Monkey Theory: Is the step between troops to big?

[ActionMonkey]

There's something that have been nagging me for a while now. But in order to let as many as possible in on my perspective I need to introduce myself. Skip that part if you don't care haha.

INTRODUCTION

I have a TH 9 that are fairly close to max in terms of buildings now. I have a few defenses left before they are max, but in terms of defensive power I am not going to see a drastic improvement on my replays, maybe excepting my level 2 crossbows going to 3 now. I almost never lose more than two out of 9 storages. And often not even that. I expect to see a few more 4-storage losses when I start the second crossbow upgrade though, but I want to get it done.

A couple of spells still need a level, and my DE troops need levelling, minions are level 5 though. Also need to level DE barracks to 4. But normal troops are maxed.

I have bought a few gems here and there. And I gem building or upgrade times now and then. Very rarely buy resources, don't even remember last time it happened.

ARGUMENTATION

I have been playing for quite a while now, my base have undergone drastic improvements over the months. The progress have been huge in terms of defensive power, and satisfaction when I watch my replays. I have gotten new, and more, toys at every level - but I still run with almost the exact same army-setup when I attack.

I use wb's, giants, barbs, archers and goblins. And heroes of course. And I have a second account on TH 7. Guess what I am building in my barracks on that base? He even have a hero to play with as well.

Now, don't get me wrong. I like my set-up. But I like it because it's the best set-up if you have my playstyle. I have tried lots of different compositions over the months. Used healer/giant a while with success. Played around with barbs/archers but couldn't stand the low power that combo have on more developed bases, even if it's nice when you attack noobs with gold walls and such.

But I have nothing to look forward to. There's not gonna be a different combo using wizards or whatever that are equally cost-, time- and power- effective. Not if you like burning bases to the ground.

THE THEORY

I think SC have made a mistake when it comes to balancing build-times, cost, and relative power of many troops. There's always going to be the high-end battles where golems, pekkas, dragons and level 30 heroes comes into play. And that level of troops are moreor less fine balance wise as far as I can see. A few players play around with them, but the vast majority of the players that use this kind of troops are rather heavy gemmers or even whales as far as I can see, and I understand that the revenues from these players are a big chunk of SC's income. And I have no problem with that. Honestly.

But there's no middle ground. That's the problem. It's either troop set-ups like mine, or troop set-ups that include the high-end troops I mentioned above.

Balloons: Not fantastic with 4 air defenses, air-mines, air-bombs, archer towers and the brand new wizard tower. They take way to much time to train, and I suspect that they maybe even should just take 3 or 4 spaces, but I'm not sure on that.

Wizards: Very nice DPS, but they also take way to much time to train. They also need a very solid meat-shield, like pekkas or golems for example, to be truly worth the elixir investment.

Healer: A what? Ah, it's dead.

Minions: Not really worth the investment in DE for a farming army. Unless you only use a few. I use them sometimes, but there's lots of things that need DE nowdays, and I need my DE for other stuff. And they are not *that* powerful with all the traps and defenses in a developed base.

Hog riders and Valkyries: Can't really say. But from the videos I have watched I don't have any hopes of ever using these for real.

So. What's left? Well, you have the exact same troops that I have been using since the dawn of time. And you play around with the compositions. You do something really crazy and outlandish and you build 14 giants in the next army!!! Or 80 goblins, what a laugh!!! Yay... Zzzzz...

I think that CoC would become more fun and therefore more successfull game if the balancing of the troops would be slightly different. Lower he costs of DE-troops 1-3 and the training time of Balloons, Healers and Wizards. And maybe nudge the cost of healers and wizards downwards. Healers also take way to much space.

I am not looking for a power-increase. I just want to see more options! If I chose between a healer or 20 archers their relative power should be close together. You want people to think like this: " Archers or wizards? Hmm, ok, I'll try a few wizzies this time, it's fun!".

I represent the other kind of paying customer. I will never ever gem troops. But I will chip in now and then. And I want to have fun!

[GDHeka]

Very good posting and my thoughts exactly. I have also been using almost same troop combo a very long time. Higher tier units just are way too expensive, take too much space and take too much time to train. Only difference to you is that I use one healer in my army and I like it.

[ActionMonkey]

Very good posting and my thoughts exactly. I have also been using almost same troop combo a very long time. Higher tier units just are way too expensive, take too much space and take too much time to train. Only difference to you is that I use one healer in my army and I like it.

Thanks. Yeah, it's pretty annoying to go through the exact same key-strokes in the barracks over, and over, and over again. Ain't it?

A question. Are you TH 8 by any chance? Or TH 7 maybe even? Asking because I used a healer now and then at TH 8 and that was kinda the only difference I have experienced in army set-up since I started playing. It doesn't work very well if you are a TH 9 attacking other TH 9's or developed TH 8's though. Sadly.

[Circa2012]

I would use higher troops if the cook time wasn't so long. The elixir cost is nothing to meas a consistently have over5 million. Just the time that ruins the big troops for me

[ActionMonkey]

I would use higher troops if the cook time wasn't so long. The elixir cost is nothing to meas a consistently have over5 million. Just the time that ruins the big troops for me

What TH level are you? The need for elixir is higher at TH 9 than TH 8, new barracks is 4 millions per upgrade and DE pumps are also fairly expensive.

