REFORM Elixir for Walls System

[Sirix]

people cam
n dump gold on wall too
and i think dump 3/4 mil elix on wall is fine
why?
Simple just like people stockpiling gold to 3-4 mil gold to an upgrade and dump on that upgrade
elix is the same
pardon me if my word to confusing
but simply if people have make 3/4 mil elix i think its a hardwork and noone raid them on the way or maybe they get raid but get back it is fine to dump it like case of gold

One big difference is that it's easy to finish useful elixir upgrades and only need to stockpile elixir every week or so when the lab is done. For example, TH8 who doesn't use dark troops/pekka (mainly barchs or dragon) only needs lab, spell factory, drills, and DE storage when needed which is only like a week's worth of upgrade with 4-5 builders.

If the person maxes walls, the remaining 2-4 months will have the elixir storage be less than 1m most of the time especially with active players who can farm a lab upgrade in 1 session

Also aren't the attackers stealing 3/4m of other people's hard work?

[Goobers]

Well no, people keep their builders busy, now if i had to keep 4 mil elixir, assuming i max both storages and spend all gold on a th10 upgrade, the amount of walls I can do per builder is halved at least, if i only manage 4-7.9 mil elix then the amount of walls i do drops from 1 to 0.

Your stupid assumptions about only farming 1 mil at a time while doing lvl9 walls and then suddenly feeling like farming 4 mil at a time when doing lvl11 walls is ridiculous. I guess you are alike with the OP with the amount of groundless assumptions you make, no wonder you agree.

And that scenario is only temporary. Once you finish your upgrades at your TH level, you are no longer restricted by the minimum loot required as a factor of builder cycles. And you bet, I did a quick add-up of the defensive building upgrades at the highest TH10, the highest TH level, and the number of upgrades is 91. I ignored traps b/c those take 2 days or less to do, and roughly 15-20 of those 91 upgrades are new building catchups which take less than 5 days to do, so you can plan your builders to still free up on a daily basis then. So, for a TH10 player farming 4M elixir a day, which at that level/loot penalty I think we could argue is probably up there with the most efficient farmers who exist, he will sacrifice about 70-75 wall pieces and only from an elixir perspective. That is like the worst-case scenario for wasted elixir in regards to wall upgrades.

If this solution fixes the economy for all TH levels, essentially bringing it back to on par with the pre-"elixir for walls" update levels, but still allows for elixir to be used for walls keeping it from being useless, is a dropoff of a hypothetical at-worst 30% reduction in wall progress at the last level, if you were to only use elixir and not gold on them, a fair compromise? For the majority of TH10s, more than likely you are nowhere near close to putting a dent in zap walls by the time you finish your upgrades allowing you to have at least one builder constantly idle, but even if you went to Clash of Clans school for Resource Management and got your Ph.D in it, like a 30% dropoff if you for some reason ignore using gold for walls and only do elixir. Keep in mind the alternative where elixir was never allowed for walls, and how much of an improvement that still is from back then.

[AlvinSoehendryWijaya]

One big difference is that it's easy to finish useful elixir upgrades and only need to stockpile elixir every week or so when the lab is done. For example, TH8 who doesn't use dark troops/pekka (mainly barchs or dragon) only needs lab, spell factory, drills, and DE storage when needed which is only like a week's worth of upgrade with 4-5 builders.

If the person maxes walls, the remaining 2-4 months will have the elixir storage be less than 1m most of the time especially with active players who can farm a lab upgrade in 1 session

Also aren't the attackers stealing 3/4m of other people's hard work?

They have stockpile 4 mil elix like gold why they can't spend it on wall
why you guys hate so much when people mAke wall a little faster

[AlvinSoehendryWijaya]

And that scenario is only temporary. Once you finish your upgrades at your TH level, you are no longer restricted by the minimum loot required as a factor of builder cycles. And you bet, I did a quick add-up of the defensive building upgrades at the highest TH10, the highest TH level, and the number of upgrades is 91. I ignored traps b/c those take 2 days or less to do, and roughly 15-20 of those 91 upgrades are new building catchups which take less than 5 days to do, so you can plan your builders to still free up on a daily basis then. So, for a TH10 player farming 4M elixir a day, which at that level/loot penalty I think we could argue is probably up there with the most efficient farmers who exist, he will sacrifice about 70-75 wall pieces and only from an elixir perspective. That is like the worst-case scenario for wasted elixir in regards to wall upgrades.

