Give us back the upgrade of the walls!!!

[onetime302]

I strongly agree its a terrible idea. I think it was perfect. I like having the option to use elixer or gold to upgrade walls. I think this was terrible change. Let us decide how we want to spend our res. Really sucks. I think you should have left it the way it was at least for the players who are like myself. Th 7 was getting ready to upgrade walls using both gold and elixer. Now you have taken my entire plan away. I think you should have only made the change for players who were. Not a high enough lvl th and walls yet. The people who are aready at those levels as of the change shouldnt have been affected.

[sl1mreaper]

Revamping the output of gold and elixir collectors for all levels!!!!! Like I said earlier all this update is going to do is send TH10's and 9's down to 1300 trophies to farm the overfilled collectors of TH8's. So making the wall upgrade just for TH9 and above is not going to fix the problem. All its going to do is set up an economy where high levels farm lower levels then spend those resources on walls. Really fair I'd say. How about setting up an extra loot bonus for each star you score on someone on your own TH level or above? And like I said revamp the gold/elixir/DE output on collectors for all TH levels. Giving the later TH levels a considerable boost in resource production.

IF you all can't see it the new metagame is going to be trash. All big boys pick on the overfilled little boys. Also they need to give more elixir upgrades for TH8 this is some of the problem as well.

So changing the wall upgrade is not going to fix the problem. Because the big guys will just get fat off the little guy. Well that's how our country runs so why not expect it in a game.

[ytpo]

Many many our TH8's players in clan lost passion for game w/o elixired walls. Booooring. Game is measured now and all of us just the same. We don't have individuality. Don't have choice between ways to development our bases. I played with gems and speeded up builders then my elixir collectors was almost full. For building walls of course. Nowadays I'm not seeing reasons for myself to buy gems anymore. TH8 hasn't gold for walls at all because we close your defects in defence before up to TH9. There are 2-3 upgrade steps almost in each defence construction! Nonsense.

[Pob81]

Since SC closed some of the long standing loot threads some of it may be lost. Goobers, Scuba and a few others may still have links to them. My information comes from a number of sources varying from my TH10 and TH9 clan mates, my own 3 accounts including a nearly maxed TH9, a maxed TH8 (that was rushed directly from 6 to 8, then slow grind), and a new TH8 that has never rushed even a single wall, many discussions with players of various dedication on the forum, a solid understanding of basic supply/demand economic principles and a fair amount of number crunching. That said, I will make an attempt at summarizing.

We all have collectors that can be maxed at TH7. TH10 gets one more of each. That means that TH8 and TH9 generate the same income as a TH7. TH10 gets a 17% pay raise. The TH10 cost of upgrading archer towers (gold, I know but this is just a general example of magnitude) only is just a shade over 7000% higher than TH7. That is a 7000% spending increase with a 17% income increase. Anybody with a 2+2=4 understanding of math can see that loot must come from somewhere else. Reading through this thread and others one of the main complaints is "but I have so much left over elixir!" . . . Guess where TH9 and TH10 used to get their elixir? In the old economy TH7-8 could not spend it fast enough. Once elixir for walls was a reality everybody sunk their elixir into walls and overnight nobody (a generalization) had more than 200,000 in their storages.

So as a TH10 what do you do? All of the maxed TH10's spent their long stockpiled elixir on the walls they were grinding with gold. The maxed TH9's did the same. The TH8's did the same. So TH10's are supposed to attack TH7's now for loot? That doesn't work because of the loot penalty. Even if the TH7 has filled storages and pumps the TH10 will barely get the cost of their barch army back. In days past they could at least drop to gold and farm inactive bases but SC has removed those from circulation (which is good game design, just poorly timed and implemented). All that is left is for high TH9 and TH10's to next next next next around hoping to snipe a league bonus or stumble upon a base that was trying to save up for one big upgrade. Sometimes these bases are semi-frequent, usually they are not.

So SC changes the threshold for when you can dump elixir into walls. This forces players to save up more before they can spend it. Inevitably there will be a higher number of players who log off before they get to that spending threshold and this will directly create more villages with raid-worthy loot. I know it sucks to get raided but that is the sole purpose of this game. You are supposed to do it and it is supposed to be done to you. Giving people a reason and or forcing them to save funds is what makes the game playable.

