Winter-Update-Post-your-FEEDBACK-here

[daz258]

The only thing I see right now is that TH 9s and TH 10s are so happy that TH 7s and TH 8s cannot upgrade their walls with elixir anymore, that they deliberatly ignore the fact that, if TH 7s and TH 8s upgrade their walls with gold only, they will probably have to continue raiding with full elixir storages, thus the raided elixir that exceeds the capacity of their elixir storages will be unusable by no one. And considering that a TH 8 needs 177 millions more gold than elixir, the amount of elixir lost might be quite considerable.

I read your long post, and kudos on putting in the time and detail; that is a seriously good effort.

It has one quite serious flaw though, it does not consider donations; you will never get into a good clan without putting in some serious donation work. And that is not just limited to archers, but also wizards & dragons. They too put a drain on your elixir supply.

Your numbers also give no room at all for spells, if you are dark elixir farming in particular these are essential and elixir army costs balloon exponentially when farming for dark elixir. Raiding at an elixir loss while farming dark elixir is not uncommon.

Furthermore, trying to draw a comparison between total cost of gold & elixir upgrades is futile if you are doing it with a one dimension view of just one town hall. There are 4 town halls that have a significant impact on todays economy. Ranging from TH7 to TH10. If you were serious about thinking about the economy you would consider the difference for all of these town halls.

I am not going to pull the exact numbers, but the difference in gold & elixir costs balloon considerably at TH9 & TH10. They need the option to have elixir walls far more than TH7 & TH8 do. Due to the simple fact that every wall upgrade at TH9 costs a net total of $1 billion resources, and the net cost of TH10 wall upgrades also costs $1 billion resources.

[tomek]

Nice Update !
Nice Theme !
New helpful lvl for collectors and mines
I dont use giants, so I dont care about the new level
Layout Safer is priceless!
Local Leaderboard for clans -> nice to see
Under attack live watch Good improvement
Combat balancing would be nice if there would be a review to the old stats

No xmas tree until now

Thx SC

[iDrakon]

I read your long post, and kudos on putting in the time and detail; that is a seriously good effort.

It has one quite serious flaw though, it does not consider donations; you will never get into a good clan without putting in some serious donation work. And that is not just limited to archers, but also wizards & dragons. They too put a drain on your elixir supply.

Your numbers also give no room at all for spells, if you are dark elixir farming in particular these are essential and elixir army costs balloon exponentially when farming for dark elixir. Raiding at an elixir loss while farming dark elixir is not uncommon.

Furthermore, trying to draw a comparison between total cost of gold & elixir upgrades is futile if you are doing it with a one dimension view of just one town hall. There are 4 town halls that have a significant impact on todays economy. Ranging from TH7 to TH10. If you were serious about thinking about the economy you would consider the difference for all of these town halls.

I am not going to pull the exact numbers, but the difference in gold & elixir costs balloon considerably at TH9 & TH10. They need the option to have elixir walls far more than TH7 & TH8 do. Due to the simple fact that every wall upgrade at TH9 costs a net total of $1 billion resources, and the net cost of TH10 wall upgrades also costs $1 billion resources.

Again with the donations. Our clan does not donate any troop higher then giants unless its for war.

Donations are like the the "well I use dragons to farm" excuse. This is your fault for wasting elixir and no one elses.

And when you farm for dark elixir, you not only lose elixir you lose gold too. So its cancels out using dark elixir as an excuse.
Troops/Spells (Elixir) = Search/Repairs (Gold)

[irmtfan]

if TH 7s and TH 8s upgrade their walls with gold only, they will probably have to continue raiding with full elixir storages, thus the raided elixir that exceeds the capacity of their elixir storages will be unusable by no one.

That is exactly happen to me yesterday and today.
I wrote my opinions in several threads but I think nothing will change.
I just want to tell you I can farm for my walls lvl7 at TH7 with or without elixir. With gold only purpose I should raid more and hit next more to find better loot. Base on my 5 days experience after implementing recent update in Crystal 3 and Crystal 2 you find gold less and less and elixir more and more.
Now I have full expose elixir and also DE storage. So I leave them expose for everyone benefit. All elixir and DE from raids and bonus will remove from the system.

