Opt-out for Clan wars option/button

[Mike585x]

Why not have a final decision sent to those in charge?

"Mike585x is requesting to opt-out on next war ACCEPT - DECLINE"
-or-
"Mike585x is requesting to be war-exempt for 24 hours ACCEPT - DECLINE"

Perhaps add a re-use/cool-down (30 day?) to these options so they can only be used if a player 100% cannot attend?

Just something other than having to kick people out who can't go to war. Everyone has their emergencies from time to time. I had back surgery last week and was in the hospital for a few days, unsure if I was able to war or not. As the only co-leader of my clan (we play the rules right), sure, I still could have left clan for the war. But if I was leader what would I do then? It's not fair to everyone else to just postpone a regularly scheduled war for one person, as it is in MMORPGs. War waits for no man!


P.S. To all those who whine "but the point of clan wars is if ALL clan members participate!".. Yeah, well to run a successful war everyone needs to work together. In which requires communication. In which requires dedication from players who stick by your side and basically become your friends/family. An easier way to know if they can be available or not; rather than relying on the chat box (in which cuts off), on someone else to tell you, or for you to be lucky enough to see their chat before they just up and "leave" without you really knowing why (they would have no choice at this point). So my end point is.. How do you expect to have a solid dedicated Clan if you have to keep switching/shifting people around constantly all the time? It doesn't look good at ALL when people see you always kicking people who can't war out. The current philosophy of CoC: Can't go to war? No problem! Either deal with it (and try to pick up their slack), or kick them out with the possibility of never seeing your friend ever again!

Just noticed:
"When you're in a clan, you should all be in it together!"
Well, if your trusted, dedicated, solid clan members/friends/family can't go to war with you due to an emergency, then you're all not really in it "together", are you? What is the point then? Expendability?

One last thing: Supposedly the Clan Wars feature wasn't even added to the game until over a year and a half after it's initial release? Every clan was probably growing fine but then all of a sudden everyone is forced to war and if they can't they have to be removed? It's really tough to keep track of everyone especially the ones that aren't in your friends list that you could easily re-invite to the clan when applicable. Just a little extra to think on.

[FateValkyrie]

@Mike

I agree, as a leadér, i get question all the time to why i boot players, but it because i set the rules and follow them, even with repeated reminder and a whole juicy page on our clan rules (which most player dont bother to look at) i am listed as the bad guy and started to lose face in my own clan, my co-leader gets better reps then i do.

i get quotes like this. "I better leave before Fate boot me"

and i tell them this, if you didnt force me into this situation then i wouldn't had to, i give chance, does a warning mean empty words to them, as i question myself.

Well what can you do.

Also we can only voice out our option on this post and hope that they read it, cant really reach out to them, unless they have a ticket system to answer your intent.

[BoomKing21]

I hope this issue is on the top of Supercell's to do list.

Keep it simple.

One Switch on or off.

done.

only debate is who has the power to toggle that switch. My vote is Leader, Co-leaders and the player themselves.

[Ozscotto]

I hope this issue is on the top of Supercell's to do list.

Keep it simple.

One Switch on or off.

done.

only debate is who has the power to toggle that switch. My vote is Leader, Co-leaders and the player themselves.

This is what we need

[FateValkyrie]

Great to see new players commenting, but reading some of the post would help because a lot of the same idea and topic has already been bought up.

An idea to a solution to the button has been made many times, could be better if we try a different approach.

Look forward to more ideas.

[Meharin]

No, this would be appreciated by casual clans who want to be made artificially more powerful so they can be as strong as clans that are committed to winning wars. It would be a slap in the face to the clans who have gone through the efforts and pains of making themselves powerful through hard work and dedication.

It wouldn't make clans artificially more powerful. It stops making clans who aren't 100% full of warring members artificially less powerful! BIG DIFFERENCE!!

If a 50 member clan has 25 opt out, they will only be doing 25v25 wars. 25v25 war wins deserve less prestige than 50v50 war wins (no matter whether your clan has 25 members or 50) and I wish Supercell showed this instead of just 1 clan wins stat, which means little in my books.

A losing 50 member clan could kick 25 of its weakest players to become a winning 25 member clan. This doesn't make them more powerful. It doesn't make the 25 stronger members any stronger, it makes them more lonely.

[Meharin]

If as Steve hinted and their initial deployment indicates it is SC's intent for Clan Wars to be exactly that (the entire clan), then pitting your top 35 vs a dedicated full clan of 35 is the definition of making a weak 50 person clan competitive with a strong 35 person clan. You are allowing the 50 person clan to stack the odds in their favor. There is well documented evidence of this in every form of competition.

The 50 person clan could very simply kick the 15 members who aren't good at war or don't want to war to be a strong 35 member clan. Why punish a 35v35 war clan for wanting to have 15 extra non-warring friends around? To me it sounds like being a killjoy for no reason.

Take two high schools for example. One has 500 students, the other has 2500 students so the state considers them both to be in the same division. They only get to put 5/6/9/11 players on the field at a time depending on the sport. However the bigger school will almost always be the favorite to win, because they have more players to pick from.

You have a point with highschools, but I do not think the analogy is that compelling for CoC, nor the best analogy.