The number of details and variables that can flesh out that very basic breakdown are staggering and if you do decide to search through the loot threads that are still alive (good luck getting through the flames without missing the information) there will be a lot to absorb. Because of this it is very difficult for those who have never played late TH9 and TH10 to understand and thus accept that CoC was very sick, and that sickness was rapidly expanding it's way into TH8 and new TH9 gameplay levels. If it had been allowed to go much longer it may (pure theory here because they have made adjustments that will likely prevent it) have had a very negative impact on new players. As TH8 loot dried up they would have leaned much harder on TH6 and TH7 bases to find their loot. This is how recession works both in game and real life. Spend more than you make, keep doing it, insist there is not a problem, convince yourself it is good because XXX or YYY, keep going, then complain when the whole thing collapses. Reversing the trend will be received negatively by some but the only alternative is complete collapse. SC had to slow spending or CoC was dead.

<<<EDIT>>>
I went to the length of digging up one of my larger attempts at detailing the economic collapse as it was happening a few months ago. There are about 400 pages of conversation after my initial post and 640 before it. Most of it is simple complaining, flaming and bickering but the history, explanation and many, many ideas both good and bad for are contained in this thead and a handful of others. I will let you dig those up on your own if you have a few days to finish the reading and a high tolerance for ♥♥ between useful information.

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...thread/page640

Thank you for this reply. While I accept it as a theory there is no real facts. I read through your old thread post and appreciate the time you took to find it but having read it and contemplating I find it is slightly flawed.

Going back to the grocery and petrol station owner. They have 1 option in a town of 2people but they are not a town of 2 any more they have all the food and all the fuel and the only way they can go is up. By default all there money will be ploughed into there businesses for themselves, but to do bigger things they need more from the smaller people and as such because there are more people at the bottom they have a more sustainable income. The only really way to allow a better balance is is to allow other people to open more shops and provide them with help, otherwise this game become a pyramid scheme where, the top players become unreachable.

You see it appears from this post (and although only an example) you appear to have looked at the short term goal and failed to forsee the eventual outcome.

Quite simply if town hall 10 are attacking town hall 7, 8 and 9 then who attacks town hall 10s and steals their resources. In the end it is all about balance, what we actually say is not based on facts as we don't have databases available to analyse. Our evidence is down to personal experience only, yes we can use basic information about how much an archer towers costs but as you will be well aware to come up with a real conclusion we would have to look at algorithms that probably doesn't exist at this moment in time. Until that time we will have to agree to disagree.

I hope you can appreciate what I am saying and although I could go on, I am going to try hold off from making many more comment to prevent spamming the thread

[Bluedevil5510]

Before whenever there was no complaining in clash we actually had to upgrade walls with gold instead of both gold and elixir. Can you believe it?!? I know neither can I. Just deal with the update and farm like the rest of us did mate. Have a nice day

[TheKolinator]

What is the point of this thread? Lol... We farmed our level 9 walls post update, Now why don't you try out the boost grind you baby! What do you do on clash anyways? Collect from pumps and raid 1-2 per day if that... EDIT: Just so that I don't get spam hate comments saying I'm full of lies lol My Base :
http://imgur.com/MBuc8qt

[Nyulol]

People were grinding walls with gold only before, so I really don't understand all the crying about walls.
We now just hit a compromise between upgrading with only gold and upgrading with gold/elixier.
Change is always part of a game, you know?

[Xitra]

Many many our TH8's players in clan lost passion for game w/o elixired walls. Booooring. Game is measured now and all of us just the same. We don't have individuality. Don't have choice between ways to development our bases. I played with gems and speeded up builders then my elixir collectors was almost full. For building walls of course. Nowadays I'm not seeing reasons for myself to buy gems anymore. TH8 hasn't gold for walls at all because we close your defects in defence before up to TH9. There are 2-3 upgrade steps almost in each defence construction! Nonsense.

