Mildly Incoherent Ramblings about the state of the game, and ways to fix it.

[Humbob]

On a side note, as much discussion about business lies herein, alot of it very good. I have always been an entrepreneur, since I first saved a couple bucks waiting tables to start my first (very very failed) business. I remain one today, I always will. I'm very patiently awaiting the sale of one of the businesses because I am so impressed with the manager that I want to start something much bigger with him as the leader.

When I had my first big windfall in business I bought 5 businesses as investments, longstanding ones that had fallen on hard times that I hoped I could turn around. My idea was that would provide me with a longstanding income stream ASIDE FROM funds stuffed in a brokerage house somewhere. Like insurance for the day when the banks all go crazy again. I thought very long and very hard about what type of business to invest in, and I chose one. It is one that has existed for millenia, it will exist for millenia more, I do not run them in the hopes of maximizing short term profits, I run them with the goal of providing security for my family for a long long time. Can anybody guess what they are?

As far as SuperCell goes, when these companies start to go public, they will be the easiest short sale of a lifetime, the only question will be timing. They will probably list and trade for an unbelievable multiple, showing huge growth, etc. But with such an unsustainable business model that will eventually, like me, put off all players from the entire genre... They can't last.

[Coathanger]

How exactly did I contradict myself? I told you to give me examples of gameplay changes for the sake of gameplay rather than profits. My rebuttal is questioning the nature of your examples. I see your examples as positive improvements, but in my opinion they are just a reaction to a loss in gems sales in regards to those items. Hence this debate is pointless because this is my belief/opinion and I already know you disagree. Lets move on.

No what you asked for was.
"So lets see, is there a single change that has shown the integrity of supercell? Ie has there ever been a change that clearly was for the betterment of gameplay while possibly hurting sc's revenue stream?"

You prefaced that with.
"Go ahead coathanger, ask me some questions about gameplay that is totally just for the players benefit and has nothing to do with increasing profits. I know this is an impossible question [...]"

Then you came back with. BTW this was not one of my examples, but it was an excellent example of where they reduced profit for the player experience.
"My only rebuttal is questioning the reasons behind changes. Like the hero heal reduction time. Is that because people stopped leveling/gemming their heroes before it? I know many who started the hero grind again after that. I would argue that all similar positive changes are only due to increasing profits."

Really not sure of the point youre trying to make here. I said already i love coc and think its a great game. The only thing were talking about now is the impact of the business model on the game. Are you saying the game automatically doesnt have a sleazy business model because its popular...? Okay....

Reread it again..Their model does not give you updates based on calculations done in order to milk people of their money. They do not have a sleazy business model, there is no evidence, claims used to support this are based on car parts......ROFL Sorry I just got a good laugh there, nothing personal.

Furthermore the argument here is simply affirming the consequent. Not all free2play is sleazy.

This means absolutely nothing. Do you really think sc would admit to putting profits before gameplay? No company would admit to that... Theres such a thing as PR you know...

Argument from incredulity, I see you are fond of this one and talk about dismissive. SC would never need to admit to putting profits before game play, it does not happen they derive profits from creating and maintaining a great game and people happily put in money to support it. (BTW I have not since march(?) when I bought my builders)

Idgaf about that last part, I was just trying to let you know why it seems that nearly everyone on here has very strong negative reactions towards your posts.

People have strong reactions to being contradicted, something I do a lot and I usually do not sugarcoat it.

P.S. This is really taking a lot of my effort to argue with you as im typing all this on a phone...

That is dedication! Props and thank you for taking the time, although I really should get off my puter, so stop for both our sake!

[Jappchillin]

On a side note, as much discussion about business lies herein, alot of it very good. I have always been an entrepreneur, since I first saved a couple bucks waiting tables to start my first (very very failed) business. I remain one today, I always will. I'm very patiently awaiting the sale of one of the businesses because I am so impressed with the manager that I want to start something much bigger with him as the leader.

When I had my first big windfall in business I bought 5 businesses as investments, longstanding ones that had fallen on hard times that I hoped I could turn around. My idea was that would provide me with a longstanding income stream ASIDE FROM funds stuffed in a brokerage house somewhere. Like insurance for the day when the banks all go crazy again. I thought very long and very hard about what type of business to invest in, and I chose one. It is one that has existed for millenia, it will exist for millenia more, I do not run them in the hopes of maximizing short term profits, I run them with the goal of providing security for my family for a long long time. Can anybody guess what they are?

As far as SuperCell goes, when these companies start to go public, they will be the easiest short sale of a lifetime, the only question will be timing. They will probably list and trade for an unbelievable multiple, showing huge growth, etc. But with such an unsustainable business model that will eventually, like me, put off all players from the entire genre... They can't last.

Can I borrow your crystal ball for the next time the lotto jackpot hits the roof? You seem to think you're a master of business while trashing a small team of developers who trump any earnings you or I could ever dream of. They made a game people wanted to play and are keeping it going, their business model is legitimate and rather clean to say the least. You literally trade either time or cash there is no underlying theme of greedy corporates doing the evil pyramid fingers of contemplation. They simply gave people the option to buy an ingame currency to speed up their progress. They never put up any intentional road blocks to force people into buying them. There's no conspiracy of them trying to purposely frustrate players and trigger the credit card application process in your mind forcing you to buy gems. Happy people buy more gems than frustrated ones.

