The NEW one and only loot is good or bad thread

[Jorgy4459]

Yes exactly. The difference in loot is huge depending on what time you play.

Um. I sort of disagree. While I would assume this to be true my experiences say otherwise. Good for you though if you've nailed down a way to get loot.


I think what people are doing now is finding their own way to scrape by. I have dropped ups and I use as many cheap army compositions as I can to raid lower TH's. I one archer can get me 8000 of gold or elixir I'll take it. But it's not really fun fun. I'm just limping along until.....well, until something.

Some people are riding shields. Some have quit. Some are very lucky and find the inactives that seem to get pushed to the back. I use to see quite a bit inactives. Months ago. Last night was the first juicy one I've seen since the Lix for walks update. 400/400 2000

[iceageg]

Is there some reasonable explanation as to why you care? Honestly this thread has become argument for the sake of argument.

Which is why after 25 pages of trying to contribute I am done with this thread. Do those of you who participated, I appreciate the dialog and I wish you the best. Hopefully SC has taken the time to wade through the sewage to find a few ideas worth implementing. I also trust that SC's accounting department is smart enough to understand the basic economic principles that I was trying to explain already. If not we and they are both doomed.

Loot may be being spent at a higher rate than it is generated in your trophy range, it is also impossible to definitely say that especially for all trophy ranges. Solution get out of that trophy range! I think, assuming loot is being spent faster than it is being generated across the entire game is the wrong way to look at things, being so if the range your are in appears to evidence that to you it then find another fishing spot.

Ugh . . . it is narrow sighted blindness like this that spawns all of the bad ideas, then lambastes SC for not implementing them. I know it is a lot of reading but go back to page 640 and it is explained. I will try one more time with short words, then this thread is dead to me.

NOBODY makes loot by raiding it from another player. That simply shifts existing loot around between players who spend it. Raiding takes resources out of the economy. The important factor is how those resources are regenerated so you can attack again. Resources are MADE 3 ways. 1) Manufacture = collectors which are currently capped at TH7 production rates, 2) Tourists = dead/inactive accounts that can be raided but never raid back or spend anything which have been removed from the economy, 3) Out of thin air = league bonuses, war loot, tombstones, gems, etc. which in their current form are not adequate to support the TH7 based economy alone. If not enough resources are MADE the result is less and less to raid as people spend more and more growing. Trophies have nothing to do with the foundation of the economy. They control who you can attack that time in your microcosm of the economy, not how much loot is available to be raided. It is the difference between a street corner hustler and a mob boss.

Again, any ideas that are based on the, "let us take more during raids" concept will make the problem worse faster. Only ideas that increase the production of NEW resources into the economy will work. Once more resources are available you will be able to raid for it again. It works like this. . .

I have $10 and have a $2 per day allowance. If you steal my $2 of lunch money every day we can continue forever. As you grow into a bigger kid and you need more food you decide to steal $4 from me. It makes you more $$$!!! By the fifth day however I only have the new $2 of allowance I was given that day. You complain because you want $4 and demand that you should be able to take more from me because you need more to survive. The next day I get $2 and you complain again that you can only take $2 from me. This will go on forever until I can MAKE more money.

As players have progressed into TH9-10 in higher numbers spending more and more the TH7 loot manufacture standard has not grown to support it. There is the same volume of loot being manufactured as there was 12 months ago, fewer tourist dollars coming in, and with wars and nexting drawing more resources out of the system than league bonuses provide (below master anyway) there are little to no resources coming out of thin air. Since TH7 collectors are providing the only reliable positive resource flow raiding more often and/or for a greater % each attack will make the problem worse, faster. Some combination of more manufacture, more tourist or more out-of-thin-air resources is the ONLY solution. Anything else is Enron math. SC has been given many ideas here and no doubt has some of their own. There is more than enough opportunity to introduce both an revised baseline and flexible options. The only question is will the do it in time to and adequately enough to save their game. Odds are yes but they have lost me for a couple of months at least. Broken game needs fixed.

Good luck to those of you who stick around in here.

[Perseverance]

Which is why after 25 pages of trying to contribute I am done with this thread. Do those of you who participated, I appreciate the dialog and I wish you the best. Hopefully SC has taken the time to wade through the sewage to find a few ideas worth implementing. I also trust that SC's accounting department is smart enough to understand the basic economic principles that I was trying to explain already. If not we and they are both doomed.




Ugh . . . it is narrow sighted blindness like this that spawns all of the bad ideas, then lambastes SC for not implementing them. I know it is a lot of reading but go back to page 640 and it is explained. I will try one more time with short words, then this thread is dead to me.

