Monkey Theory: Is the step between troops to big?

[AngrehBard]

I totally agree with OP.

My armies are always the same, old, trusty archer, goblin, WB, giant combo. It works and it doesn't take too much time, that's why I use it.

But I want more variety. More playing around. I want to try crazy strategies, like PEKKA and 180 goblins. But I can't since i won't profit at all.

I want to put them in my normal "farming" army.

i want to tell myself, "I'll add a PEKKA to my army this raid, I want to play it a bit more safe.

Great thread ActionMonkey.

[Syaoraen]

I think they need to rebalance the de troops, golem was a success on higher lvl play right away. The other 3 still sucks. Why make troops that no one ever gets to use? Or should I say why would we use them if the old troops are better? That is a let down, plus their upgrades are ridiculously long and expensive, no one will ever try or use them.

[GeorgeMan]

I like the variety of troop options in this game. I am happy with their respective cost and housing space requirements, because they reflect the effectiveness of each troop type (or attempt to, at least). Used skilfully, they will let you achieve whatever goal you may have - trophies or resources or both.

I am in a similar position to ActionMonkey, and also use the same 'regular' troop combo with great effect at looting and maintaining trophies in the 2000-2200 range. I'm happily netting around 3M gold, 3M elixir, and 12K DE per day (including the cost of being attacked & hitting 'next', plus the additional loot received from all max mines/collectors/drills & the new league bonus).

I enjoy attacking every 25-30mins, and have done so ever since I started playing in Jan. Using wiz/healer/balloon/dragon/pekka gets frustrating because my attacking cycle blows out to over an hour. Using gems to speed up training times becomes 'too easy' in some regard, because I am attacking 'too often' and I tend to lose a sense of satisfaction/achievement (or I don't learn how to effectively use a different combo, and resort back to my tried & tested army, which can become boring).

If I could always fill my 220-unit capacity in the same fixed amount of time, e.g. 30min - no matter what my troop combo, things would become much more balanced. I'd experiment with different troops more often. I'd experiment with different attacking styles more often. I'd even be tempted to spend more gems if I stumbled across a new combo/strategy that worked, and I wanted to exploit it more.

If troop training times became more proportional to their respective housing space, I think most of our issues would disappear, and this game would improve immensely.

Thoughts?

[Syaoraen]

I like the variety of troop options in this game. I am happy with their respective cost and housing space requirements, because they reflect the effectiveness of each troop type (or attempt to, at least). Used skilfully, they will let you achieve whatever goal you may have - trophies or resources or both.

I am in a similar position to ActionMonkey, and also use the same 'regular' troop combo with great effect at looting and maintaining trophies in the 2000-2200 range. I'm happily netting around 3M gold, 3M elixir, and 12K DE per day (including the cost of being attacked & hitting 'next', plus the additional loot received from all max mines/collectors/drills & the new league bonus).

I enjoy attacking every 25-30mins, and have done so ever since I started playing in Jan. Using wiz/healer/balloon/dragon/pekka gets frustrating because my attacking cycle blows out to over an hour. Using gems to speed up training times becomes 'too easy' in some regard, because I am attacking 'too often' and I tend to lose a sense of satisfaction/achievement (or I don't learn how to effectively use a different combo, and resort back to my tried & tested army, which can become boring).

If I could always fill my 220-unit capacity in the same fixed amount of time, e.g. 30min - no matter what my troop combo, things would become much more balanced. I'd experiment with different troops more often. I'd experiment with different attacking styles more often. I'd even be tempted to spend more gems if I stumbled across a new combo/strategy that worked, and I wanted to exploit it more.

If troop training times became more proportional to their respective housing space, I think most of our issues would disappear, and this game would improve immensely.

Thoughts?

Lower training time and camp cost to their appropriate numbers. 15 min 100 de for a 8 camp Valkyrie isn't something id use very often. Even for clearing cc she does a bad job because cc troops owns her pretty damn quickly.

[dahimi]

The troops are balanced poorly for the player but balanced perfectly for profit.

Consider that the vast majority of players are not as advanced in base development as you are. Most have months of base building ahead of them. Inexpensive tier 1 troops keep these people playing and upgrading their bases. While these people are playing, some will spend modest amounts of money on things like builders or occasional gem packs to rush say a level 6 archer upgrade. They will also tell their friends about the game and get them playing.

It's only when people start going for trophies exclusively that they run into problems. Even then they can get pretty high using farming troops.

Then you have the whales. These are the people who are determined to be on the leaderboard at all costs. They gem everything. Expensive DE troops, tier 3 troops, and hero regen times mean little to them in gem costs. Defenses are setup such that high end troops are a must for success. The expense and long build times ensures that Supercell makes a killing off these people.