If this solution fixes the economy for all TH levels, essentially bringing it back to on par with the pre-"elixir for walls" update levels, but still allows for elixir to be used for walls keeping it from being useless, is a dropoff of a hypothetical at-worst 30% reduction in wall progress at the last level, if you were to only use elixir and not gold on them, a fair compromise? For the majority of TH10s, more than likely you are nowhere near close to putting a dent in zap walls by the time you finish your upgrades allowing you to have at least one builder constantly idle, but even if you went to Clash of Clans school for Resource Management and got your Ph.D in it, like a 30% dropoff if you for some reason ignore using gold for walls and only do elixir. Keep in mind the alternative where elixir was never allowed for walls, and how much of an improvement that still is from back then.

i just thinking about ig people can farm 4 mil elix why he cant spent all dump on wall?
he deserve it i mean he got long way to those 4 mil elix and likely when farming other have chance before he got it
dump on wall basicly what will happen is he will have wasted resources
and wasted resources is bad

and why we farming active people and say ecomony is bad when the one who do it is the one who do core raid
example A raid B (deadbase) basicly A make economy surpluss bcoz B dont use it and gonna be wasted
and C raid A(active player) in this case C get B loot from A and a double loss for economy
why? Didnt a use elix troops and c too so its a double loss and just transfering the loot with tax multi(the elix cost)
if c get raided the more elix tax happen see where the elix go and surprise who make all the loot bad

thinking through before reply please my word is little hard to diggest maybe

[Sirix]

They have stockpile 4 mil elix like gold why they can't spend it on wall
why you guys hate so much when people mAke wall a little faster

I never said they can't? I just said that there's less need to stockpile elixir to 4m so there's less ability to elixir to be stolen from them unlike gold which requires the player to have millions most of the time.

Plus it's not a little faster. It's a lot considering how you can double the wall building speed when you just want to upgrade walls and more than double when you consider how much more gold is needed to max bases than elixir. I'm perfectly fine with letting elixir go to waste too since a surplus of elixir encourages attacking, warring, donating, being active, etc

[AlvinSoehendryWijaya]

I never said they can't? I just said that there's less need to stockpile elixir to 4m so there's less ability to elixir to be stolen from them unlike gold which requires the player to have millions most of the time.

Plus it's not a little faster. It's a lot considering how you can double the wall building speed when you just want to upgrade walls and more than double when you consider how much more gold is needed to max bases than elixir. I'm perfectly fine with letting elixir go to waste too since a surplus of elixir encourages attacking, warring, donating, being active, etc

I think when they got 3 mil elix ++ they really offer enough for attacker to take if the attacker not take when it hit 4 mil and they dump well for me its all right its like when u save for gold and do your upgrade
basicly high lv wall not need caps
lower lv maybe

[Goobers]

So let me get this straight. You think maxing TH8 is more difficult than maxing TH9? I must be reading that because a bigger jump would indicate a greater degree of difficulty. So now I have someone saying TH8 is harder than TH9 and the OP saying it's easier to farm 1 billion resources than it is to farm 112.5 million gold. I'd quote a famous line from Spaceballs about being surrounded by certain people, but it would get censored.

I was just going to ignore your first post where you somehow concluded that I implied farming 112.5M gold is easier than 1B resources, but b/c you want to continue to tout this stupid red herring argument I guess I have to address it.

I said that the process of upgrading walls is less hard at TH9 b/c instead of being only able to use one resource while the other resource that could be applied to it goes wasted, you have two sets of resources at your disposal to get you these walls. It's the inconsistency across THs that is the problem, b/c as I painted out that previous example, I showed how it's so easily exploited with a very simple work-around. Obviously 1B resources is more tedious than farming 112.5M gold. Why would you think for a second that I'm unaware of that?

Oh my god. You have to sit with full storages? What a nightmare. Even WITH the full wall elixir update I STILL sat on full elixir storages for a large portion of my TH8 life. It was no different than when I was at TH7 and maxed my L7 walls with all gold. If sitting on full storages is so detrimental to you, move up to TH9. I mean, according to you it's easier so you'd be dumb not to do it.

