DE zapping is as much of a problem as TH9s steam rolling TH7s for the the easy loot. Most people would say its just apart of the game, and I agree.
DE zapping is as much of a problem as TH9s steam rolling TH7s for the the easy loot. Most people would say its just apart of the game, and I agree.
Let me preface this by saying that I'm not going to read 11 entire pages to see what arguments have already been raised, so I apologize in advance if my responses to your points have already been articulated elsewhere. Anyway:
So I'm not trying to be cheeky here, but you'll make your post/discussion a lot more accessible if you relax your tone/diction. Currently, you sound like this.Originally Posted by azlaier
No, you don't get to say that. You can argue it, but it's only your opinion that there's no way to counter zapping. It doesn't bode well for a discussion if from the outset you already claim that your argument can't be falsified.
The definition of counter is "to do something in defense or in response to something," which can certainly overlap with "avoidance," as you put it. Furthermore, your second point about zapping being an option at any trophy range is largely irrelevant because realistically, no one will zap your storages below 1000 trophies or above about 2200; that is, you're trying to dismiss avoidance as an option on the basis that it's still possible to get zapped by changing trophy count, even if doing so reduces the likelihood to a completely negligible percent.
Gold and elixir can still get zapped, even if not at a lucrative rate for the attacker – point being, if you're going to take issue with zapping because you can't defend against it, you need to take issue with the zapping of any resource, since you can't prevent the zapping of resources other than DE as well. But, since your post only takes issue with the zapping of DE, I submit this as evidence that you're more concerned with the loss of DE as opposed to the loss of DE specifically through zapping.
And, mind you, it should be mentioned that getting zapped then sniped almost always means losing less DE than a scenario in which you're 3-starred and all your available DE is taken.
You've equated zapping with "the way to farm DE," and that is the reason you take such an issue with this. Zapping is not prevalent like you claim it is. The vast majority of players lose their DE to higher-TH giant-based attacks – I'm sure you'll agree here. The fact that zapping is able to overcome defenses is not inherently problematic, so you need to provide reasoning for why it is, since currently, all you're doing is making the obvious observation that lightning can be dropped without regard for defensive strength. As in – yeah, so what? What's your point? Why is this bad? All you're doing is pointing it out and not telling me why there's a problem.
For reference, here is an example of how you might argue why it's a problem, including reasoning (note: I do not support this argument): farming DE with lightning is a problem because it allows so many people to farm me that I can't ever save up for any upgrades.
Once again, all you're doing here is making observations but not relating them back to your argument. Why does it matter that zapping is any of these things? You can use these characteristics of zapping as proof that it's problematic, but only if you first prove that zapping is a problem to begin with. Up until this point in the post, you have not stated why zapping actually affects you negatively – all you've done is describe it in enormous detail.
What do you get out of condescending to any potential replies?
This is the actual irrelevant conclusion – why does it matter that you can't revenge zappers to recollect your DE? Farming through revenges is a terrible way to farm anyway, since at any point, your target may have a shield, may not have enough resources, may be online too long for you to wait, may be too strong for you to attack, or may be too low of a TH level relative to yourself causing the loot multiplier to make revenge-farming pointless. That is to say, what you're doing here is defeating an argument that shouldn't be considered to begin with.
"Early to mid TH9s" is vague, so I'll assume you're referring to TH9s that don't have 2 level 6 DE drills. Well, what can I tell you – you've unknowingly discovered a way to counter zapping without having to do any work: upgrading your DE drills. With maxed TH9 DE drills, supposing you are sniped and zapped, you will lose, at most, 1312 DE*, and given your 12-hour shield, your DE drills will make you back 2400 DE*; as in, at TH9, all one has to do to in order to nullify the losses of zapping is get both DE drills to level 6.
* In the worst case, a TH9 attacker zaps you with 4 level 5 lightning spells, and places them perfectly atop your DE storage (which you've upgraded to level 6 because you want to reduce the amount of DE zappers can steal, right?), such that the spells inflict 420*4 or 1680 damage. A level 6 DE storage has 3200 HP, meaning that if it accumulates 1680 damage, the percentage of DE stolen from it is 1680/3200 or 52.5%. Supposing you have reached the maximum amount of DE available to be looted from attackers (2500 DE once you have 50,000 DE in storage, at TH9), the amount this theoretical zap attack will steal from you is 2500*0.525 or 1312 DE.
* 1 level 6 DE drill produces 100 DE per hour. With 2 DE drills, that's 200 per hour. After 12 hours, that's 200*12 or 2400 DE.
As for TH8s: okay, yes. This is the only point I agree with. Hoarding DE at TH8 is difficult for people who do not play for at least a few hours a day, but this isn't inherently problematic; you can get to BK5 with relative ease and the only other relevant use for DE at TH8 is getting hogs to level 4, which in terms of war attacks, isn't necessarily more effective than mass, level 3 dragons. Point being, it's hard to get DE at TH8, but there's also not such a need for it that this is a serious hindrance.
So you don't want to take steps to combat your DE getting zapped? How can you logically continue to contend that there's no solutions when you openly refuse to them?
So, I don't like to use empirical data when trying to prove something on a very large scale, but since you mention your own experience, I thought I'd do the same – here's my defense log, under very similar conditions (I am also a TH9 in crystal 3).
As you can see, only 3/33 attacks or about 10% of my defenses involved getting zapped, and in every case, the loss was negligible because of my maxed DE drills (this point was made previously). In fact, the single-largest instance of losing DE came from a TH10 attacker who used 5 spells, 2 golems, and about 30 wizards – not a single lightning spell in sight. And yet, even despite losing about 2,200 DE, I still came out ahead because my DE drills made back all of what I lost (and then some) due to my shield.
Once again, defeating baseless arguments does nothing to further your own points. You should really just get into the habit of ignoring stuff like this, since it's clogging up your already lengthy post.
It's interesting that you're essentially saying here what I said to you a few paragraphs ago – that "just saying stuff" isn't actually making an argument. Well, that's sort of what you're doing here, isn't it? You're not arguing back. The difference is that the burden of proof is on you, because you're the one trying to elicit change. You need to convince everyone else why "it being a part of the game" is a problem.
Last edited by sanjuro; October 29th, 2014 at 05:59 PM.
It might be a dumb statement, however it is true. if the economy is so bad why would you want to eliminate the one of the only viable attack strategies for townhall 7?
It isn't broken, but you avoided my concern about you want to eliminate the lightning spell
Ummmm what is the counter to DE zapping,lol ....
Btw how do you counter the jump spell and raged goblins?
Wait you expect them to be able to smash their way to the core of a townhall higher than them ... That is just silly
Last edited by Natesmiles; October 29th, 2014 at 06:01 PM.
Oh my gawd lol
How can you say it is not part of the game? I view it as much part of the game as farming, where you drop your trophies to raid weaker opponent to maximize your resource gain.
http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...e-is-a-problem
Very well put, thank you for posting sanjuro
Last edited by ImWatchingYouSleep; October 29th, 2014 at 06:02 PM.
To give them free shield ? Its worst idea which i ever heared ...Get revenge, three star their base!
U just let noob players to farm without risk, its NOT part of the game, same like overpowered hogs which was fixed earlier ...
I only found 1 good reason what good zapping brings to the game but so far the pros of nerfing zapping out weight the cons
coathanger is that you?
Jokes aside, very good post.
Last edited by SorrowCat; October 29th, 2014 at 11:46 PM.
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