Spent convictions?

[Imjustaboutokinwar]

In the British justice system, there is a thing called "spent convictions". If you are cautioned (i.e. not convicted, but might be if you go to trial if you don't accept the caution). After a while, the record is expunged.

There are many forumers who have been here for many years. I know quite a few of them. Some of them have, inadvertently or perhaps pushing the envelope, had too many infractions and been banned.

But, if you consider a forumer who has had 5 infractions over 5 years (and who has been valuable to the community), vs one who has had 5 in a much shorter space of time, I would like to suggest that perhaps it might be time to consider expunging the old "convictions", rather than banning.

This is just a thought. But perhaps one that should be considered so that the forums are a healthy and vibrant place to be.

Thoughts?

[Ajax]

For several years now we have been open to reversing old infractions on request, if the member hasn't had any further ones in the meantime.

We would never do this less than a year after the last infraction, and it is always discretionary. Some people are continually skirting the edges of acceptable behaviour, and we would be unlikely to reverse infractions for them.

We do still occasionally end up banning people who have accumulated 5 infractions over a period of years, but not very often. Most of those who get banned for 5 infractions have accumulated them in less than a year.

[LynnK2015]

...This is just a thought. But perhaps one that should be considered so that the forums are a healthy and vibrant place to be.

Thoughts?

Fascinating. I don't think the forums will be a "healthy and vibrant" place if there's a set of rules for one group of forumites who follow the rules and don't get permanently banned and another set of rules for a group of forumites who broke rules multiple times and earned a permanent ban but get their posting privileges restored because they were "valuable to the community".

Supercell staff and forum moderators are the final arbiter of what's appropriate or inappropriate in the forums. With this in mind, I read the forum rules carefully and make certain that I understand them. If I need clarification, then I'd PM a forum moderator. If I'm warned about my behavior whether publicly within the thread or privately, I'd sit up and make immediate corrections and not wait until my infractions accumulate to the final five. Moreover, I understand that I will be banned permanently for posting a toxic remark or creating multiple accounts to skirt forum rules.

[GaMe ChAnGeR1]

Well, there are forum clans in-game, for those who got banned.

[Imjustaboutokinwar]

For several years now we have been open to reversing old infractions on request, if the member hasn't had any further ones in the meantime.

We would never do this less than a year after the last infraction, and it is always discretionary. Some people are continually skirting the edges of acceptable behaviour, and we would be unlikely to reverse infractions for them.

We do still occasionally end up banning people who have accumulated 5 infractions over a period of years, but not very often. Most of those who get banned for 5 infractions have accumulated them in less than a year.

Thank you Ajax - didn't know. Very informative and, indeed, very reasonable.

[Imjustaboutokinwar]

Fascinating. I don't think the forums will be a "healthy and vibrant" place if there's a set of rules for one group of forumites who follow the rules and don't get permanently banned and another set of rules for a group of forumites who broke rules multiple times and earned a permanent ban but get their posting privileges restored because they were "valuable to the community".

Supercell staff and forum moderators are the final arbiter of what's appropriate or inappropriate in the forums. With this in mind, I read the forum rules carefully and make certain that I understand them. If I need clarification, then I'd PM a forum moderator. If I'm warned about my behavior whether publicly within the thread or privately, I'd sit up and make immediate corrections and not wait until my infractions accumulate to the final five. Moreover, I understand that I will be banned permanently for posting a toxic remark or creating multiple accounts to skirt forum rules.

Everyone understands about toxicity (open to interpretation, as is objective sometimes, but trust the mods on this one)/multiple accounts. No argument there.

i suppose my point was that if you want to discuss the game (Clash, in my case) with pretty well informed people who have been on the forums for years, do know what they are talking about, historically involve themselves in the forums, then perhaps 5 infractions over 5 years (as an extreme) leading to a ban, is not the same as someone who hits that in a month (or less).

If one wishes to continue talking and making the forums better, then my view is that some leniency/leeway is advisable. I personally know of two people who inadvertently (not malicious, just not thinking), receiving infractions. Ignorance of the the law (or forum rules in this case) is not a defence, but as my main argument states - let the transgression be spent.

Else, I fear, one ends up talking to posters who create an account, never to be seen again. And some of the people who are likely to advise, be helpful, and indeed be fun will not be seen again. That's the risk - personally, I think that isn't optimal for the forums as a vibrant forum for discussion.

My personal view.

[SharkyFinn]

If one wishes to continue talking and making the forums better, then my view is that some leniency/leeway is advisable. I personally know of two people who inadvertently (not malicious, just not thinking), receiving infractions. Ignorance of the the law (or forum rules in this case) is not a defence, but as my main argument states - let the transgression be spent.

I find that it's usually pretty difficult to rack up 5 infractions and receive a permanent ban. Most posters learn after the first one. Some may require two infractions before they start considering what they're written before they hit "post". It's not often that someone accumulates 5 infractions without knowing what they're doing.

As Ajax said, there is opportunity for leniency at several levels. The first comes with the initial handling. Sometimes, we'll just edit or remove a post without issuing any kind of infraction whatsoever. We all have our tolerances for certain things. For example, there are words that are rightfully included in the autocensor that I, personally, don't find to warrant an official response, so I'll often just edit them out. When an official response is judged as needed, we also have another option for leniency by issuing a warning instead of an infraction. Warnings are just that - they're to point out a problem, but they don't contribute to the infraction limits. One particular warning I issued in the past couple of weeks stands out, because the post was definitely in violation of forum rules, but I understood why the poster reacted as he/she did, so I exercised leniency instead.

Even if you do receive an infraction, it doesn't need to be permanent. If you receive an infraction or have received one, consider messaging the issuing moderator to ask for leniency. Ajax outlined some general rules he uses, but it's really up to the issuing moderator how to handle. I know I've certainly reversed infractions in much less time than a year. If it's not too bad, the poster is generally a good member, and they request it to be reconsidered maturely, I'll often ask them to message me again in a couple months to reconsider it and I usually will. Sometimes, I've even reversed it on the spot if the explanation holds up. For me, mature handling is a big component and owning up to a mistake is important. It doesn't have to be a long explanation. A simple "sorry, I was having a bad day and responded poorly" can work wonders. Continuing to argue that a rule-breaking post should be allowed is only going to convince us that a member still doesn't get it and will likely make the same kind of post again. I'd think a member would have an uphill battle with that approach.

I also want to add that aside from the random troll who just wants to stir up problems, we generally don't want to give infractions or ban members. The purpose of the infraction system isn't to punish. It's to give a reminder to do a better job of staying within the rules and to put more effort into getting along with other members. Everyone has their own triggers and there will always be people or topics that set them off. The right thing to do is to avoid those situations, reread and think twice before hitting "post", and exercise some self-control. I've had many occasions where I've written something online or in an email, but after rereading it, I decided to just let it go and didn't post/send it. Sometimes just writing it can be cathartic and posting/sending isn't actually worth the bother.

Also consider using the "Add to ignore list" option in any members' profile. If, however, you do decide to engage with someone who just rubs you the wrong way, remember that you can certainly disagree with other members without crossing the line into abuse, name calling, or harassment. I find it usually more effective when you do anyway.