The NEW one and only loot is good or bad thread

[badfish1979]

As Shonie brought up, the bottleneck for TH8 and below is the builder times. A TH8 with max collectors can produce enough resources solely from their collectors in 4.2 months to max their base, but it takes 4.9 months of build time to max TH8 with 5 builders.

However, all this changes at TH9 and TH10. In fact, it would take your collectors 7 years to produce enough resources to max TH9, but only 6 months of build time with 5 builders.

So you have to rely on raids for 99.99999% of your resources (unless you want to wait 7 years to finish TH9). But where do the resources from these raids originate? From someone else's collectors.

But if every active raider is spending the resources they raid much faster than their collectors can produce (including both elixir and gold on walls), what is the solution to creating a healthy economy?

Allow more bases that aren't eating up resources and only producing them to be raided (i.e. inactive bases, single-player goblin bases, etc.). This does not mean for everyone to rely solely on these bases, but the more of these injecting new resources into the economy, the more going around for everyone.

[Arrow1993]

Allow more bases that aren't eating up resources and only producing them to be raided (i.e. inactive bases, single-player goblin bases, etc.). This does not mean for everyone to rely solely on these bases, but the more of these injecting new resources into the economy, the more going around for everyone.

Inactive bases get around twice per day, as they usually get shielded. Goblin bases are a short spike in available resources (usually done to quickly do an upgrade as you lack that last 100,000).

It needs to be a change for the long run, not short run changes. You need to change the structure of rewards for defenses won. Keep the game fun, make people do something. Don't allow them to faceroll collector bases and goblin bases, reward them for putting time and gold in their base and their design to won defenses!

King Midas
Insurgence Family

[Smalls]

8 pekka's, 2 drags would be 484,000 elixir (most expensive combination). 5 freeze spells (most expensive spells) are 175,000 elixir. That would be 659,000 elixir. Times 2... Not quite 2 million, on top this is a combo that is NEVER used. Don't exaggerate the war cost. War is completely optional, hence that shouldn't be brought in the equation. (You also gain 40% or 100% back, so you'd be talking about 1 million per war.)

The loot system is fine, the loot injection is horrible.

King Midas
Insurgence Family

You didn't add in donations. If you donate dragons, witches, golem, pekkas, hounds, or wizards to offensive and defensive CCs that adds up also (I know some of that is DE but it's still the same concept). Even with the increased % now DE and Elixir in CW is not a winning proposition (although the gold is nice).

And I'm not sure why you bring "War is completely optional" into the conversation. Why would you want to have something in the game that takes away from your progress? Pillaging should be profitable whether it's war or simple farming.

[Arrow1993]

You didn't add in donations. If you donate dragons, witches, golem, pekkas, hounds, or wizards to offensive and defensive CCs that adds up also (I know some of that is DE but it's still the same concept). Even with the increased % now DE and Elixir in CW is not a winning proposition (although the gold is nice).

And I'm not sure why you bring "War is completely optional" into the conversation. Why would you want to have something in the game that takes away from your progress? Pillaging should be profitable whether it's war or simple farming.

Add another 58,800 elixir, still not 2,000,000 elixir if you ask me. Nevertheless, these are not your own elixir so I was right to not calculate it in.

War lets you progress? Except from achievements, wars are done for the clan. If you do wars for loot, you always lose more than you put in. Pillaging is not always profitably by the way

King Midas
Insurgence Family

[LordAmbreon]

As Shonie brought up, the bottleneck for TH8 and below is the builder times. A TH8 with max collectors can produce enough resources solely from their collectors in 4.2 months to max their base, but it takes 4.9 months of build time to max TH8 with 5 builders.

However, all this changes at TH9 and TH10. In fact, it would take your collectors 7 years to produce enough resources to max TH9, but only 6 months of build time with 5 builders.

So you have to rely on raids for 99.99999% of your resources (unless you want to wait 7 years to finish TH9). But where do the resources from these raids originate? From someone else's collectors.

But if every active raider is spending the resources they raid much faster than their collectors can produce (including both elixir and gold on walls), what is the solution to creating a healthy economy?

Allow more bases that aren't eating up resources and only producing them to be raided (i.e. inactive bases, single-player goblin bases, etc.). This does not mean for everyone to rely solely on these bases, but the more of these injecting new resources into the economy, the more going around for everyone.

+1 I agree
Besides collectors, gems are the only thing that puts loot into the economy, and those resources are spent instantly. A collector buff/insertion of dead bases is called for.

[Smalls]

Add another 58,800 elixir, still not 2,000,000 elixir if you ask me. Nevertheless, these are not your own elixir so I was right to not calculate it in.

War lets you progress? Except from achievements, wars are done for the clan. If you do wars for loot, you always lose more than you put in. Pillaging is not always profitably by the way

King Midas
Insurgence Family

Where are you getting 58,800 from? And how is it that when I donate troops it's not my own elixir? Your not making any sense.

If I donate 1 dragon, thats 42,000 elixir (even more if I donate a pekka). It probably isn't 2 million, but it's definitely over 1.5 million per war if your clan uses dragons.

And war is profitable for gold. Tell me how you are going to find 500k+ in a normal raid? Yes, you need to build a big army but don't you sleep or do anything else during the day that would keep you away from clash for the couple of hours it takes to build a big fat army?

What that means is before the lix for walls debacle, it was worth it to war for the gold you won, in exchange for the ellixir and DE loss (right now DE is by far the easiest resource to get at th10). But now that elixir is so scarce, it might not even be worth it to war.

In other words, clan wars is contributing to the crappy CoC economy.

And that's just pretty sad that people will decide to miss out on the best part of the game because elixir is so scarce.

