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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Skill vs spam

  1. #11
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    The double quad EQ + some combo with witches always worked to some degree -- which is very close to the super wiz combo. IMO the reason for recent popularity of mass armies is solely the super minion CC that makes AQ charge so risky that anyone is looking for alternatives (to hybrid for example)

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteWalkerr View Post
    The double quad EQ + some combo with witches always worked to some degree -- which is very close to the super wiz combo. IMO the reason for recent popularity of mass armies is solely the super minion CC that makes AQ charge so risky that anyone is looking for alternatives (to hybrid for example)
    Its a great time to use hybrid, all the nice spread out bases... 👍

  3. #13
    I checked the defense log on two of my legends accounts. In the last 60 defenses, the mass superwiz attack was used 20 times with a three star twice out of those 20.

    Contact SC here. Click here for how trophies are calculated. An idea to improve legends here. I wish max players had a separate loot bank as described here. Caution, I often discuss for the sake of discussion and enjoy having my opinion challenged (or approved of) even when I care little about the actual issue. My balance wish: get rid of tornado trap, make it a decoration.

  4. #14
    Forum Contender joshsgrandad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    I checked the defense log on two of my legends accounts. In the last 60 defenses, the mass superwiz attack was used 20 times with a three star twice out of those 20.
    Is it surprising?..
    Like myself, you are a regular in the war sub forum..
    For war, anything below a 3 star is a defense, with only the degree of defensive success being up for debate.

    However, there are those that think any stars yielded by a base is cause for concern..
    And if those stars were obtained by a low skill value strat, then something must surely be wrong with the game.

    It stands to reason to me that anyone whom cracks open a base with quakes, then floods the interior with troops under the protection of warden and remaining spells are going to achieve some level of success..
    There seems to be a pre determined chain of thought attributed to certain "spam strats" that belong more in fantasy land than fact..
    Yeah, some are powerful, and sometimes even deadly in accomplished hands..
    But we are a run of the mill clan, use and defend with these strats, and the game doesnt tend to change at our level, regardless of the latest in thing..
    The only big change I saw was when they upped the camp space to 300.

    As Frederick The Great said, "He who defends everything defends nothing"..
    In other words, sort your base out.. Any strat is only as good as the lay out and attacker make it..

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    Is it surprising?..
    Like myself, you are a regular in the war sub forum..
    For war, anything below a 3 star is a defense, with only the degree of defensive success being up for debate.

    However, there are those that think any stars yielded by a base is cause for concern..
    And if those stars were obtained by a low skill value strat, then something must surely be wrong with the game.

    It stands to reason to me that anyone whom cracks open a base with quakes, then floods the interior with troops under the protection of warden and remaining spells are going to achieve some level of success..
    There seems to be a pre determined chain of thought attributed to certain "spam strats" that belong more in fantasy land than fact..
    Yeah, some are powerful, and sometimes even deadly in accomplished hands..
    But we are a run of the mill clan, use and defend with these strats, and the game doesnt tend to change at our level, regardless of the latest in thing..
    The only big change I saw was when they upped the camp space to 300.

    As Frederick The Great said, "He who defends everything defends nothing"..
    In other words, sort your base out.. Any strat is only as good as the lay out and attacker make it..
    I think you and others have described the real issue.

    An attacker can choose a more “skilled attack” which has a stronger likelihood of a triple but has an equally stronger likelihood of a one star. Alternatively, an attacker can choose a “lesser skilled attack” that has a very small likelihood of a triple and an equally small likelihood of a one star but a very strong likelihood of a double - a “safe attack”.

    The rub seems to me to come from the less risk averse attacker seeing their more difficult attack being no better in overall outcome over time than the attacks of those who are more risk averse. For some, they believe risk SHOULD equal reward and when it doesnt, it chafes, hence the outrage over spam attacks and the call for torches and pitchforks. Couple that with the misguided belief that only a zero star or a single star equals a failed attack and the irritation with safe attacks begins.

    Human nature being what it is, I can’t see the vitriol over spam attacking ending anytime soon.
    Last edited by Tosti111; January 23rd, 2021 at 06:36 PM.
    OP Defense: Any defense the poster doesn’t like or know how to work around, nullifies their attack or denies them their rightful three star.

