You are pretty rude to call others idiot huh?Originally Posted by Goobers
i will not call you an idiot since i am not a rude person.
There is something very wrong with your solution though.
you said that your solution will be able to keep economy from collapsing, try thinking about it this way.
if TH8 can upgrade walls with elixir (even with your loot cap theory), then they can finish walls twice as fast and get to work on lv 9 walls which they can dump their elixir on it.
However if SC nullifies it completely, then 8 million gold for each piece of walls is completely ridiculuous.
that's why they balance it out by limiting it to certain level.
Lv6 limit is just too low, Lv8 is better suited.
PS: I know the reason you made this thread is because you still have walls lv 8 or lower, but just bear with it and don't complain.
Last edited by vincentboy; December 17th, 2014 at 05:01 PM.
I do have my TH outside and in the corner. It's not even trapped. It didn't make any difference.
Last edited by Fearlessfreep; December 17th, 2014 at 05:37 PM.
I called you an idiot b/c you are clearly trolling me and making nonsensical arguments, by either picking inconsistent scenarios that don't apply or by picking and choosing posts I'm saying which do not represent at all what I've proposed here.
TH8s would be able to make quicker progress on walls with this method. Not twice as fast, but closer to that number than the 1x they now work with with only one resource. No, they wouldn't be able to just start dumping their elixir into lvl 9 walls. Because this solution requires that ALL THs maintain the minimum cap, not just TH7/8s. That is the whole point of this thread, to address the totally unrestricted double resource dump that TH9/10s still have. Come on, man.
Please rephrase this if this isn't what you meant, as I have no idea what you're trying to say.
No level of walls run 8 million a piece, people can currently and have always been able to use gold on walls however they see fit, and nullifying the entire update would only affect elixir storages.
It's not the threshold for being able to use it on walls that is the problem, it's the fact that once you CAN use it on walls, you can totally dump both resources out of the system into them.
Having lvls 6-7 upgradeable with elixir had nothing to do with the overall economic effects that allowing only lvls 8-10 to be upgraded with elixir will fix. It's how the walls are allowed to be upgraded with elixir that is the problem. Totally unrestricted, letting players liquidate both resources out of the game, one of which is the lifeblood to raiding/farming/the entire game in the first place (elixir).
I have skull walls on my TH10, and this has nothing to do with that. I would be just as in favor of removing it entirely as I would be for fixing it in a responsible way like this. I just think that elixir for walls is a good move, like Supercell and some others have thought, but it needs to be changed so that it cannot continue to break the economy.
Then maybe you need to adjust your trophy range.
just one simple ask
did u use full army on every raid? Its time consuming if do it
just need good throphy range to find nice deadbase and we not need to look about storage anymore i think
i am a th9 and by doing mostly deadbase got it fine sometimes core a bad base with barch too
people always say th7/8 is a sweet spot but i think th9 it is when barch army get good and enough army to get 1 star
for example imanout find 1 nice storage raid every about 3 raid i skipped bcoz i use cheap army but i can farming 3 times more
I remember him (or somebody) posting that. They were referring to the cumulative 8 million to upgrade level 9, 10, and 11 walls. It's 1+3+4 million per wall, 8 million total.Please rephrase this if this isn't what you meant, as I have no idea what you're trying to say.
No level of walls run 8 million a piece, people can currently and have always been able to use gold on walls however they see fit, and nullifying the entire update would only affect elixir storages.
It took SC quite a while to fix the elixir walls issue with the current update. I suspect that if the update fixes the economy "enough", they'll leave it as is. However, a month from now, if it's still broken for TH9's and TH10's, then SC might be motivated to make a change.
I think your suggestion is a good one. Maybe not the "best", but that's going to be subjective by a lot of different standards anyway, so really there is no "best" for all players. But the overall health of the game is driven by the economy, so if SC wants people to keep paying for gems, I'm sure they'll be paying close attention to this one. How much of their gem income comes from TH8's, versus TH9's and TH10's? A maxed TH8 that refuses to upgrade his town hall until his walls are fully upgraded, versus an active TH10 who is starving for elixir?