I cannot consume my elixir and DE on anything. My time is limit for donation and I prefer to non-stop raiding.( i can donate anything up to dragon and hog riders)
Also I cannot use costly army because the time is my enemy. I use the fastest army (BAM).

Anyway I think nothing will change.

[Nameless74]

I read your long post, and kudos on putting in the time and detail; that is a seriously good effort.

It has one quite serious flaw though, it does not consider donations; you will never get into a good clan without putting in some serious donation work. And that is not just limited to archers, but also wizards & dragons. They too put a drain on your elixir supply.

Your numbers also give no room at all for spells, if you are dark elixir farming in particular these are essential and elixir army costs balloon exponentially when farming for dark elixir. Raiding at an elixir loss while farming dark elixir is not uncommon.

Furthermore, trying to draw a comparison between total cost of gold & elixir upgrades is futile if you are doing it with a one dimension view of just one town hall. There are 4 town halls that have a significant impact on todays economy. Ranging from TH7 to TH10. If you were serious about thinking about the economy you would consider the difference for all of these town halls.

I am not going to pull the exact numbers, but the difference in gold & elixir costs balloon considerably at TH9 & TH10. They need the option to have elixir walls far more than TH7 & TH8 do. Due to the simple fact that every wall upgrade at TH9 costs a net total of $1 billion resources, and the net cost of TH10 wall upgrades also costs $1 billion resources.

Thanks for your comments daz258.

Indeed, donations and spells have been ignored due to their unpredictability but I understand that from someone else's point of view it could be a deliberate attempt to further the cause for the return for elixir walls for TH 8s at least. It is good to realize however that the post I made was already too long and could not account for these things without a huge increase in length.

The comparison with TH 7 is quite easy to see from SuperR0ck's table. The need in elixir is 30 million while the need in gold is nearly 65. The ratio between both is slightly over 2 gold per 1 elixir while for TH 8, the ratio is nearly 4. As you stated, the walls for TH 9s and TH 10s cost in total 1 billion in resources (roughly 8 times the cost of walls for a TH 8). For a TH 9, the total cost of all other upgrades can be estimated to be roughly twice as much as a TH 8 (while in that case, roughly 4 times as much as a TH 7). For a TH 10, the total cost of all upgrades can be estimated to be roughly 1,5 as much as a TH 9 (this number may be very inaccurate), which would then make a TH 10 3 times more expensive than a TH 8 and thus 6 times more expensive than a TH 7.

While it may seem that my focus was solely for TH 8 in my document, similar tables for TH 9s and TH 10s would have just further demonstrated the need for walls to be upgradable with elixir at TH 9 and TH 10 as well. Unfortunately, keeping those walls to be upgradable with elixir at those level is what is causing the elixir shortage in the economy. Your costs are too high compared to whole community's capacity to produce! However, I do not want that Supercell takes away that possibility of upgrading walls at TH 9 nor TH 10 and hence why I presented certain recommendations in my long post.

If you would reread only the recommendations that I made, at least two of them could directly benefit TH 9s and TH 10s that are in higher leagues. One of them was to allow the league loot bonus to be obtained also on revenge attacks and the other was to allow the player to adjust the ratios of the bonuses. Say that the loot bonus is currently 50k gold and 50k elixir, well, the sum of these resources is 100k. The recommendation would be that the player could decide to get 100k elixir instead of getting 50/50 of each. The league bonus is quite negligible for lower leagues so it would not affects the lower level players.

Another recommendation was concerning the community's total resource production which seems to be in complete disbalance with the quantity of TH 9s and TH 10s that need 1 billion in resource to upgrade their walls for example. What this means there are more and more people trying to feed off the same loaf of bread everyday. Consequently, it is good to understand that whenever someone upgrades to TH 9 and TH 10, it is bad news for the other currently at those levels. It would simply make more sense to find a way to increase that total resource production and to focus it directly at TH 9 and TH 10, rather than hope for the best that resources will move up the ladder.