Okay, so I got bored, went to the Clash wikia page, and ran the numbers for TH7. These numbers represent the cost of building and research upgrades, only for newly unlocked buildings and upgrades. Sorry for any mistakes, I threw these together quickly.

Total elixir costs: 57,099,450
Total Gold Costs*: 37,606,300
* excluding level 7 walls
Elixir OR Gold (L7 walls): 35,000,000

So before the update, you needed way more elixir at TH7. Like, almost 20 million more elixir. Plus you needed to spend elixir on armies in order to farm or do clan wars or donate troops. On top of that, people could "hide" it in their barracks, AND they could dump any excess into walls. You could even dump it into a spell research, when all your builders were busy. Heck, you could build a huge army and "waste" elixir going after trophies or just having fun. How do you "blow" a bunch of gold? Hit Next over and over and over????

So even at TH7, these numbers say there should have been a scarcity of elixir. And that's just what the TH9's and TH10's are reporting. So just because a few of you are flush with elixir, that doesn't make these numbers magically change. These numbers are fixed. Count yourself lucky that your elixir storages are overflowing.

Now, let's look post-update.
Total elixir costs: 57,099,450
Total Gold costs (including walls): 72,606,300

Now you need about 15 million more gold than elixir. Except that, by the time you've maxed TH7 (after months, if you're not gemming), you've easily spent many millions of elixir on armies, even if you're only Barching. If you're in clan wars using spells and exotic (expensive) beasts of war, then you've easily spent TENS of millions.

Quite frankly, level 7 is fairly balanced. If you're crying about excess elixir, then focus your farming on gold and don't attack just because you see a ton of elixir available to loot.

I haven't run the numbers for level 8, but I really don't see an issue for level 7 town halls.

[W00F]

I was so excited when we first received the ability to upgrade walls with elixer. I thought it was an incredible idea and I felt like supercell really hit a home run. I swear... it was probably one of the best simple fixes of any of these games I've seen.

Right now I'm extremely disappointed. Now I wonder if my walls will ever get upgraded and how long everything else will take. What will I do with all this elixer? !?! I feel like my upgrades will be so slow that now I debate on whether or not to quit altogether.

This change was so huge and drastically changes my view of the game as well as developers. I actually felt like the developers weren't that greedy. After this change, I feel like greed might actually play a role and I'm reluctant to spend more money. I'm being for real and not just saying this to get what I want.

[W00F]

Okay, so I got bored, went to the Clash wikia page, and ran the numbers for TH7. These numbers represent the cost of building and research upgrades, only for newly unlocked buildings and upgrades. Sorry for any mistakes, I threw these together quickly.

Total elixir costs: 57,099,450
Total Gold Costs*: 37,606,300
* excluding level 7 walls
Elixir OR Gold (L7 walls): 35,000,000

So before the update, you needed way more elixir at TH7. Like, almost 20 million more elixir. Plus you needed to spend elixir on armies in order to farm or do clan wars or donate troops. On top of that, people could "hide" it in their barracks, AND they could dump any excess into walls. You could even dump it into a spell research, when all your builders were busy. Heck, you could build a huge army and "waste" elixir going after trophies or just having fun. How do you "blow" a bunch of gold? Hit Next over and over and over????

So even at TH7, these numbers say there should have been a scarcity of elixir. And that's just what the TH9's and TH10's are reporting. So just because a few of you are flush with elixir, that doesn't make these numbers magically change. These numbers are fixed. Count yourself lucky that your elixir storages are overflowing.

Now, let's look post-update.
Total elixir costs: 57,099,450
Total Gold costs (including walls): 72,606,300

Now you need about 15 million more gold than elixir. Except that, by the time you've maxed TH7 (after months, if you're not gemming), you've easily spent many millions of elixir on armies, even if you're only Barching. If you're in clan wars using spells and exotic (expensive) beasts of war, then you've easily spent TENS of millions.

Quite frankly, level 7 is fairly balanced. If you're crying about excess elixir, then focus your farming on gold and don't attack just because you see a ton of elixir available to loot.

I haven't run the numbers for level 8, but I really don't see an issue for level 7 town halls.

Why would I max research on unused troop types? It makes my war strength go up without the ability to win more battles....