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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Spring 2021 Update Sneak Peek #0 - Clan Castle Donation Changes

  1. #621
    Forum Veteran SumoSloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NizaZiza View Post
    You got multiple answers already. Everyone knows this happens. Probably everyone here at least once was in "unfair" or really unfair situation.

    So ask yourself. Is your th9 teammate number 7. or higher[1.-6.] (upper half of roster)? No. So your example is even more irrelevant since outcome of the wars in 99.99% of the cases depends on the strongest bases.

    You want matchmaking to match by number/ to individualy match weight of each th in the roster? If yes, that would ruin game for everyone making matchmaking process "infinitely" long.
    That's not what the poster you quoted is saying. They recognize that mismatches happen, what they are saying is that with the change in what is allowed in the cc is exacerbates the disparity. Regardless of whether top attacks will normally cover or not, the changes have made this war completely useless from the perspective of the lower bases. On that point I agree with them.
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  2.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #622
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thesuperbeast View Post
    Right so. By your logic.

    Team 1. Team 2.
    1. Th14. Th.14
    2. Th14. Th13
    3. Th13. Th13
    4. Th12. Th12
    5. Th12. Th12
    6. Th11. Th12
    7. Th11. Th12
    8. Th9. Th11
    9. Th9. Th11
    10. Th8. Th10

    If the mirror format doesn't do it. Please explain who has matched with who?

    You're more than welcome to join and my clan right now, as this is what's going on?

    Who are 8-10 supposed to attack and have any chance of success with now, without the helped of buffed cc troops?
    Just have a wasted attack at No1 I guess to tell me (No1) what troops are in the cc? Well that sounds like fun for him.
    Itís not my logic, itís how matchmaking works.
    It isnít a question of who matched who. Thatís not how it works..
    its the sum of 15 bases matching the sum of 15 bases. A clan matches a clan.
    I also thought you said this was a 15v war so what happened to the bottom 5 here ? but thatís really not all that important.
    Even just looking at the TH line up it doesnít give me any insight as to the ďfairnessĒ of this match.

    You have 2 attacks each at your disposal. The first 5 can cover all 10 bases. The bottom bases can make themselves useful with a scout attack or learn and practice some war basics they need when later on. Either way a TH8 shouldnít be able to attack a half decent TH11 and if overpowered CC troops make this possible (which it did) then thatís a problem.

    Look at the bigger picture here, in the grand scheme of things youíre screaming about a horrible mismatch but keep in mind just as some wars will be difficult in some cases the odds will be in your favor. Win some, lose some. Itís no big deal.
    In the end itís the losses that can actually make you stronger because you might learn a thing or 2 from them.
    As said before if youíre running that big a difference in town hall levels in a 10 size war youíre bound to get these situations as thereís just way too few clans exactly alike. Or you need to accept search times which run forever and might never match.

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  3. #623
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumoSloth View Post
    That's not what the poster you quoted is saying. They recognize that mismatches happen, what they are saying is that with the change in what is allowed in the cc is exacerbates the disparity. Regardless of whether top attacks will normally cover or not, the changes have made this war completely useless from the perspective of the lower bases. On that point I agree with them.
    I agree with that too. I already said many posts ago how it will negatively affect my clan (we have th9s included in CWL roster).

    However, all I did is pointed out irrelevance of this in overall result of the regular war. If this does not actually impact war result, using this as argument to say CC nerf was bad makes no sense.

    Example: {If player(in lower half of roster) goes for hit-up,which is a thing I did often on purpose in my clan for a long, he has to go for 3*. They probably never did that, their lower th did 1*/2* loot attack and you do not need op CC for that. As for defending dip attack...what a joke...who defends th11v9 dip attack? In cwl my max th10 with anti edrag base defended 3* 50% of th11 dips, but 0% of th12 edrag dips.}
    Last edited by NizaZiza; 3 Weeks Ago at 05:32 PM.

  4. #624
    Millennial Club Rizzob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thesuperbeast View Post
    Right so. By your logic.

    Team 1. Team 2.
    1. Th14. Th.14
    2. Th14. Th13
    3. Th13. Th13
    4. Th12. Th12
    5. Th12. Th12
    6. Th11. Th12
    7. Th11. Th12
    8. Th9. Th11
    9. Th9. Th11
    10. Th8. Th10

    If the mirror format doesn't do it. Please explain who has matched with who?

    You're more than welcome to join and my clan right now, as this is what's going on?