In any cases, I did focus on the TH 8's situation but I also paid good attention to the needs of the TH 9s and TH 10s, although most of them did not see due to being too long.

[irmtfan]

However, I do not want that Supercell takes away that possibility of upgrading walls at TH 9 nor TH 10

So I repeat my question for the third time.
who guarantee that when I reach TH9 4 months later I could still be able to dump my elixir on walls? maybe rules will be changed again to gold only for walls lvl9 too.
Changing rules from time to time would be totally unfair.
If using elixir on walls was a mistake in the first place, removing it is a bigger mistake. You cannot undo anything in a real time game.
Still insist that i can accept any challenge and can farm for my walls with gold only. I just want to show you the mistakes.

[Aethelbeorne]

This issue, Aethebelorne, is an engineering issue. The chart and calculations that I have presented in my "incredibly long" post are what Supercell should have done in the first place. In no way, my intentions were to prove that walls upgradable with elixir had to return for TH 7s and TH 8s. If my post appears to show that I support the return, it is simply that considering all factors* available at that time, it made more sense to return that option for TH 8s (at least). In other words, I tried to be as impartial as possible. Consequently, if the data and calculations would have supported the change, I would have had no problem to admit it.

To reply directly to your post. During my raiding sessions, I have to skip so many times because they offer only 30k and 30k elixir or something as such, and they have underleveled walls. Am I thinking they dumped all their gold or elixir into their walls? Nope, because I can see that their walls are underleveled. They have no loot either because someone else raided them before, they did not upgrade their own collectors and mines, or they simply used their loot to upgrade some other stuffs on their base.

The only thing I see right now is that TH 9s and TH 10s are so happy that TH 7s and TH 8s cannot upgrade their walls with elixir anymore, that they deliberatly ignore the fact that, if TH 7s and TH 8s upgrade their walls with gold only, they will probably have to continue raiding with full elixir storages, thus the raided elixir that exceeds the capacity of their elixir storages will be unusable by no one. And considering that a TH 8 needs 177 millions more gold than elixir, the amount of elixir lost might be quite considerable.

Secondly, if you are TH 10 Aethebelorne, in the event that there would be any improvement whatsoever on the elixir economy, you will probably not see it at all, because the TH 9s will still be dumping their elixir into their walls. Once Supercell will see that there is still no economic improvement for TH 10s, it will probably take away that option from the TH 9s as well. At that time, even more people will be annoyed and now it will also be the TH 9s that will be complaining. It really doesn't take a genius to be able to predict that Supercell, unless it decides to change something drastically on the mines and collectors' output or the league bonuses, will take away the wall upgrades with elixir from TH 9s in the next big update.

If I was a TH 9 today, I'd definitely focus on my walls until completion. lol

Yes I am a maxed th10 except for walls and heroes. I never use elixir for walls as i need it to build army and make spells to rate and to donate pekkas and wizards during war.

When i was th7, th8, and th9, i almost always have near full elixir storage, so i donate lots of pekkas, dragons, and wizards to my clan mates to help them in their raiding. You can donate lots of good troops to help others. It is a choice.

if i remember correctly, someone suggested upgrading walls with elixir back in 2012, and it was ruled out. I was very shocked to see this being implemented.

Yes th9 will still be dumping their elixir on their walls, but that is only for level 9 walls. Later on, they will have to store more than 3.2 million elixir to upgrade to level 10 walls, and we th10 can still raid their elixir.

To me, the best way is to disallow the upgrading of walls using elixir. We all need elixir to build troops and make spells.

If so many players (including me and lots of my friends who are th10 farmers) can get their walls to level 7, level 8, level 9, level 10, and even level 11, you guys can do it too. That 177 million gold is a very small amount.

