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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Builder Huts have more war weight then Eagle+Inferno+Scatter

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Def4ultpl4y3r View Post
    It's also a ruled out idea to have weaponised builders so how did this make it into the game in the first place?
    I have presumed that this is due to the Finnish using old idioms without really understanding English.

    Rule out in English means “definitely not going to happen ever”, but here it means “already noted”

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrosetentoes View Post
    The builder repair is mostly negligible, it's really kind of just a gimmick. It only does 50-60 repair per second depending on level, but it's more like 40-48 per repair if you go by the wikia repair rate of .8s. So you only need two lvl9 archers to negate that repairing effect, because two archers do 62 dps.

    If you take into consideration the splash damage and the increased dps over the entirety of the multiple thousand hit points of the apex defenses, then the battle huts really shouldn't have as much weight. But it would be close.
    Except most people who use quake don't immediately drop troops in front of the buildings that were damaged. From what I see it takes a couple seconds between quakes and troops being deployed those are a few seconds that your buildings are being repaired. If they drop quake on opposite side of base then those buildings will be fully repaired by the time troops get there.

  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #73
    Quote Originally Posted by George1971 View Post
    I have presumed that this is due to the Finnish using old idioms without really understanding English.

    Rule out in English means “definitely not going to happen ever”, but here it means “already noted”
    It actually says "These ideas and suggestions have been ruled out by the dev team for the time being.". Note that "for the time being", it is important.

  4. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptain Kat View Post
    Negligible?
    Are you sure ?

    In our last CWL a mere lowly level 2 builder hut caused an attacker to walk away with a 1 star on my base instead of a 2. The town hall was left standing with just a sliver of health left and would have fallen if it were not for that silly little builder who started repairing the town hall as soon as it was hit by the quad quake early on in the raid.
    Since that particular war was also pretty close it meant the difference between winning and losing that war and ultimately later in the season it meant the difference between staying in M1 or a promo to champ 3. One little insignificant not even maxed yet builder hut...

    but sure I guess it is a matter of perspective and what people call negligible..
    Congrats on your defense, but that one instance doesn't put the battle huts at the top right?

    Again, it only takes two lvl 9 archers to negate the repair effect and only ten lvl 9 archers to negate the repair effect of all 5 repairing together. I'd call that mostly negligible. That doesn't mean that they're useless or that they don't have their moments to shine. It just means that their weighting is probably overinflated when compared to the other featured defenses.

    Where exactly would you place their weight?

  5.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrosetentoes View Post
    Congrats on your defense, but that one instance doesn't put the battle huts at the top right?

    Again, it only takes two lvl 9 archers to negate the repair effect and only ten lvl 9 archers to negate the repair effect of all 5 repairing together. I'd call that mostly negligible. That doesn't mean that they're useless or that they don't have their moments to shine. It just means that their weighting is probably overinflated when compared to the other featured defenses.

    Where exactly would you place their weight?
    I would place it pretty well exactly where it is. Maybe even a fraction higher.

    I really don't understand why people are believing it should be less.

    Even without accounting for the healing (which is NOT negligible - where are those extra archers coming from?), just by looking at the HP & DPS, they are worth more than the upgrades to the "big" defences are.

    The healing effect may look negligible, but if it means it takes an extra shot or two to take down a defence or the TH, that can make a massive difference to an attack. It means an extra second or two with your troops coming under fire from that defence - and from the next defence that they would have got to earlier.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrosetentoes View Post
    The builder repair is mostly negligible, it's really kind of just a gimmick. It only does 50-60 repair per second depending on level, but it's more like 40-48 per repair if you go by the wikia repair rate of .8s. So you only need two lvl9 archers to negate that repairing effect, because two archers do 62 dps.

    If you take into consideration the splash damage and the increased dps over the entirety of the multiple thousand hit points of the apex defenses, then the battle huts really shouldn't have as much weight. But it would be close.
    Negligible? I suggest you try to zap-quake an air defense without considering if there's a nearby healing builder hut. All they need is to reach the AD before you drop everything, and you've just wasted three spells. And they move quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptain Kat View Post
    Darn... that’s another one convinced of the usefulness of builder huts. I quite enjoy seeing so many people ignore them in multiplayer
    I know, it's amazing how few people have upgraded them yet. Good for me, I guess. I upgraded mine first, and when they finished, there was a noticeable difference in my defense log.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    The builder hut weight is not > MAX eagle + 2 scatters +3 inferno + Lvl 3 TH

    The new builder hut weight is > the DIFFERENCE between level 4 and level 5 eagle, level 2 and -3 scattershot (*2) etc.

    It isn't possible to have a TH14 without eagle and the rest, but if you could, and compared the weight of one with just the builder huts upgraded and NO eagle etc to one with eagle level 1, you would find a big difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Redrosetentoes View Post
    Congrats on your defense, but that one instance doesn't put the battle huts at the top right?

    Again, it only takes two lvl 9 archers to negate the repair effect and only ten lvl 9 archers to negate the repair effect of all 5 repairing together. I'd call that mostly negligible. That doesn't mean that they're useless or that they don't have their moments to shine. It just means that their weighting is probably overinflated when compared to the other featured defenses.