And while we're all in the mode of ranting, it seems like the people complaining about elixir walls seem to forget that gold and elixir are not the same resource. The "exchange rate" between elixir and dark elixir is far from 1, so people have an easier time thinking that DE might be worth 10x as much as elixir in one situation, and worth 100x as much in another situation. But with gold and elixir, they assume the exchange rate is always 1 to 1, and they get upset when they don't get them in the ratio that they need. If the exchange rate is really 1 to 1, why even bother having two different resources?
It's called resource management, people. At TH8, the problem isn't that you have too much elixir. It's that you're forgetting that, at TH8, gold is worth 2x to 3x as much as elixir, maybe more. Keep that in mind when raiding. Instead of raiding when you see 150k of each resource, hold out for 200k gold, regardless of how much elixir is available. For a TH8, a 200k gold raid is worth more than a 150k/150k raid. Complaining that you have too much elixir just shows that you don't understand that gold is supposed to be scarce. Just look how much worse it used to be for TH9's and TH10's. As the game goes on, elixir is supposed to be worth less and less, at least when considering that gold is worth more and more.
That's why, personally, I'm in favor of elixir walls being available as low as TH8 or TH7, but with the elixir cost being higher than the gold cost. I.e., not just a higher minimum of elixir, but actually cost more elixir. This wouldn't necessarily solve the problem of people being able to dump elixir, but they would at least have their minds opened to the reality that the exchange rate isn't and shouldn't be 1:1. If they still have elixir upgrades (not maxed yet), and they're just looking for a way to dump elixir so it doesn't get raided (short-sighted view), then they might actually be hurting themselves by dumping it.
When I said that th8s don't need it I was referring to the grind of upgrading walls. Lvl8 walls are already cheap and they have a much more balanced need for both resources. For th9s this balance collapses (wall costs is 10 times the amount of th8) and it is only then that it needed to be balanced. At first SC thought that it needed to be balanced for lvl6 walls but after seeing it in practice it became obvious to them that lvl6 walls were too low so it was moved up.
You also have to remember that you could be in and out for th8 in less than a month, that cannot be compared to the several months of th9 plus the rest of your coc life at th10. When looking at both the time spent at each th and the cost for walls at each th it becomes clear that elixir walls shouldn't have been available for lvl6-8 walls.
You keep talking about how its affecting the economy but what I am saying refers to the demand for resources rather than supply. In the end people who say that the initial wall update broke the economy seem to forget that walls were always upgradable with gold but gold was obviously still available in some storages. Acting like it broke the economy is basically saying that there was never any gold in anybody's storages ever.
In regards to requiring me to cap storages to upgrade a single wall, that potentially halves my ability to upgrade a wall and makes the grind twice as hard. This clearly goes against the rest of what I said about balancing the grind, this would make upgrading walls so incredibly tedious for high ths while making it easier for lower levels. If you want to propose SC use this then you better come up with a reason that doesn't go in the opposite direction that SC are going in.
Alternatively if you are asking to remove it completely you will have to come up with a much better argument, one that outweighs all the benefits from fixing the lack of demand for elixir at high levels.
It won't make the grind twice as hard. Removing elixir walls completely will make it twice as hard. Let's use level 9 walls as an example, for a TH9. The suggestion means that a wall costs 1,000,000 gold, but you need 3,916,667 elixir in storage to buy the same wall. Let's assume that you farm enough to have 4M of each resource. You could then buy 5 walls total (4 gold, 1 elixir). This is 37.5% less than you could buy with no restrictions (8), and 25% more than what you could buy with gold-only walls (4). It's a reasonably fair balance.
But take it just a little further. You farm up to 5M of each resource. Now you can buy 7 walls (5 gold, 2 elixir), which is 30% less than you could buy with no restrictions (10), and 40% more than you could buy with gold alone (5).
Your grind won't by twice as long, unless you're only farming up to the 1M and dumping immediately. In which case, you don't really have that much loot to lose anyway (12% of 1M is only 120k). In which case, you're not getting pity from me. If you can farm enough to buy even one elixir wall, you're coming out at a reasonably fair place, and you lose at most 350k from one raid, which is only 1/3 of a wall anyway. Farm enough to buy 2 elixir walls, and you're getting more benefit over gold-only walls than the penalty compared to unrestricted elixir walls (40% benefit compared to 30% penalty).