[Aethelbeorne]

So I repeat my question for the third time.
who guarantee that when I reach TH9 4 months later I could still be able to dump my elixir on walls? maybe rules will be changed again to gold only for walls lvl9 too.
Changing rules from time to time would be totally unfair.
If using elixir on walls was a mistake in the first place, removing it is a bigger mistake. You cannot undo anything in a real time game.
Still insist that i can accept any challenge and can farm for my walls with gold only. I just want to show you the mistakes.

When th9 was the max level of townhall, level 3 xbows cost 8 million each. After th10 was released, many new levels were added to previous buildings and the prices of those upgrades drop.

eg level 3 xbows used to be 8 million gold. When level 4 xbows is introduced, level 3 xbows became 7 million. Did we complain? No.

This game is always evolving.

[daz258]

Another recommendation was concerning the community's total resource production which seems to be in complete disbalance with the quantity of TH 9s and TH 10s that need 1 billion in resource to upgrade their walls for example. What this means there are more and more people trying to feed off the same loaf of bread everyday. Consequently, it is good to understand that whenever someone upgrades to TH 9 and TH 10, it is bad news for the other currently at those levels. It would simply make more sense to find a way to increase that total resource production and to focus it directly at TH 9 and TH 10, rather than hope for the best that resources will move up the ladder.

I quite like your posts, and this point really jumps at me.

No doubt the fact that TH9 & TH10 needing $1 billion net resource for walls is the fundamental root of the games economy issues. It's probably fair to say SuperCell never foresaw the impact high level walls on the game.

I would also like to point out I don't necessarily think this solution from SuperCell is a good one. However I do believe it is better than allowing elixir walls to start as low at lv 7. Not just from an economic point of view - but also as a way to assist with the cost of the very expensive walls.

As for suggestions, I also proposed one that would lock elixir walls until lv 10+ ONLY. The intent here was also to slow down TH9 & TH10s ability to flush elixir out of the game. While maintaining the assistance to make walls easier at the most expensive end. Where they cost $3 million & $4 million each. I know this isn't a popular suggestion, but what it does is ensure even high level farmers cannot crush their elixir storages until it holds $3 million mimimim. I will totally raid someone for elixir if it had that much loot in it.

Looking further back, I was very concerned for the games economy the second elixir walls were announced. No matter what lv they can be built they will be a burden on the economy. Changing the level lock out can control the issue somewhat, but unfortunately while elixir walls exist. Elixir economy issues will too exist.

What SuperCell really should have done though was NEVER introduce elixir walls, and instead give players the option to use elixir or gold for next fees. That way players with abundant elixir can at least save every cent of their gold from been wasted nexting - another issue in the games economy. This would allow a further use for elixir without giving it the potential to be cleaned out entirely. Which is exactly what walls do, allow even full storages to disappear in seconds. And no-one likes raiding bases with empty storages, that just creates more nexting.

That is the painful reality of clash of clans, walls are a burden on the economy and why we next so much.

Thankfully this update has at least introduced lv 12 pumps to the game to help increase the supply of loot. That may help, but only if an adequate number of payers actually bother to update them. Only time will tell with that one.

At the very least, I think SuperCell have taken the right steps into fixing what is a very bad economy in this update.

[irmtfan]

When th9 was the max level of townhall, level 3 xbows cost 8 million each. After th10 was released, many new levels were added to previous buildings and the prices of those upgrades drop.

eg level 3 xbows used to be 8 million gold. When level 4 xbows is introduced, level 3 xbows became 7 million. Did we complain? No.

This game is always evolving.

These are minor changes. One million altering is nothing in compare with the walls.
One minor change in this update is reducing giant price for lower levels.
Also IMO adding DE drill for TH7 and the 2nd DE for TH8 is a minor change.
Anyway I dont care about what supercell think or do. I just play the game and accept challenges.

only if an adequate number of payers actually bother to update them. Only time will tell with that one.

Based on what I see thru my nexting in current 4 days, many people are upgrading mines and collectors.
I even see many people TH10 and TH9 put 5 builders for mines/collectors upgrading. So good news will coming to the loot