NOBODY makes loot by raiding it from another player. That simply shifts existing loot around between players who spend it. Raiding takes resources out of the economy. The important factor is how those resources are regenerated so you can attack again. Resources are MADE 3 ways. 1) Manufacture = collectors which are currently capped at TH7 production rates, 2) Tourists = dead/inactive accounts that can be raided but never raid back or spend anything which have been removed from the economy, 3) Out of thin air = league bonuses, war loot, tombstones, gems, etc. which in their current form are not adequate to support the TH7 based economy alone. If not enough resources are MADE the result is less and less to raid as people spend more and more growing. Trophies have nothing to do with the foundation of the economy. They control who you can attack that time in your microcosm of the economy, not how much loot is available to be raided. It is the difference between a street corner hustler and a mob boss.

Again, any ideas that are based on the, "let us take more during raids" concept will make the problem worse faster. Only ideas that increase the production of NEW resources into the economy will work. Once more resources are available you will be able to raid for it again. It works like this. . .

I have $10 and have a $2 per day allowance. If you steal my $2 of lunch money every day we can continue forever. As you grow into a bigger kid and you need more food you decide to steal $4 from me. It makes you more $$$!!! By the fifth day however I only have the new $2 of allowance I was given that day. You complain because you want $4 and demand that you should be able to take more from me because you need more to survive. The next day I get $2 and you complain again that you can only take $2 from me. This will go on forever until I can MAKE more money.

As players have progressed into TH9-10 in higher numbers spending more and more the TH7 loot manufacture standard has not grown to support it. There is the same volume of loot being manufactured as there was 12 months ago, fewer tourist dollars coming in, and with wars and nexting drawing more resources out of the system than league bonuses provide (below master anyway) there are little to no resources coming out of thin air. Since TH7 collectors are providing the only reliable positive resource flow raiding more often and/or for a greater % each attack will make the problem worse, faster. Some combination of more manufacture, more tourist or more out-of-thin-air resources is the ONLY solution. Anything else is Enron math. SC has been given many ideas here and no doubt has some of their own. There is more than enough opportunity to introduce both an revised baseline and flexible options. The only question is will the do it in time to and adequately enough to save their game. Odds are yes but they have lost me for a couple of months at least. Broken game needs fixed.

Good luck to those of you who stick around in here.

THIS ^^^ is perfect. Well stated.

[Beancounter]

In all honesty, loot at th9 is 4x the loot at th10... So, divide what you are getting by 4 then triple the gold needed to upgrade anything and you come close to seeing what th10s are facing every day.

This is the only game I have ever played where the loot you get decreases at the highest level of play. It is completely backwards.

Yes! It should be hard to max your base... The hard part is the TIME investment, not the availability and likelihood of finding loot! At th9 I made my billion gg incredibly easily... 1-2 million gold per hour without boosting at will, 3 million gold plus boosting. I was also able to make any troop composition and raid storages and collectors at will. I boosted most farming sessions because it was fun! I found high loot bases regularly, I broke my shield ten times a day not caring if I was attacked as I made it up easily...

Situation currently th10... Ride shields as long as I can because I dont find a lot of loot anymore and nexting is not fun. I time my playing sessions so I can break shield myself and put several raids in to make slow progress. I dont rearm my traps 226k gold is insane. I dont sit and raid for 30 minutes for the privilege of active traps. I leave my TH outside and it was sniped 42 times in a row over the last couple weeks despite offering big loot almost everytime.

Saturday i have started pushing trophies with the clan. I bring the Townhall inside.. You know what happens? My full storages get raided over and over, I have lost nearly 2 million of each resource and 20000 de in 3 days. If i had armed my traps i would have spent over another million gold to cover that loss. I have 5 defensive wins this season already and I break my shield only twice a day. I know i am trading some loot for trophies with my base setup.

What does this mean? Loot is being protected by cheap shields. Period. People with full storages keep their TH outside essentially removing their massive loot stockpiles from the queue. If the queue was full of bases like mine, I would build massive armies and break my shield constantly to get at it.

You can do all the fixes you want, until loot is added to the TH, high level bases understand that an outside TH is almost a guaranteed snipe.

