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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Clan War Matching - When and How does your clan get FLAGGED with a 'good war log'

  1. #1
    Forum Veteran blombardo's Avatar
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    Clan War Matching - When and How does your clan get FLAGGED with a 'good war log'

    This is regarding War Matching when you have a GOOD war log - exactly how 'good' does it have to be before your clans effected? 5 wins in a row? 10 100% ties in a row? How 'bad' does it have to get before you are removed from this extra matching requirement? That is what I hope to figure out.

    The intention of this topic is to answer these questions:

    1. What factors will flag your clan into the 'harder to find a match unless the other clan has an identical / comparable war log' -- I'm talking exact numbers here... as in
    a. X number of wins vs losses
    b. X winstreak
    c. X number of 100% ties

    2. What factors will UNFLAG your clan and remove you from this check box?
    a. X number of losses (after Y number of wins? or just X number of losses period)
    b. loosing a win streak (or does the size of the winstreak amplify the number of losses one must have to be un flagged)
    c. Tie games 100% on each side - will this unflag you? Flag you - or have no effect?

    3. Once flagged by this system what will constitute a comparable clan match
    a. (proven)- even with a 100% identical match with town halls/offense/defense/heroes /weight on perfect cloned accounts - you will NOT MATCH once flagged)
    b. how many wins / losses/ ties / must the enemy clan have to match you - (will this vary and increase with difficulty as your clan increases its numbers? or is it a black and white check box that flags or unflags you period?)



    THE FACTS:
    *a normal clan will match a normal clan easily and fast... but once your war log is 'deemed good' -= your match time will increase significantly or you will RECEIVE NO MATCH FOUND ERRORS DAY AFTER DAY FOREVER because of the new checks / balances that prevent you from matching clans that do not have 'good war logs'

    I've noticed this when self matching - using identical accounts and burner clans - that will never match a specific clan due to this hidden check box in the matching system.

    It could be a flaw or it may be designed that way... I do not know without more testing; but I felt it valuable to look into.


    Example #1 for those needing visual details: here is an example roster where the first line represents clan 1, second line clan 2 third line clan 1 fourth line clan 2.. account names omitted... but this set will self match easily and consistently in various proven examples over the past 5 years and six times in the past couple months.

    Four of these are defenseless - ALL of them are uniquely engineered in some way... combined no other clan in the world would likely match them (on purpose for this experiment=- having a controlled environment)


    TH War Weight BK AQ GW
    11 93 50 50 20
    11 94 50 50 20
    11 93 49 50 20
    11 93 50 50 20
    11 82 46 50 20
    11 82 49 50 20
    11 88 40 41 1
    11 86 40 40 1
    11 73 41 43 20
    11 70 41 42 20
    9 60 13 12
    9 58 13 12
    11 56 38 40 20
    11 51 34 42 20
    9 55 12 9
    9 55 12 9
    9 50 13 13
    9 48 13 13
    9 48 5 4
    9 48? 5 3
    8 41 2
    8 42 4
    9 40 2
    8 41 2
    7 25
    7 26
    7 29
    7 27
    10 27 26 30 0
    9 28 26 27 0
    5
    5


    So lets take NightmareGuild3 for an example #G09VUJGU Log is 79-3-20 total 102 wars. level 7 dead for many years.

    It failed to match a burner with 2 wins five times (doing 5x 10x 15x etc)
    It failed to match NightmareGuild2 two times (NG2 is former FWA with 257 wins 248 losses 12 draws 517 total - a 50/50 log)

    Yet when using the same accounts (listed above) they will self match from NG2 to a burner or from a burner to another burner with no problem.

    So by my small test here -= the WAR LOG in NG3 is not allowing the clan to match another clan unless that other clan ALSO has a comparable war log - and would rather return NO MATCH FOUND than give it a war vs a perfectly matched clan with a new / or worse war log.

    ------------------

    So the questions are...

    How will I be able to get NG3 to match my NG4 clan?

    1. win streak needed in ng4?
    2. Number of wins vs losses over X number of wars required in NG4 before it can match?
    3. will a bunch of 100% tie draws help make it match?

    How will I get NG3 to match the NG2 clan?
    1. does NG2 have to win X number of wars over a period of ___ wars before it can match?
    2. does NG2 need to have a streak of _______ wars ?
    3. does NG2 need X number of 100% tie/draws to compare?

