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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: super troops balance

  1. #1
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    super troops balance

    I feel that since you can only have two super active, the balance of stroops is very impt.

    I think SC needs to ask which is the most popular Stroop and nerf it or buff the least used troop, depending on whether they want to buff offsense or defense

    Before the recent balance changes, I don't think swiz was the most popular one... swb is probably more popular.

    So why did they nerf swiz but not swb?

    They need to buff sarch more than a +2%. They need to nerf the swb slightly to make it less op in breaking wall. I mean they have the stats and they should tweak the stroops as there are some pretty big imbalance there.

  2. #2
    Forum Legend Piper139's Avatar
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    Amazing insight. I'm sure supercel made the latest change based on forum posts and clash is broken youtube videos not data analytics.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Alextzh View Post
    I feel that since you can only have two super active, the balance of stroops is very impt.

    I think SC needs to ask which is the most popular Stroop and nerf it or buff the least used troop, depending on whether they want to buff offsense or defense

    Before the recent balance changes, I don't think swiz was the most popular one... swb is probably more popular.

    So why did they nerf swiz but not swb?

    They need to buff sarch more than a +2%. They need to nerf the swb slightly to make it less op in breaking wall. I mean they have the stats and they should tweak the stroops as there are some pretty big imbalance there.
    I agree SC should look at troop use as one of the factors. I also agree if they find a troop is very popular that does not mean it is OP. It might mean other troops need a buff. Use rates can only be one factor, though.

    Superbreakers, for example, aren't used in mass and aren't really at risk of being too powerful (unless of course they were breaking multiple sets of walls like 4 quakes or something like that). The nice thing about superbreakers is the good players get pretty much the same benefit from regular breakers (not quite the same, they still prefer superbreakers as they are safer even for the really good players). The superbreakers helped the average players more. Anyway, since they are just a small part of an overall attack, I don't think the fact they are very popular is evidence of the need for a nerf. They'd be useless if they didn't break the wall. They currently break the wall. What balance change would be needed?

    I'd say hunters are of a similar category. Though I did see a crazy mass hunter attack on youtube, in general they are used just one or two at a time as a specialist type troop. They could even be stronger and it wouldn't likely make much of a difference on offense (it wouldn't be so great on defense).

    With superarchers I agree the buff seems small. I've heard some people discuss them surviving an extra shot from defenses, giving them time to destroy that defense. That might make a big difference, but we'll have to see. It seems small to me, but I'm no superarcher expert, that is for sure.

    The superbarbs seem to be used mostly for farming. Maybe SC is ok with that? They aren't used much in war, but are popular for other things. Supergobs are also very popular in farming. For war there are attacks where they are very helpful, especially for th10 or th11 hitting up on enemy th13s, or anyone with an outside hall. They also are sometimes good for a funnel, but not all that common for th13 war players to use as one of their two slots. Again, though, if they have their use in those other ways, maybe SC is fine with that.

    Contact SC here. Click here for how trophies are calculated. Click here to see how war map placement of max halls is determined. An idea to improve legends here. I wish max players had a separate loot bank as described here. Caution, I often discuss for the sake of discussion and enjoy having my opinion challenged (or approved of) even when I care little about the actual issue. My balance wish: get rid of tornado trap, make it a decoration.

  4. #4
    I guess YouTubers aren't making enough videos on how some super troops are nearly of no use and so they're being ignored.

  5. #5
    Forum Veteran Ullaspn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alextzh View Post
    I feel that since you can only have two super active, the balance of stroops is very impt.

    I think SC needs to ask which is the most popular Stroop and nerf it or buff the least used troop, depending on whether they want to buff offsense or defense

    Before the recent balance changes, I don't think swiz was the most popular one... swb is probably more popular.

    So why did they nerf swiz but not swb?

    They need to buff sarch more than a +2%. They need to nerf the swb slightly to make it less op in breaking wall. I mean they have the stats and they should tweak the stroops as there are some pretty big imbalance there.
    If formumers have forgotten ,super wall breakers got a nerf to their damage tiles which was reduced from 2 to 1.5.
    Coc team doesn't look like they nerf a troop on its usage rate rather than on its win rate.
    Don't be surprised that super wizard will remain in the meta even after the nerf as they will not wipe out 40 percent of the base but will wipe out 20 percent which ideal what a blimp should achieve.
    Last edited by Ullaspn; January 16th, 2021 at 05:56 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    I agree SC should look at troop use as one of the factors. I also agree if they find a troop is very popular that does not mean it is OP. It might mean other troops need a buff. Use rates can only be one factor, though.
    May I remind you of the cannon cart nerf that SC did way back when BH7 (I think it was then) was the highest BH: SC's logical reasoning for nerfing cannon carts was because players (and I quote) "were only using cannon carts" in their attacks. I.E. Cannon carts were too popular so they nerfed them.