Consider high school of 750 (or 1500 or 1250 for variations in thought experiments), and another high school with 1500 people that specializes in special needs and physically handicapped people and has 500 special needs kids (one third of the school.) The CoC-style scenario we have now is that their sports team, say football team with a roster of 50, must be comprised of a representative sample of the entire school, because there is no opt-out, so everyone must be represented. This means that the first high school will have 50 physically capable football players, while the second high school will have a team with 16 or 17 (one third) handicapped people on it. (Wheelchairs, etc.. A total disaster. Untenable, and not fun for the kids who want to be on a serious team.)

So, what supercell is effectively doing is forcing the 2nd highschool to either expel the 500 handicapped kids (how mean is that!? It would also break up friendships for no good reason) or effectively deny the entire school the opportunity to play football (that takes away fun for a lot of people! Also for no good reason.)

Let the kids who want to play ...play!

I really appreciate the comment from SuperSteve/Supercell, but I still plead: please think through this more deeply and from more perspectives.

---

Also with high schools, they are still "one school", yet not everyone is forced to be on the basketball / football team, etc. So if high schools is the analogy, it shoots the "one clan that must do everything together" idea to kingdom come!
The non-footballers still go to the football games and cheer the team on, and they are still "one school".

---

There may also be countering forces that might very well more than offset your analogy of being able to pick the best. Strong war attackers will be drawn to big wars, which are more glorious (and I wish Supercell gave them more prestige somehow), so if they see a 50 person clan with only 15 of the strongest members playing in 15v15 wars, they will probably realize it is not a serious war clan, and find one that is. This makes it harder for clans with a large percentage of opting-out to recruit talent.

Also, clans that keep friends around because they are friends and not because they are good at war will tend not to improve as quickly as clans that kick out those with poor base designs and attacking ability.

So, I do not think elite clans should at all feel threatened by opt-out/opt-in.

[awesomness2016]

We always try to avoid unnecessary complexity in our feature design and strive for features that work consistently and simply for all players. Some players would be thrilled with an opt-out system, but others would prefer things like opt-in, leader-chooses, variable team sizes, or other solutions.

A toggle button does opt-in/opt-out. The only real question seems to be whether the players control, or the leaders control, or both. The only other options I see include letting leaders create war rosters, which more or less amounts to the same thing, or letting someone be excused for a day or a week or the next war, or whatever, and maybe even only allowing it a certain number of times, but as others have said, the cleaner the option the better.

When you're in a clan, you should all be in it together! Even further, implementing a system that can enable undue pressure on players ("Opt out or we'll kick you" or "Give me Crab Claws or you can't come to war with us") falls far short of this mark.

This makes me think Supercell needs to let go of the idea that it really has any power to control the clan experience. That power lies with the leaders, who set the rules and tone for the clan. By your own example, the current system actually enables undue pressure on players, as a leader could say "Trophy down so you're a spectator in the war or we'll kick you." It's really just not a good argument at all. And seriously, who wants to be in a clan like that? Wouldn't you just go find a different one?

That being said, we're in favor of adding more control and meaningful direction to Clan Wars. When we look into the next batch of Clan Wars features, that will be the time to reconsider things like opt-out systems, and possibly come up with better solutions that encourage everyone in their Clan to stick together and participate no matter what.

That's the point...clans DO want to stick together. The leaders are overwhelmingly telling you they DON'T want to have to kick good and loyal members just because those members can't participate in a war, but right now they feel like they don't have a choice because it hurts the entire clan to keep a member you know will be counted in but not use their attacks. You can encourage people to participate all you want, but the reality is that sometimes people go on vacation and don't have service or can't bring their device, have emergencies, are too busy with work, etc., and you also seem to forget that there are many types of clans, and you want to be able to accommodate all of them, rather than forcing them into your definition of what a clan should be.

If you're worried about leaders abusing power if they can decide who is in the war, don't--players that feel that a leader is abusing power or doesn't run a clan the way they think it should be run will do what they've always done--find a different clan or start their own.

Similarly, if you're worried about individuals only participating in certain aspects of the clan, and continuously opting out of war, don't be worried about that either. If the leaders don't have a problem with it, I don't see why Supercell should, and if the leaders of a clan that expects all its players to participate in war see a member abusing the opt out feature, the leaders will do what leaders do, and tell them that if they are going to opt out all the time, they'll need to find a different clan.

Also, while I have your attention I would really really really like to have a page to list the full clan rules, and perhaps another that is specific to war.

Thanks for listening,

Awesomness2016

(Currently missing his level 84 account and hoping Supercell can restore it)

[Bashers]

Supercell's criteria is keep it simple so a player can opt in or out if they choose. If the leader doesnt like it, kick them out. Don't what if this to death SC. I mean for real, what if we're hit by a meteor tomorrow? Will this all matter? I'm a leader an its ripping my clan an were all old friends. A FAR bigger issue then any of your what ifs. Before u measure the negative compare it to the positive (420 & think about it)

[Farideo]

Considering my thread was before yours and you've got more spirit in keeping the thread active and alive. Please take more ideas from my thread and forgive me I haven't read your wall of text yet.. but feel free to make it larger. =)

http://forum.supercell.net/showthrea...96#post2701596