Yup, I'll do just that. Since only you are the one with knowledge and everyone else who counter argues with you are brainless people and we have no clue. We at least try to put up a debate and you on other hand just like to belittle others. Its a waste of my time trying to talk with you when you are so narrow minded.Originally Posted by Scuba061
Nope, I always listen, but when you're suggesting that TH8 is more difficult than TH9, then you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Plus you just demonstrated that you think elixir can be used to upgrades once you reach TH9, which isn't true.
Also, your whole understanding of raidable loot is just wrong. If the best you can do is 150K total resources on a raid at TH8 against fellow TH8s, then you've got bigger problems.
Basicly what i mean is maintain the gap to be still at 8 mil
btw we focus too much on elix
I just think didn't it happen to gold as well people dump on wall and then build their defense
i am worry if this cap implemented someone gonna make fair argument to make cap for gold saying the very same reason
Firstly th9s have 4mil per wall to do, th8s only have 500k. That's 8 times the amount, not two times the amount.
Secondly don't comment on th9s looting situation when you haven't experienced it, to get the full 350k off a fellow th9 you will need a gowipe or a lavaloonion, you cannot total someone of the same level as you with a farming army anymore, so don't think that your income will increase. Most people will tell you that gph (gold per hour) actually decreases once you reach th9, and then decreases further once you reach th10.
People think lvl8 walls are easy because once they start doing th9 walls which are much harder and take much longer that's how they seem. For me to do a single wall I have to raid at least 20 times, for you to do a single 500k wall you have to raid 2 maybe 3 times. The scale is completely different at th9+ and until you actually get there don't bother commenting on it.
Gold is very different than elixir. There are far more upgrades requiring a massive amount of gold, so at all times you are stockpiling gold for at least some upgrade. People actually make the point that the disparity requirement between gold and elixir is so staggering, even excluding the wall costs. There's a reason Supercell implemented it this way. Also, elixir has a running requirement while gold has a calculable "max" requirement that can be figured out at each TH lvl. The calculable elixir costs are much lower than the gold requirements, but elixir is the lifeblood of the game. In order to attack, to use cheap vs. heavy armies, you need elixir. The need for it never ends, it's just the required "holding" amount that's much, much lower. That's why elixir for walls shouldn't be implemented on a totally unrestricted basis.
There will be times when you do keep low gold stores, but there's always the eventual need to stockpile multiple millions for all those point defenses, splash towers, etc. We've all had dry stretches in our session raiding where it seems like every other base is holding less than 50k, but it always comes back around. But once you get those few big ticket elixir upgrades out of the way, there is no other reason to stockpile elixir. So they have every incentive to dump all of it into walls. So while gold levels will fluctuate, elixir was able to be kept at minimal levels. It's why players were forced to move to BAM/BArch exclusively after the initial update if they wanted to make any elixir progress at all, and very quickly led to the broken economy we saw for TH9/10s.
I'm not even going to debate with you of the blatant effect on elixir stores that this update caused. So easy it must be for you to ignore the hell that was this economy for 3 months once they do a quick patch to fix it for TH7-10. And if it truly didn't have any detrimental effect on elixir levels or the economy as a whole, then there is no reason why it can't be put back to lvl 7-8 walls just the way it was, according to your logic. But you're still trying to make arbitrary points that it "should be for lvl 9, but lvl 8 is fine," that is makes more sense personally to you. Where are you coming up with this line you're drawing in the sand? It should be for lvl 7+. Hell, if it causes no problems to the economy, they should just make every level of wall upgradeable with either resource. And you know what? The solution you're fighting so hard against would actually allow for that, with no adverse effects at any TH lvl.
Thank you for addressing that point, but these points you're breaking up are one benefit. So this update keeps elixir valuable, correct? That's the benefit. You can use it for walls, which keeps elixir valuable beyond having just enough to keep a running army cost for attacks. And I agree, before this update I would always be looking for high gold raids, understanding that when I needed to I could pretty much always make at least my elixir costs back. But the opposite spectrum, it being vastly removed from the game, is a very real problem. There is always a running need for elixir, just not at very high levels. But when that supply gets taken away, not only when elixir becomes less available, but goes so scare that it actually forces players to abandon 90% of the troops in the game if they don't want to go resource-negative, then there's a real problem. And we saw it these past 3 months.
