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  1. #11
    Millennial Club BostonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meonhoc View Post
    I don't quite agree, BostonGirl. (about the Wheel is no longer random)

    What you observed is true, but the conclusion that is no more random is not straightforward in my opinion.

    Before, we can fairly tell that the prize is randomized after when the wheel was spun. However, as you stated, it has a potential to be exploited. Now, it seems to me that the randomization occurs before wheel spinning, thus preventing the above exploit (and this kind of change also fix similar exploit in other places of the game hat I won't mention here)

    If the algorithme to randomize rewards stay the same, then what's the issue whether when the reward is chose (before of after spinning), it is still random, right? The only thing I think we can "complain" about is the chance to land on some permit or puzzle piece when they are offered.
    Ha! I fully take your point. I never thought of it that way. Itís kind of brilliant when you think about it.

    That said: Can we argue ďdegree of randomisationĒ then? Are all possible spins of the Wheel up to 100 spins, for example, randomised before my very first spin? (I think most likely) Or does the randomisation take place before every spin? I donít see how thatís possible because while the conclusion of my first spin could trigger the setting of the next spin and so on, what triggers the first spin?

    Anyway, this is my thought. If the algorithm is only employed once then the randomisation is considerably reduced. If the algorithm is employed every time I spin, then the choices are necessarily more randomised.

    Think of it like a lottery. If the lottery girl spins the balls once and then pulls out all the numbers, the chances differ from if, as she does, she spins the ball before every number is drawn. It might be plausibly argued that the second method is more random because of the increased shifting caused by the increased number of spins.

    Is this true or just perception? Iím sure some very smart scientist would be able to tell me after spending millions of dollars on a controlled experiment. Hundreds of people pulling thousands (millions?) of coloured balls using both methods and a big ball that is never spun. Until then, I sit here and I wonder.

  2.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #12
    Kaptain Kat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnM1966 View Post
    Define close. My neighbour still needs to clear 5 spaces so needs about 90 permits. Contrast that to myself where I am down to 3 spots and 51 permits and in the lucky bonus I got permits in the third round every time.

    Regardless we are getting tired of the game as itís just the same stuff every time just about. The valley was a good addition and the perk pass is ok but just adding more products, special land spots and sanctuary animals is getting redundant. Will everyone be so shocked at baby gorillas in next update?!?
    Hereís the thing. When I say close I mean the number of permits they still need to obtain. So just looking at a farm and seeing how many plots they still need isnít the best indicator. For example it may look like they still need a lot of permits but they might also have a lot of permits stored in their account waiting to be used. Personally I have about 40ish permits yet to be used and still a lot of land to unlock so I could unlock quite a few spots yet with what I have. Of course it stands to reason that most players unlock land as they can and will not have extra permits stored. Anywho I do think it needed to be addressed for clarification purposes.

    So what I mean with close is that a player roughly only needs to obtain around 8 or less permits (or puzzle pieces) to finish. 90 or 51 permits needed is definitely not close in the sense I meant earlier. As said I was just wondering.

    If you have been playing a game for years and years then sure there will be times it will feel less exciting. Iíve had these times myself and times I played less and then times I picked it up again and played more. Thatís only normal and some will even quit completely and move on. I also donít enjoy every aspect of the game equally. In fact there are a few I donít enjoy as much either or think improvements can be made to have more enjoyment.


    As for the WoF feature. Honestly speaking as a player itís a feature that never bothered me much at all. Therefore I never paid attention to its workings exactly. I just look at it as a thing that is something to do, keeps me busy a few seconds and sometimes I get a nice prize and sometimes I donít. I do refuse to spend diamonds on extra spins no matter whatís on there. Iím not in a hurry to collect permits and pieces, they will come when they do. This game definitely taught me patience.
    On average I am usually not very lucky with the WoF anyway. I never catch the things that are on the event. I rarely spin good things. I still remember the first gnomes being added to the game (for a long time we only had the boy and girl gnome) and you could win them. Everyone had gnomes and it took me forever to get one. Never have I been able to spin the jackpot until recently when the first farm Pass had the extra spin in the free prizes.

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  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by BostonGirl View Post
    Ha! I fully take your point. I never thought of it that way. It’s kind of brilliant when you think about it.

    That said: Can we argue “degree of randomisation” then? Are all possible spins of the Wheel up to 100 spins, for example, randomised before my very first spin? (I think most likely) Or does the randomisation take place before every spin? I don’t see how that’s possible because while the conclusion of my first spin could trigger the setting of the next spin and so on, what triggers the first spin?

    Anyway, this is my thought. If the algorithm is only employed once then the randomisation is considerably reduced. If the algorithm is employed every time I spin, then the choices are necessarily more randomised.

    Think of it like a lottery. If the lottery girl spins the balls once and then pulls out all the numbers, the chances differ from if, as she does, she spins the ball before every number is drawn. It might be plausibly argued that the second method is more random because of the increased shifting caused by the increased number of spins.

    Is this true or just perception? I’m sure some very smart scientist would be able to tell me after spending millions of dollars on a controlled experiment. Hundreds of people pulling thousands (millions?) of coloured balls using both methods and a big ball that is never spun. Until then, I sit here and I wonder.

    I would first like to say that probabilistic is quite demanding area of expertise and random numbers (in computer science) is not a trivial thing either so take this with a grain of salt, I'm not an expert on either of those.

    But.. most (if not all) random numbers in computer science are generated with algorithms, meaning that they are not truly random. They are pseudorandom. With a given seed, algorithm gives a sequence of numbers, that are randomly distributed but the sequence is repeatable and deterministic with that particular seed number. Generating seed numbers require a good source of entropy from real world and is not a trivial thing neither. Taking N numbers from a same pseudorandom number generator has as much of randomness as taking the first number of N differend generator, given that the source of entropy is the same and generator algorithm is valid.

    About your lottery example, source of entropy is the same. It doesn't really matter how many times you spin it or if you change the girl between every spin if the original process is valid.

    As a anecdote, humans are generally poor to generate randomn numbers and also observing randomness. People tend to think that process is well randomized if same number (or event) do not repeat themselves. When in truly random process like flipping the coin, you should get quite long sequences of consecutive heads or tails every now and then.

    I don't know how randomness in hay day is implemented. But if and when it's using pseudo random number generator with well chosen seed, it doesn't make it less valid even if the sequence is repeatable and deterministic.
    Last edited by zetis; February 26th, 2021 at 07:07 PM.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by MarySC View Post
    Me either! My only ďgambleĒ is reshuffling the horseshoe prizes... but only sometimes! Iím a diamond hoarder.
    I reshuffled the Derby horseshoe prizes once and got a worse selection; I've decided to just take what comes up. I'm a diamond hoarder as well--no shame.

  5. #15
    Millennial Club BostonGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zetis View Post
    ...I don't know how randomness in hay day is implemented. But if and when it's using pseudo random number generator with well chosen seed, it doesn't make it less valid even if the sequence is repeatable and deterministic.
    Long story short - Meo is right, Iím wrong, the HayDay algorithm and method are probably just fine and all is right with the world. Fine! Seriously, thanks for taking the time. Itís always cool to learn something new.

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