i think its better if we change the subject on the abuse of the button to brainstorming idea on how this should work. example: beside a opt-out, you would use a enlistment list, or how the button should function, be aware that supercell dont want any old idea but something fresh and theme to clash of clan.
Last edited by FateValkyrie; September 12th, 2014 at 03:59 PM.
I am in whole hearted agreement that an opt out option is needed. I don't think that the leaders should have say in who is in or out. It is a game after all. I do think that life happens. My clan just lost a long time member; he was one of the strongest members in the clan, donated the best troops, and, when able to fight in war, got us 6 stars every time. He wasn't able to participate in the last few wars because of personal issues and people were getting annoyed at him for not playing. Two of those 3 wars, we lost by 1-2 stars and would have won if he played. He felt bad, so he left. If he had been able to hit a button saying he was out for those wars, we would still have that valued member in our clan.
With that being said, I think that it should be a toggle switch on the war page where all the stats are from the previous war. It should say "opt out for next war" if you are opted in and "opt in for next war" if you are opted out. It should be to the left of the "view map" button. In the clan list there would then be a red "X" where the shield is for eligible clan war participants so that all can see who is opted out. I think that it should automatically switch you back to "opt in for next war" after the war is complete so that it has to be reset each time. I think that each clan would then have the discretion to say "bob has opted out of these last 4 wars, are his donations down? Is he still active? Should he be allowed to stay in the clan?"
I see how supercell could be worried that this would be taken advantage of, but our clan goes to war whenever we feel like it. We usually give a days notice, but we can't expect people to rearrange their real life to fit into a game. It isn't practical. We also expect every clan member to use at least 1 battle each war, if not, they get demoted and next time kicked. An opt out would keep us from having to do that.
Last edited by Meganb005; September 12th, 2014 at 04:24 PM.
Lets get started then . . .Originally Posted by FateValkyrie
1) It should be able to be set by the player or the leader. If you don't trust or like your leader you should have found a different clan already.
2) There should be only 1 opt out allowed for every 10 members in the clan. This allows people who are sick/deployed or otherwise genuinely unable to participate to be accommodated but still maintains the concept of a "clan". It also prevents a 50 person clan from cherry picking 15 people to pit up against a 15 person clan and maintains at least a close approximation of actual potential strength.
3) Those opted out should not be able to donate troops to be used in war attacks. Not participating in the defense, don't get to help the offense.
Madmojo LVL 112/TH9 - Clan Leader - THE CHOSEN FEW
sounds plausible, now you need to theme it to clash of clan. i added a new my idea on the front page in blue text, check that out.
#2 doesn't work for our clan and the opt-out idea goes against what I got from SuperCell post that they want the entire clan participating (no option given to leaders to exclude someone from content).
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Welp, there's only one solution to the problem.
Take the timer offer battle day. A war should not end until EVERY single clan member gets in there war attacks. Then you can go on vacations, go camping and be able to still participate in war, because that is the thinking right? The 24 hour timer for battle does not encourage entire clan participation with real life concerns, so please just remove the battle timer and do not let a war end until the every single person has used their attacks.
....
Sarcasm aside, more of my real life friends/family continue to quit because clan wars. Many of us are moving over to Star Wars Commander, my clan could become inactive, it sucks as wars are fun, but clan wars are not flexible enough to deal with allowances outside of the game for people with busy schedules.
Whether SuperCell likes it or not people have quit this game due to clan war mechanic and people will continue to do so since it is not flexible enough to allow people to choose when to take a break, without forcing them to leave the clan or drop trophies.
Last edited by Darwyn; September 12th, 2014 at 09:29 PM.
Hello Steve (and forumers)! And thank you very much for the reply!
This is a feature my clan has wanted since Day 1 of Clan Wars and getting an explanation for why it hasn't been included yet is helpful!
A little background on our clan to help you understand some of my reasoning, as I suspect that there are many clans with similar backgrounds/situations that would like to see this feature implemented:
Most of my clan previously met on a different online game and became friendly over a long period of time. The game took a bad turn south and we jumped ship and happened to stumble upon Clash around the same time (thanks for the superawesome game, btw!). Over time, we pulled in a few random people, many associated friends and family from real life, and had a blast playing together. Clan Wars was released and we had a blast with that as well (thanks for that as well, btw!
). Long story short-ish, the eventual answer was to start a dedicated war clan that functions as a de facto "opt in" button. When people feel like warring, they leave the main clan, go to the war clan, and when enough people join, war is started. This has worked well enough for us that we have continued to do it, but it is certainly not ideal for a number of reasons (less clan cohesion, members not getting to spectate wars unless also jumping over to the war clan, waiting for someone to be online in a particular clan you are trying to hop to, etcetc...), and we keep saying to each other, "maybe in the next update, they'll fix this lil ole headache of ours and make our lives a lot easier by allowing us to manage ourselves in clan wars more directly" (the actual conversations are more like: "urg...time to jump clans"; "is anyone online over there?"; "i dunno...lemme text soandso"; "'opt in' feature would be so cool
The main reason for not having an opt in/out feature (that I understand) is that your design philosophy wants everyone to participate in things as a clan, but not having an option to manage war involvement more directly can actually be a hindrance to this. If clans could form "clan groups" that share a common chat or spectate each other's wars, it might be one thing, but as it stands, our clan is consistently spread into 2 separate clans with little inter-clan communication outside of people hopping back and forth with news, or 3rd party chat apps. People already pick and chose the way they want to experience this game and making it harder for them doesn't usually help anyone. Without the "war clan" workaround, we would just cease warring all together, and no one really wants that because wars are fun and no wars would make me a sad panda...