  6. #16
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    Simple attacks certainly appear to be stronger than they used to be in the past.

    That is due to the game balance being so far on the offensive side, it is no longer required to do very complicated high risk high reward attacks in order to 3 star. You'll find a simple plan on any base with a high chance of success if execution is solid.

    You might find other more complicated plans, that maybe end up being the bigger overkill, but the result is still the same. Only that there is much more potential for errors.

    So why chose the complicated attack? For most players that's just unneccesary risk. And there's no extra reward to balance it out. There are no style points or a 4th star.
    That's why even pros often do attacks that look just like simple spam.

    It was much different at th12 or before that. Tripling was hard and you had to think out of the box and exploit the bases' weaknesses, to come up with a plan. The risk was certainly worth it if your goal was getting 3 stars.

    So in some way I agree with the op. Spam feels stronger right now.
    Last edited by Lorenz98; January 24th, 2021 at 01:01 AM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorenz98 View Post
    Simple attacks certainly appear to be stronger than they used to be in the past.

    That is due to the game balance being so far on the offensive side, it is no longer required to do very complicated high risk high reward attacks in order to 3 star. You'll find a simple plan on any base with a high chance of success if execution is solid.

    You might find other more complicated plans, that maybe end up being the bigger overkill, but the result is still the same. Only that there is much more potential for errors.

    So why chose the complicated attack? For most players that's just unneccesary risk. And there's no extra reward to balance it out. There are no style points or a 4th star.
    That's why even pros often do attacks that look just like simple spam.

    It was much different at th12 or before that. Tripling was hard and you had to think out of the box and exploit the bases' weaknesses, to come up with a plan. The risk was certainly worth it if your goal was getting 3 stars.

    So in some way I agree with the op. Spam feels stronger right now.
    Oddly i disagree about th12. I'm still using a pekkabobat variant that I used on my main when 12 was top. I could switch to dragbat and do the same. I had more 3 star war success at max 12 than 13. Regardless, so called simple spam are not so simple for getting the three. I'm using one of itzu's super powerful spam attacks. So easy to three star. Yeah...
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  8. #18
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    Can’t remember a time when someone wasn’t complaining about ‘spam’ attacks. Do think attacking in general is much easier since the advent of th11. Has certainly been much easier to 2 star a th above one’s level since then. Is definitely easy enough to 2 star a 13 as a 12 now. But does it make the game less fun? Certainly doesn’t for me. I’ll take the current state over the old th10 max days from now till eternity. Was a reason there were so many perma 9s in those days, and glad the game’s evolved.

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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    For war, anything below a 3 star is a defense, with only the degree of defensive success being up for debate.
    This is not true for the average player. My clan is in master 1 in CWL. For us one star is a defense or a fail. And they happen for us and our opponents regularly like once a war. Two stars with good percentage is success. Three stars is something we strive for but not expect and we do not think anything less as a fail. We do get 1-3 three stars per war in CWL but ften against non max th13 bases and we know none of us can do it consistently so there is a lot of luck involded. Troops just path right. Mass attacks have lifted the ”troops just path right” chance so we use them.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbolg View Post
    This is not true for the average player. My clan is in master 1 in CWL. For us one star is a defense or a fail. And they happen for us and our opponents regularly like once a war. Two stars with good percentage is success. Three stars is something we strive for but not expect and we do not think anything less as a fail. We do get 1-3 three stars per war in CWL but ften against non max th13 bases and we know none of us can do it consistently so there is a lot of luck involded. Troops just path right. Mass attacks have lifted the ”troops just path right” chance so we use them.
    But that is because you have chosen CWL as your war preference..
    For our clan, we still prefer striving for a green war log, and treat cwl as a growth tool.

    So player choice is the difference, and probably clan structure and membership..
    We have neither the weight nor the ability in depth to try and push cwl, so start the week all in dependent on account size, then replace no shows on a day to day basis..
    And regular war is all about 3 star raids in our book, which is a bottom up meta for optimum results in mixed hall.

    Therein lies the difference.
    i do fully agree with the mass attack mentality BTW.

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