It's balanced, and it's better than what you had access to before elixir walls, PLUS it keeps elixir in the economy.
I'm sorry I read over my post that you quoted but I don't know exactly what you are referencing. I didn't always use full armies on every raid as a TH8/9, when I found dead bases I would use only what I needed to get the collector loot, and the same would go for storage raids where I knew I could get by without using the entire army. TH9 used to be almost as good as TH8 for farming gold/elixir pre-elixir for walls update, and it once again should be pretty good. The real grab is that farming DE as a TH9 versus as a TH8 is multiple times as lucrative. I'm not sure if I answered your question? I don't think it has to do with this proposal either way, though.
That's actually what I'm worried about. What this update is going to do is fix the problem for TH7/8s (whatever marginal problem they had), and for the most part solve it for TH9s (for raiding TH8s below them). It will not help TH10s, and what if that's what Supercell deems appropriate? With the moves this development team have made, I honestly believe they haven't thought of something like this, although it isn't exactly rocket science. What if they can't figure out the root cause of the update that is causing economic-breaking results (which has been explained by many in here already), and they say "alright, well lvl 9-11 seems good enough, not as many are complaining" instead of actually fixing it, which they can absolutely do.
I too understand that there are two very different costs associated with gold/elixir, and the value placed on each varies even within each TH (early THs have a very high demand for elixir, established THs require more gold. There is a finite, calculable number that any person can figure out for gold requirements at their TH level, but elixir requirements are fluid and depend on both upgrades as well as army compositions, spell usage, etc.)
The problem with upping the price is that TH7-10s will still dump it all away. They will be less inclined to do so while they still have necessary elixir upgrades, but those conditions are satisfied very early on at TH7/8 and even TH9. Maybe they get hit with the realization that the two resources aren't always "equal." However once they have no need for it, it doesn't matter if a skull wall costs 3M elixir a piece, that otherwise valueless resource is getting sunk into walls.
There needs to be a compromise between not allowing it at all (although this didn't produce any problems other than a slow, familiar grind of gold for walls) and being able to dump both resources out of the game without restriction (which immediately destroyed the game economy).
Dude, absolutely NOTHING has been made obvious to Supercell. They do not understand why the economy broke from the elixir for walls update, they only know that it did. I and others have been explaining it until we've been blue in the face about WHY this happened, and this proposal would completely solve it. This is the move SC should have done with walls for elixir. They royally effed up with lvl 6-10 being allowed to upgrade using elixir without restriction, and they have continued to show incompetence by simply removing two TH levels from using it instead of fixing the system/constraints for which it's allowed.
There is a very explainable reason why gold wasn't as constantly scarce as elixir, and anyone with half an ounce of sense should know why. Quote this and ask me why if you truly don't know b/c I'm not typing out a basic level economics lesson for you unless you specifically want to get schooled in it.
No, it would only be tedious to the extent that you are dead set on only upgrading walls using elixir. 3 months ago this proposal would actually increase your ability to upgrade walls, as this feature didn't even exist. stop stop STOP pretending that we have always been able to use elixir for walls and that it worked perfectly fine while it happened. B/c overnight this game's economy took a s*** when it was introduced.
No, I don't. And there is only on benefit, not many, of fixing the lack of demand for elixir at higher levels. Walls. So stop making it seem like there's this cornucopia of positives that I'm trying to radically remove from every TH9/10's gameplay when really this would affect ONE SINGLE ASPECT that would result from it, which would be players not being able to dump all their elixir out of the game.
Better yet, give me even one benefit other than using it for walls that this update did for the demand at elixir at higher levels. Either that, or stop using the phrase "outweighs ALL the benefits" from here on out.
Having excess elixir is not a problem. It never was a problem. Having such low levels of elixir in the game that it broke the economy is very much a problem. It is purely of your opinion that higher level walls, starting arbitrarily at lvl 8 according to you, require more than just gold to upgrade. Increased level of walls, by the way, are merely a bonus and an endgame resource sink in this game.
Last edited by Goobers; December 18th, 2014 at 10:42 PM.
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