[CheekyMonk3y]

I'm only in the middle stages of TH8, but I feel pretty much the same way. I'm also a player who will occasionally buy and spend gems to reduce upgrade times, but I don't gem my army and I don't gem resources. SC made it seem really exciting when we were getting all these new de troops, but the problem is that they didn't really give us any extra de to effectively use them. DE quantities have remained the same and yet there are now more and more needs for de. They gave a slight increase if you are Crystal II or higher, but they have far more customers below that level who would also like to use all the new stuff.

I agree completely on wizards, balloons, and healers as well. Balloons are never going to be a high tier attack troop, so why not make them an alternate option for farming to add variety and create a bigger emphasis on ADs for lower level players who often ignore upgrading them. I think if balloons got a slight speed increase, dropped to 3-4 troop spaces, and took 2-4 minutes to train, we would finally see people start to use them. Perhaps this is too powerful, I'm not sure, but the slight upgrade of the damage upon death has done nothing to make balloons a viable strategy.

Wizards and Healers would similarly be fun to use if they had a train time that was better in line with other troops.

[MadDog]

I also find I am using the same boring army composition since I started playing the game.
You hit the nail on the head - Wizards take too much time. Balloons as well, and they also take up too much space.
There definately is a large gap between the standard army composition of (maybe) barbs, archers, giants, wb's and perhaps a healer to a higher level army of dragons, wizards, pekkas and DE troops. The higher level armies cost too much, take too much time, and take too much space to be worthwile to use. So we are stuck using our boring army compositions for almost the entire length of the game.
I would definately support any method of closing this gap. Be it modifying existing troops, or introducing new troops at the mid-range level doesn't matter to me - just close that gap SuperCell!

[zachUVA]

I'm TH 9 as of tomorrow, but I can definately see your point. The raiding armies change very little over the course of the game. There are small shofts away from barbs and towards giants and wallbreakers, but the higher troops are impractical for farming. I am also going to combine this problem with the lack of ways to profit from raiding non-premie Th 9s. Farming troops won't get the job done well and the other troops are too expensive and time consuming.

The way I see it, there are two possible solutions to this:

1) One or more DE troops are added as a mid-tier type of troop. It would need to be something relatively quick to make, restricted to TH 9 only, and would have to be have some sort of advantage over one of the traditional farming troops.

2) Make it so that the higher troops that already exist more relevant. This is the most likely option, IMO, and will likely involve the leagues. We all know that farming is a means to an end, and that the end is resources. If strong TH 9s make the most loot from attacking other strong TH 9s, that would get very few complaints. I could see this paired with a reduction in training times of wizards and/or balloons.

[ActionMonkey]

I also find I am using the same boring army composition since I started playing the game.
You hit the nail on the head - Wizards take too much time. Balloons as well, and they also take up too much space.
There definately is a large gap between the standard army composition of (maybe) barbs, archers, giants, wb's and perhaps a healer to a higher level army of dragons, wizards, pekkas and DE troops. The higher level armies cost too much, take too much time, and take too much space to be worthwile to use. So we are stuck using our boring army compositions for almost the entire length of the game.
I would definately support any method of closing this gap. Be it modifying existing troops, or introducing new troops at the mid-range level doesn't matter to me - just close that gap SuperCell!

Indeed. New troops that actually close the gap is a viable option. Both balancing and new troops would be ideal.

[ActionMonkey]

I'm TH 9 as of tomorrow, but I can definately see your point. The raiding armies change very little over the course of the game. There are small shofts away from barbs and towards giants and wallbreakers, but the higher troops are impractical for farming. I am also going to combine this problem with the lack of ways to profit from raiding non-premie Th 9s. Farming troops won't get the job done well and the other troops are too expensive and time consuming.

The way I see it, there are two possible solutions to this:

1) One or more DE troops are added as a mid-tier type of troop. It would need to be something relatively quick to make, restricted to TH 9 only, and would have to be have some sort of advantage over one of the traditional farming troops.

2) Make it so that the higher troops that already exist more relevant. This is the most likely option, IMO, and will likely involve the leagues. We all know that farming is a means to an end, and that the end is resources. If strong TH 9s make the most loot from attacking other strong TH 9s, that would get very few complaints. I could see this paired with a reduction in training times of wizards and/or balloons.

Thanks Zach, and welcome to TH 9 tomorrow!

Many TH 9's are farmable with my army, but not the bases at levels starting slightly lower than my base and upwards. Not without spells anyway. If they are well designed it's far from certain you get all the resources, and with an army cost at 90k or so I'm not overly excited to walk away with 100/100. It's ok, because I like tough battles more often than not, but it's not true farming.

But most importantly there's no options. As I said, I am not looking for a power increase really. Well, maybe a small one haha, just a wee bit for a tad more resources would be fun, but the main part is that I want to be able to play around with the game. Go 15 balloons, archers, barbs etc. Or something. Or Balloons/minions with a lower build time and DE cost. Options.

I think there's room for both new troops and balancing build times/costs/troop spaces. There should be.

and I think it would be a nice way to keep people like me playing. And paying.