idea of use autodump elix when full storage
or maybe add 4 mil storage elix so max elix is 12 mil gold is 8 mil why bcoz elix will always be on cap 4 mil lower and gold is zero so every raid session basicly begin at 0 gold and 4 mil elix right? If both resources get in balance if someone get 8 m g (minus nexting cost) he will get 8 m elix(minus some troops spell cost)

the problem is the margin u upped lower margin but not upping high margin
0 elix to 8 mil (8 m margin gap) now become 4 mil margin gap (4 mil to 8 mil)
for hardcore farmer that got full elix per day and use all builder your way is not efficient
sorry to say that and basicly slowing them down

[bustinak]

i really like his/her idea.

[2Big]

No...just...no

[Deadlyxda]

I would be happy with this going live. I'm a th8 who finished all elixir upgrades and only left with lab upgrades. Now all of a sudden they removed elixir upgrade on lvl8 wall and now all my strategic upgrades is a total mess. I never attack any base with elixir these days and yet I'm almost maxed on elixir all time and can't farm gold or de because I'll get attack all the time because of elixir and I lose de and gold along with it no matter how much I have.

Its kind of frustrating. At least this way I'll have some use of excess elixir rather than getting constant non stop loss of other resources. I can't even donate to wars defense etc as th8 isn't max th in our war clan. So there is no point of piling up elixir and collectors. I hate to see elixir these days.

[TheConfuzed1]

No. Level them with gold, just like the rest of us.

[Deadlyxda]

Like i say its fine before/after update
but with your idea is not bad for people going for core for collector use your idea useless or almost against them
lets say they can farm about 8 mil elix per day if they can only dump 4 mil in lv 11 wall than its a waste of 4 mil that can make another wall if you want maybe combine it with my idea of use autodump elix when full storage
or maybe add 4 mil storage elix so max elix is 12 mil gold is 8 mil why bcoz elix will always be on cap 4 mil lower and gold is zero so every raid session basicly begin at 0 gold and 4 mil elix right? If both resources get in balance if someone get 8 m g (minus nexting cost) he will get 8 m elix(minus some troops spell cost)

the problem is the margin u upped lower margin but not upping high margin
0 elix to 8 mil (8 m margin gap) now become 4 mil margin gap (4 mil to 8 mil)
for hardcore farmer that got full elix per day and use all builder your way is not efficient
sorry to say that and basicly slowing them down

The "upgrade elixir walls" option was added because people had no where to dump excess elixir as the elixir upgrades are less compared to gold upgrades. This unrestricted elixir and gold dumping made the loot availability suddenly go bad which is what everyone complained about.

So with this idea you will still have an option to use elixir without wasting excess storage and keeping elixir storages maxed for almost all time. This way economy won't get hit or players don't have to keep wasting elixir as storage is almost always full.

[AlvinSoehendryWijaya]

The "upgrade elixir walls" option was added because people had no where to dump excess elixir as the elixir upgrades are less compared to gold upgrades. This unrestricted elixir and gold dumping made the loot availability suddenly go bad which is what everyone complained about.

So with this idea you will still have an option to use elixir without wasting excess storage and keeping elixir storages maxed for almost all time. This way economy won't get hit or players don't have to keep wasting elixir as storage is almost always full.

Reform your idea a little maybe
th9 n 10 gonna like it adding 50% of elixir storage
not neccesarily to add another storage just their capacity

after the update people that farming 8 mil elix per day can make 2 lv 11 wall
why it should be different now?
And why wasted the "extra" 4 mil elix with your idea
reforming it this way is better

[Xitra]

Like i say its fine before/after update
but with your idea is not bad for people going for core for collector use your idea useless or almost against them
lets say they can farm about 8 mil elix per day if they can only dump 4 mil in lv 11 wall than its a waste of 4 mil that can make another wall if you want maybe combine it with my idea of use autodump elix when full storage
or maybe add 4 mil storage elix so max elix is 12 mil gold is 8 mil why bcoz elix will always be on cap 4 mil lower and gold is zero so every raid session basicly begin at 0 gold and 4 mil elix right? If both resources get in balance if someone get 8 m g (minus nexting cost) he will get 8 m elix(minus some troops spell cost)

the problem is the margin u upped lower margin but not upping high margin
0 elix to 8 mil (8 m margin gap) now become 4 mil margin gap (4 mil to 8 mil)
for hardcore farmer that got full elix per day and use all builder your way is not efficient
sorry to say that and basicly slowing them down

So what you're basically saying is that the ONLY purpose that walls serve is to give you a place to dump your excess loot, so that you're not a target for being raided. How very short-sighted. So you want to remove your loot from the economy, because A) you don't like being raided, and B) you're one of those selfish people who think it's okay to steal, but not be stolen from. (Unless you don't farm, in which case, yes, you will be grinding for a long time on mine/collector income alone...)