Other main arguments I see against "opt-in/out" features usually involve one of three things:
1. Fear of abuse by leaders gone mad with power...or something like that?
As others have mentioned eloquently, the power for abuse is already there in a nastier form. Would John Q. Clasher rather wake up to see he was opted out of war against his will, or kicked out of his clan entirely? Either way, if he isn't cool with it, he probably wasn't a good fit for that clan for a variety of reasons. Any leader who consistently does things like that for no reason doesn't deserve to run a clan.
2. It would somehow "devalue" the people who have worked hard to be successful at wars.
I don't think this would be the case for several reasons. As a previous poster mentioned, clan wars would still be matched up based on ability. I don't see much of a difference in Clan A of 20 that has kicked/not admitted people unprepared to war or spent the time and effort preparing their 20 members, versus Clan B of 40 that has any number of individual goals within and has 20 of their members "opt out" of a war for whatever reasons. Even were it to be the top 20, that top 20 would still be comparable to the 20 they war against and would have spent a supposedly equal amount of time training themselves/each other and preparing. The main difference would be that they also have some additional friends in the clan to cheer them on. (And I don't think the "big school vs little school" argument someone mentioned is valid here - different schools are usually drawing from two isolated populations that have to attend their school district, in the Clash World, we're all drawing from the same global pool.)
3. If you have a problem with the current system, you must have poor clan management. MY clan doesn't need it, so why should yours?!
This just seems silly and irrelevant. While this may be the case for some clans, I have seen more than enough evidence on just a few forum threads that evince the notion that competent clans with a good management system in place have perfectly valid reasons for wanting a feature like this. The fact remains that clans who don't need or want to use it wouldn't have to and those that do, could...
This has become rather long-winded-ish), and hopping ship over something that can be easily fixed (or more complicatedly fixed, as is the case now) would defeat the reason we started playing in the first place. All we're really asking for is the ability of war clans and non-war clans and everything in between to co-exist more easily in a single clan (harmony and good vibes and stuff...
)
Now on to how to fix it!
I think the easiest and simplest way to do it (and I have seen this mentioned before) is to have toggle switches next to everyone's name that can be flipped by either the individual or the leader/co-leaders (or "opt in/out", in the parlance of the forums). When the switch is set to "war", that person will be counted as they are now when starting a clan war search. When the switch is set to "no war", that person will be counted as if they had left the clan when starting a clan war search. The switch stays how it was set until someone changes it. This may make it slightly easier for players to try and manipulate the clans they get matched with, but only slighter easier than it is now. The individual is responsible for knowing when they are able to war or not and sets it accordingly. The leader/coleaders have the option to switch it so that they can handle emergencies that may arise where an individual can't do it themselves (or forgot to do it) or to adjust numbers to include/not include someone who maybe hasn't gotten a chance to war much (member 46 out of 50?
That's pretty much it! No need to get more complicated! Everything else runs as normal...only people in the war can donate to war castles; trying to regulate people not in the war from donating to people attacking in a war is a lost cause unless you straight up bar anyone not in the war from donating to people in a war. As it stands now, a war clan of TH7s can have a friend who is a TH10 pop in and donate high-level troops to everyone attacking. Maybe not the fairest, but if you fix that in the game as it is, it would be fixed for wars with an opt in/out feature as well.
I don't think this feature as presented would be unnecessarily complex and it should be easy for the majority of players to grasp. No need for "leader chooses" or "variable team sizes" or "have people say they want to war within a certain time of war starting" or anything complicated...those are all solutions that overly-complicate what should be a relatively straight-forward and simple fix...
If you actually read all of this, good on you!
Last edited by etpdgzcvb; September 13th, 2014 at 01:45 AM.
Now that I think about it, having feeder/main clan share chat works better than opting out. The main reason people want opt out is to stay with clan mates without the hassle of rejoining (which, like opt out, is also against the spirit of the game). With shared chat, inactives/non-warrers won't cause problems within the clan and it won't be a partial war, unless people still consider that to be a partial war since only the actives would move to the warring clan. In that case, clans that have a 2nd farming clan are already ruining the spirit of the gameThe main reason for not having an opt in/out feature (that I understand) is that your design philosophy wants everyone to participate in things as a clan, but not having an option to manage war involvement more directly can actually be a hindrance to this. If clans could form "clan groups" that share a common chat or spectate each other's wars, it might be one thing, but as it stands, our clan is consistently spread into 2 separate clans with little inter-clan communication outside of people hopping back and forth with news, or 3rd party chat apps. People already pick and chose the way they want to experience this game and making it harder for them doesn't usually help anyone. Without the "war clan" workaround, we would just cease warring all together, and no one really wants that because wars are fun and no wars would make me a sad panda...
@etpdgzcvb, i can't believe i read all of that, I kinda covered most of the reason to your point and pretty much be one of, if not only the one, of those people who understand you but because of that, i can't totally agree with your statement. I touch upon most of the problem with a opt-out button and how player should behaved beside looking at the arguable reason to the opt-out button, it's a button that is a must have but it's not a clash of clan material kinda button. Admit it, a button that says "opt-out".
try to get a theme button beside a solution to the "opt-out"
could work, but feeder clan wasn't a intended part of CoC
My apologies if I repeated things you said...I was having a little trouble following the original post...😜
As for your response, I think the point you bring up at the end is that the "opt toggle" should be Clash of Clans themed, not simply a button with the words "opt in"?
I agree and this could be designed any number of ways... It could be as simple as tapping the "war icon" next to your name in the clan list: it is as is for "opt in" and grayed out for "out out"... Or something like that; I'm not a designer...😁
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