1. Add some loot to the TH. Make it equal to a gold/elixir storage
2. Do something with nexting cost so it doesn't disappear into nothing
3. Lower trap re arming costs, current loot does not warrant 200k plus rearming costs, it's really crazy high
4. Make defense wins mean something other then the privilege of re arming overpriced traps and useless trophies... If manipulation is the concern then add a % to it so ppl cant drop 1 troop and give bonus
5. Increase collector output 25% or more
6. League bonus multiplier... 2* worth more then 1* etc... Reward bigger accomplishments
7. Further discourage bots, any activity by them is too much
8. Elixir for walls needs addressed.. Either make it so only elixir above X amount can be used for walls leaving some elixir for theft, or make only lvl 10+ walls for elixir, or some other elixir solution

Do those things and th10s will immediately start seeing full storages in their queues again and people with near maxed defenses like me will break shields again and probably put our townhalls inside.

Well said! I have always wanted to get rid of the cheap TH farm shield. You either get lucky finding an inactive base or you catch some farmer before his TH gets sniped. Boring.

BTW, get out of crystal and low masters with th inside. Once you get into Masters2 you get less of those raids that steals your resources and only does 20-30% dmg.

[ryantp15]

Gold 1 and crystal III is where it's at. At least for me.

[Trancetravis]

I log in three times a day, empty my collectors, donate some troops, next for ten minutes or so and then dump my golem army on some unworthy base out of bored frustration, then log out. I have definitely noticed that this game is no longer fun, raiding is dead, I have barched my last barch, and I no longer care enough to write any type of contributory rhetoric here on the forums.

You win ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, we are beaten into submission... I hope the unwitting noobs keep filling your coffers because the ones who have been with you the longest are leaving...


BlackLud
co-leader,
mighty mashers
lvl 129. TH0
february 2013 start

[Jorgy4459]

Which is why after 25 pages of trying to contribute I am done with this thread. Do those of you who participated, I appreciate the dialog and I wish you the best. Hopefully SC has taken the time to wade through the sewage to find a few ideas worth implementing. I also trust that SC's accounting department is smart enough to understand the basic economic principles that I was trying to explain already. If not we and they are both doomed.




Ugh . . . it is narrow sighted blindness like this that spawns all of the bad ideas, then lambastes SC for not implementing them. I know it is a lot of reading but go back to page 640 and it is explained. I will try one more time with short words, then this thread is dead to me.

NOBODY makes loot by raiding it from another player. That simply shifts existing loot around between players who spend it. Raiding takes resources out of the economy. The important factor is how those resources are regenerated so you can attack again. Resources are MADE 3 ways. 1) Manufacture = collectors which are currently capped at TH7 production rates, 2) Tourists = dead/inactive accounts that can be raided but never raid back or spend anything which have been removed from the economy, 3) Out of thin air = league bonuses, war loot, tombstones, gems, etc. which in their current form are not adequate to support the TH7 based economy alone. If not enough resources are MADE the result is less and less to raid as people spend more and more growing. Trophies have nothing to do with the foundation of the economy. They control who you can attack that time in your microcosm of the economy, not how much loot is available to be raided. It is the difference between a street corner hustler and a mob boss.

Again, any ideas that are based on the, "let us take more during raids" concept will make the problem worse faster. Only ideas that increase the production of NEW resources into the economy will work. Once more resources are available you will be able to raid for it again. It works like this. . .

I have $10 and have a $2 per day allowance. If you steal my $2 of lunch money every day we can continue forever. As you grow into a bigger kid and you need more food you decide to steal $4 from me. It makes you more $$$!!! By the fifth day however I only have the new $2 of allowance I was given that day. You complain because you want $4 and demand that you should be able to take more from me because you need more to survive. The next day I get $2 and you complain again that you can only take $2 from me. This will go on forever until I can MAKE more money.

As players have progressed into TH9-10 in higher numbers spending more and more the TH7 loot manufacture standard has not grown to support it. There is the same volume of loot being manufactured as there was 12 months ago, fewer tourist dollars coming in, and with wars and nexting drawing more resources out of the system than league bonuses provide (below master anyway) there are little to no resources coming out of thin air. Since TH7 collectors are providing the only reliable positive resource flow raiding more often and/or for a greater % each attack will make the problem worse, faster. Some combination of more manufacture, more tourist or more out-of-thin-air resources is the ONLY solution. Anything else is Enron math. SC has been given many ideas here and no doubt has some of their own. There is more than enough opportunity to introduce both an revised baseline and flexible options. The only question is will the do it in time to and adequately enough to save their game. Odds are yes but they have lost me for a couple of months at least. Broken game needs fixed.

Good luck to those of you who stick around in here.

Well, you say this, but before SC's loot "adjustments" things were fine.


That's what no one wants to get because people just want to argue.