    Once NG3 does match another clan (any clan for that matter if I decide to use a standard war composition to match in the 'wild')
    1. Should I loose on purpose so it can have a better chance of self matching vs a burner?
    2. How often should it loose vs win if I want to avoid being tagged by this secret war matching check box?
    3. Will 100% draw ties effect the matchmaking algorithm or are those ignored as a loss?



    *I intend to test this answer myself by artificially generating a 100% win streak with my NightmareGuild4 clan until it reaches a point where it will not match anymore; then I will try to match it vs nightmareguild3 to see if they will match and I need to decide if I should tie, or let one loose.

    I'm hoping some of you may help me make that decision so I can UN FLAG my account and match easier.
    Last edited by blombardo; May 17th, 2021 at 01:42 PM.

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  2. #2
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    Pretty big leap of faith there to assume it is winstreak related. Have you weeded out any chance it has more to do with an algorithm that stops matching with the same clan more than X number of times in Y frequency? That is likely what I would have coded years ago to stop wintrading and if it still remains, it has this unexpected benefit in curbing self matchers.
    Last edited by Tosti111; May 17th, 2021 at 02:38 PM.
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  3.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #3
    All we have been told by Supercell is that "recent war record is taken into account".

    I am not convinced that means war streak as such. It isn't of course, at all clear from that what is meant by "recent" - it could mean last 5 wars, last 10 wars, or wars within last month, or anything similar.

    I believe it is also quite a small element in the MM - it certainly shouldn't be enough to completely stop you matching against other clans, as your results suggest.

    I suspect it may be more as Tosti suggests, that there is something in the algorithm preventing you from matching the same opponent more than a certain (low) number of times in a given period.

  4. #4
    For a long time we all pointed out SC never said "win streak" and instead only said "recent war performance." Then more recently Darian did specifically say "win streak." I followed-up on that with questions asking whether he did that on purpose, but I don't think we got an answer. I don't recall which thread that was.

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  5. #5
    Forum Veteran blombardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tosti111 View Post
    Pretty big leap of faith there to assume it is winstreak related. Have you weeded out any chance it has more to do with an algorithm that stops matching with the same clan more than X number of times in Y frequency? That is likely what I would have coded years ago to stop wintrading and if it still remains, it has this unexpected benefit in curbing self matchers.
    Very good point that i failed to mention.

    These clans have never matched each other before in the history of time... I believe there is a 20 day delay or perhaps a 20 clan limit imposed between when clans can match; I forget.. someone in the FWA figured it out - in the Web Rage Farm family for example we self match across our 7 clans more often that we would expect.. but thats on accident.


    The method of self matching requires one to have a large pool of clans (I know a few who experimented with this using about 50 burner clans that were rotated) - of course the FWA network has been doing this many years and you could look at their statistics on how often the same clans will match one another after the initial match...

    Other self matching streak clans (that I never met, only heard of) would make a new burner clan each war - and disband it at the end so the main clan would climb in perks fast... (this is my goal with NG3 to get it up to level 10... or to randomly help anyone else that wants clan perks and easy loot in the process who can't quite make it into FWA)

    I can easily rule this out as I've always - only - used fresh never matched before clans to do this.


    I'm confident that it would have to be the war log causing this; just need to find any other clans who have experienced the specific 'War log' flag and who actually noticed a change... probably only a handful of clans can say they were aware of this.

    (I first became aware of this with my original NightmareGuild - doing 50x wars and earning 150 stars every time 92 wars in a row.. after the MM change that clan NEVER matched again... over 6 weeks I started search every day and nothing...

    *(but that was also when they changed the engineering sliders.. and we were 100% engineered.. so at the time I assumed it was all cause of engineering... now 3 or so years later- in retrospect I bet some of it also had to do with the war log.)

    I'll test that theory with NG clan once I have 50 accounts again that are ready to experiment.. I'm only able to muster about 20 pairs right now... still balancing out my others ... I'll need to recruit helpers or make more accounts to test the theory on 50x matches up there... not meaning to go off topic... this is specific to NG3 for my current experiment.
    Last edited by blombardo; May 17th, 2021 at 03:49 PM.

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  6. #6
    Forum Veteran blombardo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post


    I believe it is also quite a small element in the MM - it certainly shouldn't be enough to completely stop you matching against other clans, as your results suggest.

    I suspect it may be more as Tosti suggests, that there is something in the algorithm preventing you from matching the same opponent more than a certain (low) number of times in a given period.

    You may be correct; but without knowing we can only guess.