It didn't make them "consider" what troops they were going to use, it forced them to stop using anything that wasn't the cheapest option per housing space b/c elixir stores on a grand scale simply weren't there anymore. The only reason you didn't use pekkas/dragons was time, but then you also couldn't b/c it's also impossible to ever break even given the current environment. That's messed up. Not every troops combination should be guaranteed profitable, but the economy shouldn't be so broken as to force players to completely write those possibilities off for good.
Great idea!
Guy, how am I supposed to explain to you how it's broken when the arguments you're making against me are contradicting YOURSELF? You don't farm gold to elixir at an 8 to 1 ratio. You farm it at roughly a 1:1 ratio, maybe a little more, maybe a little less. Let's say it swings 2:1 or 1:2 at the most extreme cases across the overall span of the game. I never said I'm a hardcore farmer. This doesn't even have anything to do with me but everything to do with the overall playerbase. So you're farming at 1:1, but you're capped at elixir. How does that happen? B/c you have FAR more buildings that require gold than elixir. So it's not that you're farming elixir at a higher rate, you're just able to dump all the excess out the system now at TH9/10 at an insane rate. That is a very big problem when you need elixir to build your armies. We have seen the effect of this when elixir for walls was allowed, totally unrestricted, from TH7-10.
Btw, thank you for at least not acknowledging Gama's insane assertion that elixir for walls didn't totally muck up the economy in the first place, as that's what he's chosen as of recent to try and derail the conversation with.
The example you're using here is in regards to me saying how TH9s can dump their excess elixir out of the game even when they don't have all skull walls, which is the scenario that you said would solve the dilemma of double resource dumping. I merely pointed out that they only need 500k gold for every 4M of elixir they can dump into walls. It exploits the system to let all resources get dumped from the economy, just as easily as it was able to be done when lvl 7-11 were able to do it. The only difference is that now, TH7 and TH8s can't do it, but TH9/10s can. It's inconsistent. Can we at least agree on that?
That is why I'm OFFERING the way around it! This would allow TH7s and TH8s to continue to be able to upgrade to skull walls with elixir, but it wouldn't let them bring it down below the maximum lootable level. As a TH9, you will still be able to hit those TH8s as if they had maxed storages, but they would also be able to upgrade walls and avoid wasted, overflowing storages. How is that not fair? It doesn't even hurt your own personal farming in any way!
Can we ignore the past 10-11 pages, pretend like you're not totally invested in not backing down from these arguments you're making that are simply inconsistent, and look at that above point for a moment? Is that not fair? Doesn't it help out TH7/8s with the nuisance that we experienced when we were that level before this was allowed? Does it adversely mess up the economy, at all? If so, where/how? If not, is it not completely reasonable to implement this for lvl 7-11 walls?
Last edited by Goobers; December 20th, 2014 at 04:11 PM.
I have addressed this several times already. Its not about the effect on the economy, but the difficulty of doing walls (10x the cost at th9). Even on this thread you have several th8s complaining that skulls are really hard, don't you think they will just give up when doing legos then? Elixir walls balances the grind at higher levels, where its needed, its not needed at lower levels. Furthermore excess elixir only becomes clear at th9 and 10, due to the time you spend at those ths and the quantity disparity with gold demand. It isn't arbitrary at all once you look at those.
You have no evidence of this at all, people are still raiding with heavy armies where I am, but you make it sound like they cannot even train barch.
Its ridiculous that people could farm with expensive armies to begin with. You got some background in economics so you should understand the concept of minimising costs to maximise profits right? And similar to above, you have no evidence that people are no longer raiding with heavy armies, whereas I have evidence they are, my defence log.
Your whole solution is built on the assumption that there is a crisis of some sort, but there is no evidence for that. Sure people are being more conscious of how much elixir they have remaining, but they should be, that's why elixir is a resource with a quantity, not something that people never run out of. Before everyone would spam spells whenever, only being aware of the time it takes to make more, but now I don't, even if I have 5 spells ready Im not just going to use them without a clear benefit anymore, as elixir means something now.
Last edited by Gama321; December 20th, 2014 at 04:12 PM.
people can dump gold on wall too
and i think dump 3/4 mil elix on wall is fine
why?
Simple just like people stockpiling gold to 3-4 mil gold to an upgrade and dump on that upgrade
elix is the same
pardon me if my word to confusing
but simply if people have make 3/4 mil elix i think its a hardwork and noone raid them on the way or maybe they get raid but get back it is fine to dump it like case of gold
Last edited by AlvinSoehendryWijaya; December 20th, 2014 at 05:35 PM.
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