SC created this problem with the December loot update, which "fixed" a non existent problem, and the elixer for walls update.

Undo those updates and everything is fine again.

So people arguing about solutions is what SC wants. It keeps attention off the fact that they created this problem through updates.

Seriously, before the dec update raids were great. But SC wanted more money which you can't blame them for. Besides, it was annoying but you could still make progress. Now that the elixir is gone the game is in trouble.

If you read my other post you'll know why. They will put just a tad of elixir back into the economy so that people will grumble, but still buy gems.

[badfish1979]

Funny, I thought you enjoyed arguing things, for the sake of debate.

Except for when he's held to the same standards he holds other people

[Goobers]

Situation currently th10... Ride shields as long as I can because I dont find a lot of loot anymore and nexting is not fun. I time my playing sessions so I can break shield myself and put several raids in to make slow progress. I dont rearm my traps 226k gold is insane. I dont sit and raid for 30 minutes for the privilege of active traps. I leave my TH outside and it was sniped 42 times in a row over the last couple weeks despite offering big loot almost everytime.

Saturday i have started pushing trophies with the clan. I bring the Townhall inside.. You know what happens? My full storages get raided over and over, I have lost nearly 2 million of each resource and 20000 de in 3 days. If i had armed my traps i would have spent over another million gold to cover that loss. I have 5 defensive wins this season already and I break my shield only twice a day. I know i am trading some loot for trophies with my base setup.

What does this mean? Loot is being protected by cheap shields. Period. People with full storages keep their TH outside essentially removing their massive loot stockpiles from the queue. If the queue was full of bases like mine, I would build massive armies and break my shield constantly to get at it.

You can do all the fixes you want, until loot is added to the TH, high level bases understand that an outside TH is almost a guaranteed snipe.

1. Add some loot to the TH. Make it equal to a gold/elixir storage
2. Do something with nexting cost so it doesn't disappear into nothing
3. Lower trap re arming costs, current loot does not warrant 200k plus rearming costs, it's really crazy high
4. Make defense wins mean something other then the privilege of re arming overpriced traps and useless trophies... If manipulation is the concern then add a % to it so ppl cant drop 1 troop and give bonus
5. Increase collector output 25% or more
6. League bonus multiplier... 2* worth more then 1* etc... Reward bigger accomplishments
7. Further discourage bots, any activity by them is too much
8. Elixir for walls needs addressed.. Either make it so only elixir above X amount can be used for walls leaving some elixir for theft, or make only lvl 10+ walls for elixir, or some other elixir solution

Do those things and th10s will immediately start seeing full storages in their queues again and people with near maxed defenses like me will break shields again and probably put our townhalls inside.

Love every single of of these proposals, as in I don't think a single one has a flaw that could be exploited or break the game economy (is the economy NOT already broken as it is now???), and even if they left off #5 with increased collectors I think it would help. Of course, loosening the neckgrip on inactive bases would help as well.

[GCB]

I'm not complaining about people complaining. I'm not sure where you're getting that from.
I'm stating that getting yourself all worked up to the point where you feel the need to complain about something as pointless as a perceived drop in loot in an app game is absolutely ridiculous.
But feel free to keep doing so, I'm sure you're getting somewhere. This is very important and all.

Is the irony lost on you that you are telling someone they are repeatedly taking part in a petty discussion when you have made as many posts yourself?

Complaining is a productive and neccessary aspect of our lives. it can also be more politely labelled as constructive criticism or feedback. There is a difference between whining and complaining with the former being carried out by children and the short-sighted.

What i don't really understand is that supercell has acknowledged there is a widespread unhappiness with the levels of loot and going off Anoushka's response, the absence of ruling out a response means they are looking into doing something, but what can possibly take this long?

Kudos to iceageg . Fair play fella. I like all the posts you have made, well reasoned and thought out, logical and not emotionally driven to bias. Maybe if we put this bloke in a conference with the developers we can get a solution.

My own little input to the things you have said is that I'd like to see the interaction of inactives in the economy set to as little as possible in the long term. If they are to be used short term or to jump start slumps, then ok, but I would much rather see a successful economy that is purely based on active players.

It is down to the SC developers to come up with the best solutions, we are here to offer ideas, tweaks or starting points but we don't get paid to fix things. Personally I feel the argument based around collector levels made the most sense. The week we had 1 gem collector boosts for a week, it was the most fun I had had in clash for as long as I can remember. I can appreciate that level of economy stimulus would be too much long term, but I think it was inidicitave that here is where the solution could lie.