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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Donít want clans to get jacked but ...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deafkate View Post
    Not worried about clan points.

    From the very informative discussion so far, I now wholeheartedly disagree with your answer to the initial question. The answer is clearly “yes” and scammers are exploiting it on black market sites, taking advantage of misinformed and gullible clashers.

    I am uncertain if there is more or less value in working up your clan compared to “buying” a clan, but that is not relevant to the point here. There certainly is value in a leveled-up clan, evidenced by the price scammers are apparently able to command on the black market sites. By not enabling a way to resurrect inactive clans, Supercell is leaving value on the table and allowing scammers to take advantage of clashers.
    I'm extremely confused with the whole direction of this discussion. You seem to be claiming that the current system is beneficial to scammers when it is anything but. It is in fact your proposed idea that does this because scammers won't even need to scam anymore. They just steal the clans outright.

    Let dead clans die. Clans have no actual value and are replaceable. From a design standpoint, this new system ruins the entire clan experience anyway. Instead of starting up a level one clan and slowly building up, you just simply steal (yes, steal) some random person's clan and take all their hard work away instead. This is work you did not earn, and you just ruined the game for the person should they choose to return to it.
    Last edited by Ostentatious; April 23rd, 2021 at 03:18 AM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by vansimon View Post
    Based on your suggestion.... of someone with zero involvement in a unused clan, being able to just take it over, (pay some gold.... as you have added), to be come leader, to save building the a new clan up... why not also extend this to abandoned accounts.... why the bother to make a new one and work it up, when you can just find an account not used for 2 years and claim it?
    I know you are not suggesting this, but I see this as the next extension to your idea if this ever came about, and I think itís just as bad as letting someone just take on an abandoned clan...
    I am just a simple player with one account that I have played on and off for several years. So maybe I am missing something about your suggestion. I know that I can go on the game and browse lots of clans. When I browse clans I find many that are inactive and wonder about how they could be resurrected. I donít know how one could browse inactive accounts to reactivate one; it seems completely different from the clans which is already in the game.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ostentatious View Post
    I'm extremely confused with the whole direction of this discussion. You seem to be claiming that the current system is beneficial to scammers when it is anything but. It is in fact your proposed idea that does this because scammers won't even need to scam anymore. They just steal the clans outright.

    Let dead clans die. Clans have no actual value and are replaceable. From a design standpoint, this new system ruins the entire clan experience anyway. Instead of starting up a level one clan and slowly building up, you just simply steal (yes, steal) some random person's clan and take all their hard work away instead. This is work you did not earn, and you just ruined the game for the person should they choose to return to it.
    Sorry that you are confused. This is long to try and explain.

    1. There is no stealing from anyone because nobody except Supercell owns the clans. Check the terms. Otherwise, Supercell would be wasting its time trying to return clan leadership to people who lost it. So, no, not stealing.

    2. I have not confirmed this myself, but others who have participated in this discussion and who I find credible have informed me that there is an ongoing problem with scammers selling clans on black market websites. Scammers are placing a value on it and uninformed, gullible clashers are paying for it. Therefore, yes, there is a value in used clans.

    3. Under the current system, if you start a clan, promote a bunch of coleaders, level up to level 10, and get a great clan wars winning percentage, and then you have to quit, you have two choices. You can hand over the leader role to a trusted coleader and hope things go well until you return. And you are no longer the leader. Or you go AWOL. After 90 days of inactivity, your account is demoted to member and the next coleader is promoted to leader. And you are no longer the leader.
    In my proposal, one year after the last coleader is promoted to leader and is inactive for 90 days does the ďclaim leader roleĒ button appear. By this time there is little left of your hard work except a high level clan with a cool name. Why not let a reasonably active clasher pick up the banner for the clan. Years later, if you log on to your account and wonder what happened to your clan, under the current system, you will find yourself as the last member in the clan with an inactive leader. Under my proposal, you may find a button to claim the leadership role back or you may find a vibrant clan with a new leader and members, both of which I think are better options.

    4. You say let dead clans die. But why not use the inventory of dead clans to flood the market for clans that seems to exist? Black markets are eliminated by removing the restrictions that created them in the first place.