[Rotten]

8 pekka's, 2 drags would be 484,000 elixir (most expensive combination). 5 freeze spells (most expensive spells) are 175,000 elixir. That would be 659,000 elixir. Times 2... Not quite 2 million, on top this is a combo that is NEVER used. Don't exaggerate the war cost. War is completely optional, hence that shouldn't be brought in the equation. (You also gain 40% or 100% back, so you'd be talking about 1 million per war.)

The loot system is fine, the loot injection is horrible.

King Midas
Insurgence Family

oh, you don't donate at all to your clan mates CC's?

Crawl back into your hole. You clearly have no idea how the game is played. I can EASILY get close to 2 mill lix in a war. Or if I went the other way, using DE, I can easily surpass 20k DE used in one war.

But it the point is, with the current loot system, we cannot play the game, AND enjoy all its best features, because the game is setup to hold us back too much.

Loot system is broken. Needs repair.

[wannabgod]

Clash of clans is the game which I like most. But you have just destroyed it .The walls of elexar is worst update in the games history of coc. I am getting frustrated by nexting for 20 to 30 min and loot i found is well defended but barching now then what can i do. I collect the elexar for upgrade then it looted by other players and it take hours to collect that amount. But this was not same before the upgrade called wall on elexar. Be for upgrade i used to place my elexar storage less defended but now it is well defended and gold storage outside. If you are finding solution for this problem whether it is long term or short term simply revert the wall on elexar feature until new best update is launched. And if not then simply tell me I will quit without any argument and condition. Because there is no fun in barching and collector raid. Hope you reading it . Currently maximizing my collector and mines and if nothing changed then I would simply place all my collector one side with town hall and quit this fantastic game i ever loved. Do something for someone. Good bye and take care.

Forgot to add ♥♥♥♥ off and no gems for you,fricking ♥♥♥♥ers

[badfish1979]

Inactive bases get around twice per day, as they usually get shielded.

If inactive bases wouldn't add lots of resources to the economy because they get shielded twice per day, then why are they so heavily deprioritized?

Goblin bases are a short spike in available resources (usually done to quickly do an upgrade as you lack that last 100,000).

Which is why regenerating goblin bases after finite periods of time would keep a steady flow of new resources being generated.

It needs to be a change for the long run, not short run changes. You need to change the structure of rewards for defenses won. Keep the game fun, make people do something. Don't allow them to faceroll collector bases and goblin bases, reward them for putting time and gold in their base and their design to won defenses!

King Midas
Insurgence Family

They have already said that defense bonuses are somehow exploitable and won't be added. I'm not sure how they are exploitable, but apparently SC thinks they are.

[Goobers]

If by "the old loot system" you mean the old quantity of inactive bases you could collector raid then you are correct. If you mean the old system of calculating how much you could take from any base you are wrong. Nobody has it to take because there is no effective source of NEW resources in the game. Inactive bases are the CoC equivalent of tourist dollars. They create resources and never spend any out of the economy. When SC took those away the only source left was the collectors of active players which is kept in their storages. So we built different armies and started raiding their storages then spending the winnings. The problem is once it is spent, it is gone. Now we have less for everybody to steal than before. Fast forward a few months and here we are. Even if they change the calculation to give you 100% of the resources your target has you will only be able to attack them once. Then that loot is gone forever when you spend it. Now who do you raid? The solution is not to allow players to take a larger percentage of the small numbers available, it is to make MORE available. Anything that does not involve adding inactive bases (tourists) back into the game or some method of generating loot "out of thin air" is only going to make the problem worse. This is economics at it's most basic.

Ok, make more available, I understand, but how? Finding a lot of inactives is great, but it makes little sense if you think of it, really. I mean what, you can only progress in the game by relying on people who quit? I appreciate the occasional inactive, but if they're not going to come in consistently, then Supercell has a lot of loot to make up. I can honestly estimate that about 3/4 of my gold grab is from inactive bases. Take those away, and you've got an issue. They have to make up all that loot, somehow without completely crushing the economy.

With the status quo on how loot is currently acquired, iceagag is 100% correct.

Anyone from Supercell saying that they don't remove inactive bases, or that they haven't as of recently been aggressively reducing the amount of time until these bases fall into the "removed" list, are flat out lying. We have been experiencing this change over months. Most of the people playing this game may be 10 year olds, but we're not all complete idiots. In fact, tailoring a game that encourages large "sample-sized" farming sessions actually perfectly allows us to notice this downward trend of inactives over time.

It's either that, or 3rd party software and bots are robbing the difference in available inactive bases at an insane rate. But SC claims that bots are having a negligible effect on the economy, therefore the blame gets shifted back to them based on the first point.

This is the core of the problem. CoC is based on a TH7-8 sustainable resource production. This works fine for a while but as more and more people get into TH9-10 spending habits it becomes unsustainable. NO AMOUNT OF TAKING THE EXISTING LOOT FROM OTHER PLAYERS WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM! Rewards "from thin air" from successful defense, tourist dollars from inactive bases, increased league bonus across the board, lvl12 collectors, significant net gain from winning wars, etc. are the only way to fix it.

I liked these ideas, mainly b/c you included both passive and active forms of adding loot to the economy that doesn't just evenly distribute more loot evenly to everyone, rather than only saying "more higher-leveled collectors and freebie injections to everyone!, etc." I would absolutely welcome a change to this game, where they phase out inactive collector farming as they're doing now. But they're doing this without implementing a radical overhaul to how loot can be earned that replaces this very large source of income for all players. They can't implement their vision for having a more active overall playerbase when the only change they implement is removing the source of the old system. The outcome of that will be a totally crippled economy, and we're seeing it happen here.