    Who are 8-10 supposed to attack and have any chance of success with now, without the helped of buffed cc troops?
    Just have a wasted attack at No1 I guess to tell me (No1) what troops are in the cc? Well that sounds like fun for him.
    Here's the thing, this tells us very little. Are these bases maxed, rushed, hyperrushed? What level heroes do they have?

    You've oversimplified war matchups to mirrors, and if you want to look only at the TH levels and then admit defeat, then that's your right I suppose. Not a clan I'd want to be in.

    But if you actually want to compete, compete as a team 10v10 rather than 10 1v1 matchups. Start from the bottom up. Hit their TH10 with your lowest 11, for example. Use your bottom three for scout attacks on the 12s, trying to draw CCs and looking for traps at the entry points.

    If your bottom bases don't want to help with the war, get rid of them and find others that do. Or help them advance with CWL medal bonuses and encourage them to raid/upgrade/repeat non-stop so they can help more. Or start a feeder clan with lower level alts you can move them into and war with them there.

  5. #625
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzob View Post
    Here's the thing, this tells us very little. Are these bases maxed, rushed, hyperrushed? What level heroes do they have?

    You've oversimplified war matchups to mirrors, and if you want to look only at the TH levels and then admit defeat, then that's your right I suppose. Not a clan I'd want to be in.

    But if you actually want to compete, compete as a team 10v10 rather than 10 1v1 matchups. Start from the bottom up. Hit their TH10 with your lowest 11, for example. Use your bottom three for scout attacks on the 12s, trying to draw CCs and looking for traps at the entry points.

    If your bottom bases don't want to help with the war, get rid of them and find others that do. Or help them advance with CWL medal bonuses and encourage them to raid/upgrade/repeat non-stop so they can help more. Or start a feeder clan with lower level alts you can move them into and war with them there.
    I know how to win it. We have done.

    I took the top two, no2 did 3 and 4 and so on.

    But again some serious short sightedness here.
    Where is the enjoyment aspect for the this th9 in this case?
    Why even bother? It's alright for the L33ts and wannabe champs and heroes out there, but this supposed helping hand to newer and lower th players has put one immovable obstacle in the way whilst sucking any sort of enjoyment out of the game.
    So they have the choices of.
    1. Not playing in wars.
    2. Just losing both defence and offence.
    3. Rush to th12, get giga tesla and siege and roll other rushed bases.
    4. Chuck loads of money at the game.
    5. Give up.
    6. All in some sort of order ending at 5.

    So team leaders, please give it a rest with your rhetoric and telling me I don't know how to war, manage clans and whatever.
    There is a clear issue here and this cc change has only made it worse. Rushed bases or not a th9 can't take on a th11that has infernos built and super minions in the cc. Unless they get some sort of helping hand (or fix the matchmaking).

    As for getting rid of them...
    I'm guessing you've not seen the issues with clan recruitment in this game then? Or how about some of us just aren't bad leaders by banning people for not no lifeing the game, everyone should get a fair shot at least. If not, then SC may as well do away with ths1-10 and save everyone the boring monotony of farming endlessly just to be able to partake in wars.
    Last edited by Thesuperbeast; 3 Weeks Ago at 05:58 PM.

  6. #626
    Forum Veteran SumoSloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizzob View Post
    Here's the thing, this tells us very little. Are these bases maxed, rushed, hyperrushed? What level heroes do they have?

    You've oversimplified war matchups to mirrors, and if you want to look only at the TH levels and then admit defeat, then that's your right I suppose. Not a clan I'd want to be in.

    But if you actually want to compete, compete as a team 10v10 rather than 10 1v1 matchups. Start from the bottom up. Hit their TH10 with your lowest 11, for example. Use your bottom three for scout attacks on the 12s, trying to draw CCs and looking for traps at the entry points.

    If your bottom bases don't want to help with the war, get rid of them and find others that do. Or help them advance with CWL medal bonuses and encourage them to raid/upgrade/repeat non-stop so they can help more. Or start a feeder clan with lower level alts you can move them into and war with them there.
    Previously before the update, I would agree with you. However, now that the update has happened, even rushed bases which are higher th level have a significant advantage due to the access to cc troops. So, unfortunately this actually tells us a lot more now than it used to.

    The poster has never said they don't know how to deal with this. The point is, it creates a larger gap between ths which inevitably due to the way the mm matches clans makes the wars more meaningless now for lower ths. Which is the opposite of what is commonly called the intention of this change. Before the update stronger ccs could potentially make up the difference for lower ths who are facing rushed bases. Now this is much less so, if nothing else because the higher bases can have super minions which can devastate a lower th attack. Without an equivalent cc to match it the attacks are hopeless and pointless for these lower ths.