    5. With everything in Clash of Clans, it takes time or you can pay to rush it. You can wait for your heroes to upgrade or you pay for the hero book. You can wait to collect the resources or you buy them. Why not add a choice to start your very own clan at level 1 for 40000 gold or resurrect a clan (that you cannot change the name of because it is not new) for some more gold/elixir depending upon the level?

    6. Currently, Supercell is restricting the transfer of clans, which it owns, and the result is clashers are getting scammed in black market websites. Supercell needs to find a way to fairly lift the restrictions so that the black market is no longer worthwhile. And they could get clashers to spend more resources.

  4.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Deafkate View Post
    Sorry that you are confused. This is long to try and explain.

    1. There is no stealing from anyone because nobody except Supercell owns the clans. Check the terms. Otherwise, Supercell would be wasting its time trying to return clan leadership to people who lost it. So, no, not stealing.
    Supercell never to my knowledge attempt to return lost leadership. Support say they do not get involved in clan politics, and consider lost leadership to be such.

    2. I have not confirmed this myself, but others who have participated in this discussion and who I find credible have informed me that there is an ongoing problem with scammers selling clans on black market websites. Scammers are placing a value on it and uninformed, gullible clashers are paying for it. Therefore, yes, there is a value in used clans.
    There is, but only because people are too lazy/greedy/impatient to put in the required effort to get a high level clan.

    3. Under the current system, if you start a clan, promote a bunch of coleaders, level up to level 10, and get a great clan wars winning percentage, and then you have to quit, you have two choices. You can hand over the leader role to a trusted coleader and hope things go well until you return. And you are no longer the leader. Or you go AWOL. After 90 days of inactivity, your account is demoted to member and the next coleader is promoted to leader. And you are no longer the leader.
    In my proposal, one year after the last coleader is promoted to leader and is inactive for 90 days does the “claim leader role” button appear. By this time there is little left of your hard work except a high level clan with a cool name. Why not let a reasonably active clasher pick up the banner for the clan. Years later, if you log on to your account and wonder what happened to your clan, under the current system, you will find yourself as the last member in the clan with an inactive leader. Under my proposal, you may find a button to claim the leadership role back or you may find a vibrant clan with a new leader and members, both of which I think are better options.
    I don't think either of those are better, and I also think that the number of times this would happen is so minuscule as to be not worth considering as a reason for making a not insignificant change.

    4. You say let dead clans die. But why not use the inventory of dead clans to flood the market for clans that seems to exist? Black markets are eliminated by removing the restrictions that created them in the first place.
    This might just reduce the value a little. It certainly wouldn't cause the problem to go away, but instead would significantly increase it, since it would now be very much easier for the scammers to get hold of a clan.

    5. With everything in Clash of Clans, it takes time or you can pay to rush it. You can wait for your heroes to upgrade or you pay for the hero book. You can wait to collect the resources or you buy them. Why not add a choice to start your very own clan at level 1 for 40000 gold or resurrect a clan (that you cannot change the name of because it is not new) for some more gold/elixir depending upon the level?
    Actually, clan levels is one of the things in Clash that you can't pay to rush. This would introduce a back door method of doing so.

    6. Currently, Supercell is restricting the transfer of clans, which it owns,
    No they aren't.

    Any clan leader can choose to transfer the leadership to any other player they choose. No restrictions at all.

    and the result is clashers are getting scammed in black market websites. Supercell needs to find a way to fairly lift the restrictions so that the black market is no longer worthwhile. And they could get clashers to spend more resources.
    They most certainly do NOT need a way to lift these so-called restrictions.

    There is no doubt whatsoever that the main result of the change would be a significant increase in the black market in clans.

    And I can't see any real benefit to it for legitimate players.

  5. #25
    Ajax, or anyone,
    What happens to inactive, dead clans? Does Supercell cull them out periodically? Or are they on the servers taking up space forever? Thank you.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deafkate View Post
    Ajax, or anyone,
    What happens to inactive, dead clans? Does Supercell cull them out periodically? Or are they on the servers taking up space forever? Thank you.
    Based on my selection of clan bookmarks:

    Inactive clans, no activity but has members, they stay forever.

    Dead clans are clans with no members. They seem to be deleted. Their name remains in my bookmarks, but there is no data for the clan when you go to it.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by George1971 View Post
    Based on my selection of clan bookmarks:

    Inactive clans, no activity but has members, they stay forever.