If you have maxed out your base, Supercell wants to convert you into a whale. They can't substantially lower the costs on the most expensive troops because that would erode the advantage that the whales get from spending all that money. It would of course also lower the amounts they need to spend to maintain their spots. Furthermore if you're maxed out, you aren't going to be buying any builders or rushing any buildings; and you have likely already told your friends about the game in the several months you have been playing. All of that adds up to them having little incentive to keep you playing.

It is my hope that Supercell will consider adjusting the build times of balloons and wizards so that they are within reach of farmers. I wouldn't bet on them doing much to reduce the costs of tier 3 troops though.

[billwinkiesbear]

It is my hope that Supercell will consider adjusting the build times of balloons and wizards so that they are within reach of farmers. I wouldn't bet on them doing much to reduce the costs of tier 3 troops though.

I would love a reduction in build time for wizards, elix is never a concern for me and I would like to try farming with wizards.. They would be an awesome farming troops and also become the cc troops of choice.. I fear it is for these reasons that we will not see this desired reduction.

[Syaoraen]

Why they need to do is make progressing in this game closely tied with trophie level. Dropping trophie to advance in the game is some backward thinking. I much prefer if we could use higher tier troops at higher level while still able to improve out base at a reasonable rate. What's the point of farming th7 with tier 1 troops for months before anyone is will to even go for trophies they can't support with the current system.

You can't profit enough to keep going and the build time for high tier troops are just ridiculous.


SUPERCELL the step you take is backward thinking. People will not stop farming noobs if you just lower the overall loot% you need to make high tier troops more accessible and league bonus more worthwhile for people to actually want to compete and give challenge to gemmers. Farmers aren't trash that should be forgotten because they don't pay enough. they're still players, and potential customers.

[Junliang]

Agree with most posts here.

There is a fine line between Farming/cost efficient troop and Trophy hunting/power troops

1) Farming troops
Barb/Arch/Gob/Giant/minion
Exception: wb(more of a utility troop, as low trophy hunter still used then)

2) Trophy hunting troops
Drag/Pekka/Golem/wiz
Exception:vallyrie(top trophy hunters dont use them. Maybe lower trophy hunters)

3) ???
balloon/mr t/healer

main fix needed is revamp for tier 2 troops

[ActionMonkey]

The troops are balanced poorly for the player but balanced perfectly for profit.

Consider that the vast majority of players are not as advanced in base development as you are. Most have months of base building ahead of them. Inexpensive tier 1 troops keep these people playing and upgrading their bases. While these people are playing, some will spend modest amounts of money on things like builders or occasional gem packs to rush say a level 6 archer upgrade. They will also tell their friends about the game and get them playing.

It's only when people start going for trophies exclusively that they run into problems. Even then they can get pretty high using farming troops.

Then you have the whales. These are the people who are determined to be on the leaderboard at all costs. They gem everything. Expensive DE troops, tier 3 troops, and hero regen times mean little to them in gem costs. Defenses are setup such that high end troops are a must for success. The expense and long build times ensures that Supercell makes a killing off these people.

If you have maxed out your base, Supercell wants to convert you into a whale. They can't substantially lower the costs on the most expensive troops because that would erode the advantage that the whales get from spending all that money. It would of course also lower the amounts they need to spend to maintain their spots. Furthermore if you're maxed out, you aren't going to be buying any builders or rushing any buildings; and you have likely already told your friends about the game in the several months you have been playing. All of that adds up to them having little incentive to keep you playing.

It is my hope that Supercell will consider adjusting the build times of balloons and wizards so that they are within reach of farmers. I wouldn't bet on them doing much to reduce the costs of tier 3 troops though.

I am far from maxed in terms of overall investment though. First there's the walls, and then there's new buildings, and levels on buildings, that they constantly add. Excepting the upgrades I do have left right now that is. I will keep on farming for ages. And have no problem with that, progress is nice. And I will probably gem a build time here and here in the process. I would be surprised if SC actually *wants* to get rid of me, why would they?

No, it's much more clever to keep me as a customer. And SC is a fairly clever company.

Of course they would like to see me go all in. Become a whale, or maybe a dolphin at least... But that will never ever happen. Not in a million years. Not if CoC was the last computer game on earth. And I think most players at my level are like me. Gemming? Sure, once in a while, value equivalent of a MMPORG's monthly fee or so, but not more.

I know whales make up for a very big chunk of the profit for SC. Much more than one would think at first glance. But every penny counts, as my grandfather used to say. And players like me chip in more than a penny.

I don't think they will lower tier 3 either, as I said in my first post. And I totally understand the need for a high-end tier.

But tier 2, DE troops 1-3, and new troops can be used to create variety and options. I truly think it would be beneficial for the game, SC's profit and the players in the long run.

[Hangar18]

Terrific post, lots of great points made. Completely agree with it too, especially the training time for wizards and healers. Balloons? Meh - these could take 2 mins to train and I still wouldn't use them. As for the 'explosion' improvement in the last upgrade...
1) it doesn't do enough damage
2) they get popped before they can even do said damage

so like you, it's a standard low cost troop combo that I use as well.