    To be clear the poster has not complained about the matchups and is not complaining about the matchmaker, but rather explaining how these inevitable matchups have created the opposite of the intended effect with the cc change.
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  7. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thesuperbeast View Post
    But again some serious short sightedness here.
    You talk about others' short-sightedness yet you ignore how op CC destroyed balance in th9 and lower. All those ths were completely pointless. Why have th5 if th2 can 3* it. I have th9 mini and I am glad that I won't see my base 3* like it is piece of cake because someone has lvl9 balloons. Anf NO my defense won't suffer a lot because of weaker def CC I am 100% sure of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thesuperbeast View Post
    Where is the enjoyment aspect for the this th9 in this case?
    It is your job as leader to find it and not lazily rely for the game to serve on silver plate for every single thing. In my clan no th9 complain since attacking up gives easy solid loot. If they want to be relevant, they can run war without th11+ in roster or we all run wars with 20+ players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesuperbeast View Post
    1. Not playing in wars.
    2. Just losing both defence and offence.
    3. Rush to th12, get giga tesla and siege and roll other rushed bases.
    4. Chuck loads of money at the game.
    5. Give up.
    6. All in some sort of order ending at 5.
    1. Not necessarily.
    2. 1* is too easy to get, in +1 hit-up anything lower than 2* 60% is badly executednattack. Defence is irrelevant in dip.
    3. As stated above, no need to.
    4. Absolutely no need to, th10 is too easy to reach and that is already where you have access to practically max CC.
    5. People will always give, if someone gives up bcz of CC nerf he never intended to play probably or you misrepresentated this changes to your clan to get people to riot (I did this first day of CC neff when I was angry haha)
    6. No

    Quote Originally Posted by Thesuperbeast View Post
    As for getting rid of them...
    I'm guessing you've not seen the issues with clan recruitment in this game then? Or how about some of us just aren't bad leaders by banning people for not no lifeing the game, everyone should get a fair shot at least.
    There are legitimate problems with this CC nerf and people like you switch to completely different topics or to something that is rarely relevant (like mismatch in lower half). However, even those legitimate problems like hit-up in CWL are irrelevant as they only really impact th9 (which has already been rarely included in roster, before CC nerf even th10 was avoided)
    Last edited by NizaZiza; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:34 PM.

  8. #628
    Forum Veteran SumoSloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NizaZiza View Post

    Example: {If player(in lower half of roster) goes for hit-up,which is a thing I did often on purpose in my clan for a long, he has to go for 3*. They probably never did that, their lower th did 1*/2* loot attack and you do not need op CC for that. As for defending dip attack...what a joke...who defends th11v9 dip attack? In cwl my max th10 with anti edrag base defended 3* 50% of th11 dips, but 0% of th12 edrag dips.}
    If they are super rushed which is likely the case in this situation defending a dip attack with an equivalent cc is entirely a possibility, I've seen it happen. However, now that there is a huge disparity in the cc troops available, the chances of that happening is reduced to virtually nil. CC troops could be the great equalizer if one base maxed for its level matched up against a significantly rushed based. Now that is no longer the case.

    What it's done is further promoted rushing as the style that creates more of an advantage.
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  9. #629
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumoSloth View Post
    If they are super rushed which is likely the case in this situation defending a dip attack with an equivalent cc is entirely a possibility, I've seen it happen. However, now that there is a huge disparity in the cc troops available, the chances of that happening is reduced to virtually nil. CC troops could be the great equalizer if one base maxed for its level matched up against a significantly rushed based. Now that is no longer the case.

    What it's done is further promoted rushing as the style that creates more of an advantage.
    All this talk about big difference... like I hear politicians.
    That is only on paper, reality is going to be quite different. Effects might not be visible in 1 out of 100 dip attacks. E.g. my th10 is still going to defend th11 dips regularly, lvl8 vs lvl7 dragon,-1lvl edrag, HH or lava...no significant difference.

    As for further promoting rushing. Quite doubtful, some people will be more inclined to stay same th when they see same th fail them more often(lower ths have become more viable). Some who want advantage will rush as they always did, whether that will increase or not...who knows.

    Edit: I also have th2 and I see positive effects already on lower halls. People now deal with cc morw often then straight up giving up when they see max baby dragon or valk.
    Last edited by NizaZiza; 3 Weeks Ago at 06:46 PM.

  10.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #630
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    Alright..letís stop making this personal and keep to the discussion.

    This thread is pretty close to running its course....

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