    Dead clans are clans with no members. They seem to be deleted. Their name remains in my bookmarks, but there is no data for the clan when you go to it.
    After longer enough, those names even disappear and just say no entry found. Ive seen a few of those in my bookmarks.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deafkate View Post
    Ajax, or anyone,
    What happens to inactive, dead clans? Does Supercell cull them out periodically? Or are they on the servers taking up space forever? Thank you.
    I believe they delete them. Looking at my account on Clashofstats it shows that I was in a clan when I first started but there is no data for that clan. When I try entering the clan tag in clash of clans there's no results.

    It's unclear though whether supercell only deletes empty clans, or if it's any inactive clan even if they have members.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix1027 View Post
    I believe they delete them. Looking at my account on Clashofstats it shows that I was in a clan when I first started but there is no data for that clan. When I try entering the clan tag in clash of clans there's no results.

    It's unclear though whether supercell only deletes empty clans, or if it's any inactive clan even if they have members.
    Thank you and others for helpful insight. I had the experience once where I was made leader of a clan and all actives left me with a bunch of inactive accounts. After I kicked the inactive accounts, I left the clan. Before leaving, I received a notification that the clan would be closed or deleted. So it appears clashers can delete clans when they are the last one out of the door. But not clear that Supercell deletes clans. Thanks.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deafkate View Post
    Sorry that you are confused. This is long to try and explain.

    1. There is no stealing from anyone because nobody except Supercell owns the clans. Check the terms. Otherwise, Supercell would be wasting its time trying to return clan leadership to people who lost it. So, no, not stealing.

    2. I have not confirmed this myself, but others who have participated in this discussion and who I find credible have informed me that there is an ongoing problem with scammers selling clans on black market websites. Scammers are placing a value on it and uninformed, gullible clashers are paying for it. Therefore, yes, there is a value in used clans.

    3. Under the current system, if you start a clan, promote a bunch of coleaders, level up to level 10, and get a great clan wars winning percentage, and then you have to quit, you have two choices. You can hand over the leader role to a trusted coleader and hope things go well until you return. And you are no longer the leader. Or you go AWOL. After 90 days of inactivity, your account is demoted to member and the next coleader is promoted to leader. And you are no longer the leader.
    In my proposal, one year after the last coleader is promoted to leader and is inactive for 90 days does the “claim leader role” button appear. By this time there is little left of your hard work except a high level clan with a cool name. Why not let a reasonably active clasher pick up the banner for the clan. Years later, if you log on to your account and wonder what happened to your clan, under the current system, you will find yourself as the last member in the clan with an inactive leader. Under my proposal, you may find a button to claim the leadership role back or you may find a vibrant clan with a new leader and members, both of which I think are better options.

    4. You say let dead clans die. But why not use the inventory of dead clans to flood the market for clans that seems to exist? Black markets are eliminated by removing the restrictions that created them in the first place.

    5. With everything in Clash of Clans, it takes time or you can pay to rush it. You can wait for your heroes to upgrade or you pay for the hero book. You can wait to collect the resources or you buy them. Why not add a choice to start your very own clan at level 1 for 40000 gold or resurrect a clan (that you cannot change the name of because it is not new) for some more gold/elixir depending upon the level?

    6. Currently, Supercell is restricting the transfer of clans, which it owns, and the result is clashers are getting scammed in black market websites. Supercell needs to find a way to fairly lift the restrictions so that the black market is no longer worthwhile. And they could get clashers to spend more resources.
    With point 4, I finally see your point. However, with that in mind, I still think this is not a good idea.

    It's not healthy for the game. I don't think this wouldn't help things anyway; people would snatch up as many clans as possible, and what ends up happening is the majority of them are owned by people with ill-intent. Eventually there are no longer any clans to steal, or they are extremely difficult to find. Now they've cornered the market, and they can sell the clans at exorbitant prices.

    The other issue is that leadership is being transferred from the clan's trusted circle of accounts to a random person without their consent and knowledge. he game discourages you from coming back because the clan you and your clan mates worked so hard to build up was stolen by someone else in seconds. How would that make you feel? The social aspect of the game i.e. clans is what has kept the game alive for so many years. This idea butchers them entirely. It also defeats the entire purpose of clan xp and perks.

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