Why? Did you have all maxed walls and were just hanging out at TH8 for the hell of it? No reasonable player wouldn't dump all excess, unneeded elixir into walls. They would do it at TH7, at TH8, at TH9, and at TH10. Once it's not needed, there's no reason not to put it into walls. Except in your attempt at discrediting his example where you just said that you just sat on full elixir storages for most of TH8 WITH the elixir for walls update, for no(?) reason.

And to your point about full storages: you're absolutely right. It's not a big deal. It caused no issues in the economy. That's why I am also in favor of removing it entirely for all TH levels. But it shouldn't be so inconsistent, in the sense that not only is it allowed at TH9/10 where TH7/8 is not, but it's allowed without restriction, which continues to ruin the economy at TH10.

The reason I made this thread was b/c I also think that being able to use excess elixir for walls is a pretty neat idea, but that it simply has to be done responsibly, where it wouldn't detrimentally imbalance the economy for higher level players.

Being a TH9 doesn't mean you get to upgrade ANY wall with elixir. If you didn't upgrade your walls to skulls before leaving TH8, then guess what? You still have to pay for skulls with gold at TH9. And do you know why people recommend doing skulls before going to TH9? Has that thought crossed you mind (or the OP's for that matter)? It's because you have so many new and expensive upgrades that focusing 500k per wall with 250 walls is incredibly difficult. This last comment just shows me that you have ZERO understanding of this update since you believe the ability to upgrade walls with elixir is associated with TH level. Perhaps you should understand what you are talking about before going on a long diatribe about it.

You have already said how easy it is to farm up 500k gold. If they are sitting on near maxed elixir storages, why wouldn't they farm up an extra 500k gold before the builder frees up, so that they can make that skull wall, then dump 4M elixir out of the system making it a lava? Christ, I have an entire half a page dedicated to explaining exactly that exploitation.

What is your real problem with this solution? Don't go sift through my posts and try to paraphrase some line and start an argument on that which detracts from what the goal of this is. What is it about requiring each TH to first hold the minimum loot required, which is essentially how it worked before the elixir for walls update, that it just becomes impossible to overcome? Back then you couldn't put any of it towards walls, in this case you can. The initial and follow-up update broke the economy at higher levels, and this wouldn't allow for that to happen.

So those are the questions I'd like you to answer, as they are on topic to what is being proposed in the first post.

- Does this solution still allow the potential to break the economy like the first one did for TH9/10, and this one does for TH10? Or does it target that exact problem and corrects it?
- Does it discriminate based on any TH level? B/c the current system does, and I made sure to structure it to go as far as to say this could be applied for every single level of wall. It would be consistent across the board.

Do you really have a problem with it? If you do, let me know specifically what is fundamentally wrong with this. If not, are you worried that if you agree with it, I'm going to parade your posts around and rub it in your face like a child? B/c I made this thread to have an adult, rational discussion about how to actually fix this issue. There are hundreds of threads made by kids who just vent without further discussion. I didn't want to do that.

Alvin's problem with it is that he thinks it will slow down wall progress a bit for very hardcore farmers. And I said that yes, that will be true. But it's only temporarily, and this would be a compromise with the idea that keeping the economy functioning at every level is worth a small sacrifice that only affects a minority of the playerbase. A sacrifice that is only a sacrifice if you look at it from within the past 3 months, by the way.

[Goobers]

They have stockpile 4 mil elix like gold why they can't spend it on wall
why you guys hate so much when people mAke wall a little faster

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate that people are upgrading their walls a little faster. On the contrary, I think it's a great idea. It's the more devastating effect that it has on the economy at higher TH levels that I have the problem with. There has to be a restriction in place. You can't encourage TH7/8/9 players to not dump all their elixir out of the system and hope that they think of the economy for those THs above them, b/c this game is very much built on a "take what you can, progress as quickly as you farm/raid." Putting this solution in place is just a preventative measure that keeps what happened after the first elixir for walls update from happening at any TH level. Beyond that initial minimum level, and when your builders free up (which will happen at TH9/10 far sooner than when you are remotely close to finishing walls), it works exactly the same way as it does now. It just eliminates the potential for crippling the economy.

I think we both understand that there's no game-breaking flaw in this. So again, that's the compromise. If you think that the temporary limitations on the amount of wall progress early on is acceptable for the benefit of having a healthy economy at higher TH levels, then you would probably be on board. If that bit of give and take isn't acceptable to you, then we are left with what we have now. I'd be disappointed, b/c I truly think this could be so much better for everyone with one simply implemented fix, but that's the situation we're looking at now.