[STEVENX]

Mildly is putting it rather...mildly. You wrote a book, about an app, played by children. It also doesn't take a degree in psychology to understand how to make a good business and give people what they want. You should probably reasses your priorities. Loot is fine and time is what makes the whole point of the game. You progress at whatever rate you wish to progress at or can afford. Heroes are not some gem buying conspiracy to make you spend mommy and daddy's pay check it's just the way it is much like when you upgrade your spell factory. The prep day is fine you realize most of the time you get matched up with a clan overseas and how would a 2 hour window for that be fair. People have other priorities than playing this game all day. If you don't want to war join a farming clan if you want to war but can't, offer to leave so you're not handicapping the clan. Quests, well it's a lot easier to photoshop some pics on the screen and come up with ideas than actually making it happen within the game. Who knows what they have planned in the future. I skimmed through most of your post because well let's face it, ain't nobody got time fo dat.

Lol I actually quite liked his points and ideas and thought it was well written. We'll done OP.

[Humbob]

Can I borrow your crystal ball for the next time the lotto jackpot hits the roof? You seem to think you're a master of business while trashing a small team of developers who trump any earnings you or I could ever dream of. They made a game people wanted to play and are keeping it going, their business model is legitimate and rather clean to say the least. You literally trade either time or cash there is no underlying theme of greedy corporates doing the evil pyramid fingers of contemplation. They simply gave people the option to buy an ingame currency to speed up their progress. They never put up any intentional road blocks to force people into buying them. There's no conspiracy of them trying to purposely frustrate players and trigger the credit card application process in your mind forcing you to buy gems. Happy people buy more gems than frustrated ones.

They have done unbelievably well, as have I'm sure a whole host of copycat games. Unbelievably, billionaires will be made out of this. I stand by the pretty obvious assertions that their intention is to frustrate players, and the model cannot be sustained. Its a preposterously bad sales proposition that preys on the human psyche, as mentioned by others above. For the cost of a few lava walls (gemmed) you could get a PS4 a TV and everything if video games are what you really wanted.

They came up with a new concept, that probably shocked everybody involved at how well it works. It is very very carefully designed to constantly frustrate players and encourage them to spend "just a little". Which adds up to alot, which can't last over time.

Everything is designed to frustrate players. The hero heal time reduction, as mentioned above by another, was very clever way to get pepole to care about heroes again after the big hero nerf. How many times in these games will some hero or troop be overpowered, only to be nerfed just after people stop spending on it. Right now they are really trying to get the valk used. If they nudge it to OP'd, it will be nerfed... after everybody has maxed it. Drags are left so powerful for most clans because they cost so much.

Its brilliant, but its also something that I simply will never participate in again. I will never download one of these "grinding" games again. I honestly cannot wait for the day the last of my young family members quits, I'll be out the door right after them.

I appreciate your thoughts.

[Humbob]

Can I borrow your crystal ball for the next time the lotto jackpot hits the roof? You seem to think you're a master of business while trashing a small team of developers who trump any earnings you or I could ever dream of. They made a game people wanted to play and are keeping it going, their business model is legitimate and rather clean to say the least. You literally trade either time or cash there is no underlying theme of greedy corporates doing the evil pyramid fingers of contemplation. They simply gave people the option to buy an ingame currency to speed up their progress. They never put up any intentional road blocks to force people into buying them. There's no conspiracy of them trying to purposely frustrate players and trigger the credit card application process in your mind forcing you to buy gems. Happy people buy more gems than frustrated ones.

And, no master at all. Nobody who has spent their life starting or working on businesses could beleive they are a master, because they would have had so many opportunities to fail. Risk management is kind of the key.

In this case thought, there isn't any crystal ball needed, these guys have a shooting star beyond all belief, but just so obviously destined to fall in the end. And no, happy players don't buy more gems. Addicted players who are frustrated or impatient do.

cheers

[Coathanger]

Classic coathanger. Doesnt even have real rebuttals so just strawmans me to no end.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Not even worth my time to respond to your actual post. It should be clear to anyone with half a brain youre a shill.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

I am just going to assume your 12 year old brother is on your phone now. I will be happy to continue the discussion once the phone is in the hands of an adult.

[Bradleygrayson]

I approve this post. Fix it SC.

[Coathanger]

Nice ad hominem. Call me a child because I called you out on strawman arguments. What a joke. Is the only reason you arent banned because you work for supercell?

This is the last I will respond to you while you maintain this tone.

You did not call me out on a single argument you posted a link and did not cite one single argument of mine as falling into that category.

[Coathanger]

Nearly every argument in your last post was a strawman. That good enough for you? Reread my posts then read yours and youll see you clearly misrepresent my arguments in your rebuttal = strawmanning. Intentional or not, I do not care.

Glad to see a more civil tone, thank you for that.

If it is every single argument I encourage you to take the time to show how two of them are straw men.