    Where exactly would you place their weight?
    Redrose it sounds like you have the viewpoint of the original thought posted by OP. It's not that the huts are > the "big guns", its what Ajax said...its the difference in the upgrades vs the new buildings. You can't upgrade huts without already having all those "big gun" defenses so your weight already accounts for the fact you have them.

  8.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redrosetentoes View Post
    Congrats on your defense, but that one instance doesn't put the battle huts at the top right?

    Again, it only takes two lvl 9 archers to negate the repair effect and only ten lvl 9 archers to negate the repair effect of all 5 repairing together. I'd call that mostly negligible. That doesn't mean that they're useless or that they don't have their moments to shine. It just means that their weighting is probably overinflated when compared to the other featured defenses.

    Where exactly would you place their weight?
    I thought I’d made that pretty clear already but if not I agree with Ajax here.

    People are picking the builder huts apart only looking at their individual stats. Their damage isn’t all that, the heal can be almost ignored as it’s “only” so and so etc. but you need to look at the big and complete picture of all 5. And then wait for the better base to utilize them properly.

    A single drop of water is nothing, a few drops quickly form a puddle and with enough drops eventually you have an ocean.
    Its little bits here and little bits there. A repairing builder can cause your troops to need an extra shot or hit on something, it doesn’t matter if a pekka of BK just needs an extra hit and overkill a building. It’s one extra strike used. One strike slower to the next building while he absorbs one more hit from the other defenses nearby. It all matters. 1 wall piece upgraded doesn’t do much either but a base with maxed walls is a lot more difficult then a base with wooden walls.

    Like I said feel free to ignore them and I hope many people do. Makes my life easier.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    I would place it pretty well exactly where it is. Maybe even a fraction higher.

    I really don't understand why people are believing it should be less.

    Even without accounting for the healing (which is NOT negligible - where are those extra archers coming from?), just by looking at the HP & DPS, they are worth more than the upgrades to the "big" defences are.

    The healing effect may look negligible, but if it means it takes an extra shot or two to take down a defence or the TH, that can make a massive difference to an attack. It means an extra second or two with your troops coming under fire from that defence - and from the next defence that they would have got to earlier.

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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    It actually says "These ideas and suggestions have been ruled out by the dev team for the time being.". Note that "for the time being", it is important.
    Noted. An idiom contradiction.

  10. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    I would place it pretty well exactly where it is. Maybe even a fraction higher.

    I really don't understand why people are believing it should be less.

    Even without accounting for the healing (which is NOT negligible - where are those extra archers coming from?), just by looking at the HP & DPS, they are worth more than the upgrades to the "big" defences are.

    The healing effect may look negligible, but if it means it takes an extra shot or two to take down a defence or the TH, that can make a massive difference to an attack. It means an extra second or two with your troops coming under fire from that defence - and from the next defence that they would have got to earlier.
    The archer example is just a form of representation to try to better depict as to why the repair effect is mostly negligible. 2 archers is representative of the repair effect of one builder. 10 archers is representative of the repair effect of 5 builders. That means that the repair effect could be seen as equivalent to 10 housing spaces out of 300 spaces in your camps. 10 out of 300 being a small amount to people could be considered as mostly negligible. That doesn't mean that the repair effect won't make some difference, but a massive difference... I don't know about that.

    The reason some people might come to different conclusions as to the weighting of the battle huts is that they may be looking at more variables. Such as the extra beam on the inferno, poison bomb's effects, range, splash damage, and the new lvl dps over the entire amount of the big defenses hit points. The point of a discussion isn't so that we all jump on the same bandwagon, but that we try to look at every aspect and every angle and every avenue. That way we are less likely to overlook something.

    So let's look at the numbers again. For the Inferno we have +12dps times 5 beams times 3 towers equals 180, then we add the new 6th beam at 105dps for 3 towers equals 315dps. 180dps plus 315dps equals 495dps. +400hp * 3 towers equals 1200hp. The eagle is just +15dps and +400hp. The scatters is +20dps * 2 scatters equals 40dps and +600hp * 2 scatters equals 1200hp. The poison bomb does +40dps. Totals are 550dps and 2800hp.
    Battle huts are 80dps * 5 equals 400 dps and +750hp * 5 equals 3750hp.

    Big 3 + poison bomb lvl3 Battle huts lvl2
    dps 550dps > 400dps
    hp 2800hp < 3750hp
    splash Eagle 5/hit, scatters 40-60/hit, poison 40dps >
    repair < 50-250hp/s
    range 10-50 > 7

    Well well well, the picture wasn't quite as clear as we all thought...for either side. I think the weight leans slightly towards the big 3, but those battle huts with the hit points and repair effect could be a headache in some instances. The battle hut stats at level 4 do start to look formidable.

    Anyway, what I don't understand is why people keep using the term "healing" for the builder's ability. LoL
    Last edited by Redrosetentoes; May 12th, 2021 at 02:43 AM. Reason: Edited to update poison bomb stats noted by chased123456.

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