    Also, it was argued by many players that people were not "only" using cannon carts, but that cannon carts were used along with other troops.

    As to the OP's point: swbs were not nerfed probably because they are used so sparingly. Most attackers only bring 1-2 per attack. SWBs only take up 8 housing space, so that's 8 or 16 housing space and max camp space at th 13 is 300, so very little army space is being used.
    Whereas with s-wizards, players that use them are bringing 10 or more per attack, so they are an integral part of a player's army. Add in the fact that the s-wiz + blimp + invisibility spell combo can take out a decent chunk of a base, and a case can be made for super wizards being too powerful or maybe even overpowered.
    Last edited by joemann8478; January 16th, 2021 at 07:32 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Alextzh View Post
    I feel that since you can only have two super active, the balance of stroops is very impt.

    I think SC needs to ask which is the most popular Stroop and nerf it or buff the least used troop, depending on whether they want to buff offsense or defense

    Before the recent balance changes, I don't think swiz was the most popular one... swb is probably more popular.

    So why did they nerf swiz but not swb?

    They need to buff sarch more than a +2%. They need to nerf the swb slightly to make it less op in breaking wall. I mean they have the stats and they should tweak the stroops as there are some pretty big imbalance there.
    Why do you want to nerf anything that has a very niche use in-game? You should remember that many casual players faced difficulties when using normal wb, you guys already got sw nerfed, don't try to take away fun from those guys who are using swb by nerfing them too.
    Last edited by ESCANOR0803; January 16th, 2021 at 09:55 AM.

  8. #8
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    Popularity shouldn't be the main factor for balance changes. You wouldn't want to nerf the rage spell because it's the most popular spell either, right? The SWbs serve the purpose to open walls and there aren't many alternatives for that, so they are a neccessity in a lot of attacks. A nerf wouldn't change their popularity, just makes attacking more frustrating.

    It's more important how a specific troop/strategy performs compared to other troops/strategies. The Super Wizards are too powerful imo, because they basically replaced Bowlers in smash like attacks as they are more efficient. And the Blizzard is way more powerful than the similar Electrone, with the same cost. So powerful that - if the blimp was successful - the rest of the attack is just a formality. You really can't compare that with Super Wallbreakers.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by joemann8478 View Post
    May I remind you of the cannon cart nerf that SC did way back when BH7 (I think it was then) was the highest BH: SC's logical reasoning for nerfing cannon carts was because players (and I quote) "were only using cannon carts" in their attacks. I.E. Cannon carts were too popular so they nerfed them.

    Also, it was argued by many players that people were not "only" using cannon carts, but that cannon carts were used along with other troops.

    As to the OP's point: swbs were not nerfed probably because they are used so sparingly. Most attackers only bring 1-2 per attack. SWBs only take up 8 housing space, so that's 8 or 16 housing space and max camp space at th 13 is 300, so very little army space is being used.
    Whereas with s-wizards, players that use them are bringing 10 or more per attack, so they are an integral part of a player's army. Add in the fact that the s-wiz + blimp + invisibility spell combo can take out a decent chunk of a base, and a case can be made for super wizards being too powerful or maybe even overpowered.
    Yes I recall times in the past where statements from SC suggested they changed a troop because of use rates and further recall saying myself at that time that use rates aren’t a good reason, alone, to nerf a troop.

    Contact SC here. Click here for how trophies are calculated. Click here to see how war map placement of max halls is determined. An idea to improve legends here. I wish max players had a separate loot bank as described here. Caution, I often discuss for the sake of discussion and enjoy having my opinion challenged (or approved of) even when I care little about the actual issue. My balance wish: get rid of tornado trap, make it a decoration.

  10. #10
    Millennial Club Night Crawler's Avatar
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    introducing super troops was a mistake imo, they have thrown what was slightly balanced in the game right out the window, you think by nerfing the superwiz that it solves all the problems? it doesn’t, it doesn’t bring other OG troops back into play at all, it doesn’t fix the AI problems of the game, it doesn’t address the fact that super minions on defence are ridiculously strong, all it does is nerf what was exposed as being too strong
    come summer TH14 will come out and the great grind of 2021 will begin and the intricate problems of the game will be put on the back burner
    bottom line, the game is still, and will not be, properly balanced

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