    If its not the war log causing this failure to match - perhaps it is based on the suggestion in another post years ago where someone called out supercell and suggested that they should have a clan fail to match if any single player in one of those clans was also in a war before.

    I doubt this is the case but even if thats possible - Nightmareguild3 has not gone to war in over 3 years... its highly unlikely that a flag of that sort would even remember what accounts were in the last war done over there... I could easily verify this by only using accounts created in the last 2 years- which I will aim to try in the future just to rule that out.



    *I would wager a bet that I personally have experienced more 'no match found errors' than any other player in this game.

    Not a good thing lol..
    Last edited by blombardo; May 17th, 2021 at 03:55 PM.

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  7. #7
    Forum Champion joshsgrandad's Avatar
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    I still see streaker clans building on what they got, visited 2 of them, and played in another one..
    All 3 of them are massively over the 3 figure mark, yet still match with rusher clans of varying war log prowess without too much difficulty..
    How could this be possible if there were flags in place?.. Surely they would either match each other or not match at all.

    In my experience, having a few war wins increases the likelihood of matching another clan that has recently won a few matches..
    Also in my experience, the roster breakdown one puts out has far more impact on the draw..
    Total roster weight, hall distribution patterns, individual account build, are the major contributory factors in gaining a typical match..
    but even that is somewhat governed by how common the breakdown is, because if the timer starts ticking on the search, then a shift in the matching parameters can lead to a total disregard of patterns..

    We are seeing a lot of wars against opposition whom obviously regard cwl as their priority war system..
    Whereas we max our halls, it seems obvious to me those guys are pushing more to reach top hall..
    Good for us, since we like our war log, but not really what the MMA should be about.

    So far as self matching..
    I was one of a few that assisted Major Johnson in showing how easy it is to do..
    Granted, the recent performance likely wasnt an issue..
    But streaker clans couldnt build streaks with flags in place is still my sticking point.

    If they wont match, in my opinion it wont be because of recent war performance.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    I still see streaker clans building on what they got, visited 2 of them, and played in another one..
    All 3 of them are massively over the 3 figure mark, yet still match with rusher clans of varying war log prowess without too much difficulty..
    How could this be possible if there were flags in place?..
    I'd say it is because recent war performance is a factor, but they overcome it with their extreme roster engineering. Also, there are many thousands of those rusher clans, while only a few of those streak clans.

    Based on my own clan, I can tell there is a recent war performance factor. I don't know how much of a factor it is, but as I always say, it is too much since there shouldn't be any factor along those lines in my opinion. Also, as noted yesterday, Darian did recently describe it as streak, not just recent performance, but I don't think he clarified.

    Yes, I do want to actually match a clan with a losing record. Not always, that would be boring, but they must be out there, that is how averages work, so we should be matching them, but we don't (at least not based on the ones that have war logs open).

    Contact SC here. Click here for how trophies are calculated. An idea to improve legends here. I wish max players had a separate loot bank as described here. Caution, I often discuss for the sake of discussion and enjoy having my opinion challenged (or approved of) even when I care little about the actual issue. My balance wish: get rid of tornado trap, make it a decoration.

  9. #9
    Forum Veteran Rizzob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    Yes, I do want to actually match a clan with a losing record. Not always, that would be boring, but they must be out there, that is how averages work, so we should be matching them, but we don't (at least not based on the ones that have war logs open).
    Assuming you are talking about overall war records, isn't there some selection bias here though? In the sense that clans with losing war records are more likely to die off or can't recruit/retain enough high-level bases to match with you.

    I'm just thinking that maybe the last dozen or so wars of your opponents might be more meaningful than overall record.

  10. #10
    Forum Champion joshsgrandad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    I'd say it is because recent war performance is a factor, but they overcome it with their extreme roster engineering. Also, there are many thousands of those rusher clans, while only a few of those streak clans.

    Based on my own clan, I can tell there is a recent war performance factor. I don't know how much of a factor it is, but as I always say, it is too much since there shouldn't be any factor along those lines in my opinion. Also, as noted yesterday, Darian did recently describe it as streak, not just recent performance, but I don't think he clarified.

    Yes, I do want to actually match a clan with a losing record. Not always, that would be boring, but they must be out there, that is how averages work, so we should be matching them, but we don't (at least not based on the ones that have war logs open).
    I was posting on why I dont think there are flags, not on how streaker clans get their match.
    If there were flags, then it wouldnt matter a hoot how many rusher clans are out there.

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