Walls serve three purposes, as far as I can see:
1) They are defensive structures
2) They intimidate opponents
3) They serve as a resource dump

Walls are primarily a means to boost your defenses. They also intimidate. When I was TH5, I judged other TH5 bases by the level of their walls, at least for the first split second that I was evaluating their base. If I saw gold walls, I hit Next, unless they had a lot of loot. If they had iron or stone walls, I would consider raiding them with far less loot available. I mean really, walls don't make that much difference at that level. Whether it takes 2 or 3 wall breakers to bust through, or even 4, it's not a big deal. It's not like they have 3-4 layers of nested walls, where an extra wall breaker per layer adds up. But that intimidation factor was psychological.

The fact that walls have zero build time means that they also just happen to serve a secondary function of giving a place to quickly dump resources. (Tertiary if you want to sound fancy.) Being a resource dump is not their primary purpose. If walls took an hour to build (or an hour per million cost), you wouldn't be able to just dump your excess loot (more than one wall's worth anyway), and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

So get over it. Yeah, with this suggestion, you would log off with tons of elixir to be raided. Boo-hoo. So what happens if you log off with 0 gold and 4M elixir? Do you log back on with 0 gold and 0 elixir? Did you lose 4M elixir???

No, you log back on with 3.6M elixir. You lost 1/10th of that next level 11 wall you were working on. Oh no, the world is ending!!! As long as you can farm more than 400k per session, you're elixir will continue to go up, on top of whatever your collectors can bring in.

[AlvinSoehendryWijaya]

So what you're basically saying is that the ONLY purpose that walls serve is to give you a place to dump your excess loot, so that you're not a target for being raided. How very short-sighted. So you want to remove your loot from the economy, because A) you don't like being raided, and B) you're one of those selfish people who think it's okay to steal, but not be stolen from. (Unless you don't farm, in which case, yes, you will be grinding for a long time on mine/collector income alone...)

Walls serve three purposes, as far as I can see:
1) They are defensive structures
2) They intimidate opponents
3) They serve as a resource dump

Walls are primarily a means to boost your defenses. They also intimidate. When I was TH5, I judged other TH5 bases by the level of their walls, at least for the first split second that I was evaluating their base. If I saw gold walls, I hit Next, unless they had a lot of loot. If they had iron or stone walls, I would consider raiding them with far less loot available. I mean really, walls don't make that much difference at that level. Whether it takes 2 or 3 wall breakers to bust through, or even 4, it's not a big deal. It's not like they have 3-4 layers of nested walls, where an extra wall breaker per layer adds up. But that intimidation factor was psychological.

The fact that walls have zero build time means that they also just happen to serve a secondary function of giving a place to quickly dump resources. (Tertiary if you want to sound fancy.) Being a resource dump is not their primary purpose. If walls took an hour to build (or an hour per million cost), you wouldn't be able to just dump your excess loot (more than one wall's worth anyway), and we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

So get over it. Yeah, with this suggestion, you would log off with tons of elixir to be raided. Boo-hoo. So what happens if you log off with 0 gold and 4M elixir? Do you log back on with 0 gold and 0 elixir? Did you lose 4M elixir???

No, you log back on with 3.6M elixir. You lost 1/10th of that next level 11 wall you were working on. Oh no, the world is ending!!! As long as you can farm more than 400k per session, you're elixir will continue to go up, on top of whatever your collectors can bring in.

i say about it bad and slowing people maxxing wall
example a th 10 can raid 8 mil elix per day
and his cap 4 mil
so that mean he can only make 1 wall and when he farming another 8 mil elix
he will wasted 4 mil elix (this idea instead helping th 10 become factor that slower they lv 11 wall)
i am a th9 but i dont want when i go th10 this terrible thing happen

thats why if they want cap then at least make elixir storage + cap limit
so in this case 4 mil cap mean he can have 12 mil elix and everyday can make 2 wall and leave 4 mil in storage