[AlvinSoehendryWijaya]

Don't get me wrong, I don't hate that people are upgrading their walls a little faster. On the contrary, I think it's a great idea. It's the more devastating effect that it has on the economy at higher TH levels that I have the problem with. There has to be a restriction in place. You can't encourage TH7/8/9 players to not dump all their elixir out of the system and hope that they think of the economy for those THs above them, b/c this game is very much built on a "take what you can, progress as quickly as you farm/raid." Putting this solution in place is just a preventative measure that keeps what happened after the first elixir for walls update from happening at any TH level. Beyond that initial minimum level, and when your builders free up (which will happen at TH9/10 far sooner than when you are remotely close to finishing walls), it works exactly the same way as it does now. It just eliminates the potential for crippling the economy.

I think we both understand that there's no game-breaking flaw in this. So again, that's the compromise. If you think that the temporary limitations on the amount of wall progress early on is acceptable for the benefit of having a healthy economy at higher TH levels, then you would probably be on board. If that bit of give and take isn't acceptable to you, then we are left with what we have now. I'd be disappointed, b/c I truly think this could be so much better for everyone with one simply implemented fix, but that's the situation we're looking at now.

Elixir become hard bcoz people do storage raid believe me if you do proper dead base elixir is good
the reason elixir is bad more people raid active playe rthat raid other elixir spent spent without income

i have 6 mil gold and elix wait for 21 hour no one take i dump on wall bcoz i am upgrade my bk 4
i think when people have more than 4 mil make a wall and logoff is nice shouldn't any attacker take it in middle of his farming?

[Goobers]

i just thinking about ig people can farm 4 mil elix why he cant spent all dump on wall?
he deserve it i mean he got long way to those 4 mil elix and likely when farming other have chance before he got it
dump on wall basicly what will happen is he will have wasted resources
and wasted resources is bad

and why we farming active people and say ecomony is bad when the one who do it is the one who do core raid
example A raid B (deadbase) basicly A make economy surpluss bcoz B dont use it and gonna be wasted
and C raid A(active player) in this case C get B loot from A and a double loss for economy
why? Didnt a use elix troops and c too so its a double loss and just transfering the loot with tax multi(the elix cost)
if c get raided the more elix tax happen see where the elix go and surprise who make all the loot bad

thinking through before reply please my word is little hard to digest maybe

That second part is more about the economic benefit/sink of attacking inactive bases vs active bases. While it's still very much relevant to the loot situation/economy as a whole, it's not really a factor of what this thread is talking about. There are some other threads that do address this phenomenon, one involving changing the league bonus system that I've even chimed in on, but yeah it doesn't exactly belong here.

Wasted resources are bad, but having a broken economy is much worse. Some players could cap their storages and be wasting gold/elixir every time they raid while waiting for a builder that way with 8M of each, but those are just the constraints of the game. This would be similar, with the constraint being a bit more strict on elixir. Still, nothing like the constraint of not being able to use elixir for walls at all, but without the problems that come with dumping all elixir out of storages.

They have stockpile 4 mil elix like gold why they can't spend it on wall
why you guys hate so much when people mAke wall a little faster

I never said they can't? I just said that there's less need to stockpile elixir to 4m so there's less ability to elixir to be stolen from them unlike gold which requires the player to have millions most of the time.

Plus it's not a little faster. It's a lot considering how you can double the wall building speed when you just want to upgrade walls and more than double when you consider how much more gold is needed to max bases than elixir. I'm perfectly fine with letting elixir go to waste too since a surplus of elixir encourages attacking, warring, donating, being active, etc

I think when they got 3 mil elix ++ they really offer enough for attacker to take if the attacker not take when it hit 4 mil and they dump well for me its all right its like when u save for gold and do your upgrade
basicly high lv wall not need caps
lower lv maybe

But when session raiding, they'll hit that level and then dump it all out of the system. That's what we were all seeing as TH9/10s for the past 3 months. When they get 3M elixir, sure that's enough to offer a decent amount to raid. But they're not waiting around with that in the storages, it's going straight into walls. Like I said, the idle/locked-up builder dilemma is only temporary at each TH level, where they'll be able to dump both out of the system when they're free. The goal of this solution is to make it consistent across all TH levels instead of being not allowed, forcing wasteful elixir at TH7/8, but being able to be completely dumped at TH9/10.