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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Skilled builders

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaMe ChAnGeR1 View Post
    That is either not fully maxed or the gold pass provides more than 80% faster progression. Lets take a look at Galadon's NoCash Clash series as an in-game example. He started a new account exactly a year ago. Its currently just a brand new 11. As for the 4.6 years, the calculations took into account all 6 builders throughout. Also yes time per townhall level was higher in the past but the overall time to max out was much lower as the number of townhalls was lesser. Also, the current quarterly updates would be enough to satisfy the need for more content. If not, design some new game modes exclusive to the end-game so that they will not get bored.



    Methods like? Magic items do not affect the lab much. I took the trader offers into account just twice a year. Time zones are a factor because upgrades may end when it is night, and there would be a gap between upgrades. Also, farming resources may also cost time between upgrades. As I said above, just take a look at Galadon's NoCash Clash series. Pixel crux shows 1 year and 100 days to reach TH11 and he reached there in 1 year and 20 days.
    "Magic items don't affect the lab much"?

    It's not inconceivable that some players, have enough CWL medals to easily, use a hammer a month in the lab; there's around half a year chopped. Factor in books or potions & your 4.6 years becomes a nonsense. Plenty of players are aware of the lab bottleneck & will prioritise it to an extent.

    Your example using Galadon's does not even reinforce your case, on the contrary, it reinforces mine. If 80 days can be saved in 1.3 years, that's close to 300 days off your 4.6 years; it's ballpark 25% & that is not trivial.

    What is trivial though, are upgrades especially in the lab) finishing overnight. It'll cost hours at worst & can easily be avoided by using a potion, keeping an eye on the timer & being ready to start the next upgrade. Time zones are not relevant; anyone in any timezone can have upgrades finish overnight.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaledonian View Post
    "Magic items don't affect the lab much"?

    It's not inconceivable that some players, have enough CWL medals to easily, use a hammer a month in the lab; there's around half a year chopped. Factor in books or potions & your 4.6 years becomes a nonsense. Plenty of players are aware of the lab bottleneck & will prioritise it to an extent.

    Your example using Galadon's does not even reinforce your case, on the contrary, it reinforces mine. If 80 days can be saved in 1.3 years, that's close to 300 days off your 4.6 years; it's ballpark 25% & that is not trivial.

    What is trivial though, are upgrades especially in the lab) finishing overnight. It'll cost hours at worst & can easily be avoided by using a potion, keeping an eye on the timer & being ready to start the next upgrade. Time zones are not relevant; anyone in any timezone can have upgrades finish overnight.
    Yes, 270 days out. That's still 3.8 years tho, to max out TH13 even after taking into account all the magic items. By that time there would probably be TH16. Take the upgrade times of TH14, 15, 16 and it would be well over 7 years before there is any chance of maxing out(even after taking into account the magic items).

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaMe ChAnGeR1 View Post
    Yes, 270 days out. That's still 3.8 years tho, to max out TH13 even after taking into account all the magic items. By that time there would probably be TH16. Take the upgrade times of TH14, 15, 16 and it would be well over 7 years before there is any chance of maxing out(even after taking into account the magic items).
    When TH10, TH11, TH12 were the top THs, all upgrade times across the board were higher and it would take years for a F2P player to max starting from scratch. When TH14, TH15, TH16 are released, surely history will repeat itself and the upgrade times in lower THs will drop again, so it won't be 7 years like you hypothesize.

    The game has to think about longevity - if a F2P player could fully max from scratch within a year, then the game would have surely died long ago.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaMe ChAnGeR1 View Post
    That is either not fully maxed or the gold pass provides more than 80% faster progression. Lets take a look at Galadon's NoCash Clash series as an in-game example. He started a new account exactly a year ago. Its currently just a brand new 11. As for the 4.6 years, the calculations took into account all 6 builders throughout. Also yes time per townhall level was higher in the past but the overall time to max out was much lower as the number of townhalls was lesser. Also, the current quarterly updates would be enough to satisfy the need for more content. If not, design some new game modes exclusive to the end-game so that they will not get bored.



    Methods like? Magic items do not affect the lab much. I took the trader offers into account just twice a year. Time zones are a factor because upgrades may end when it is night, and there would be a gap between upgrades. Also, farming resources may also cost time between upgrades. As I said above, just take a look at Galadon's NoCash Clash series. Pixel crux shows 1 year and 100 days to reach TH11 and he reached there in 1 year and 20 days.
    I maxed th11 in 5 months with walls on my mini. Not sure how long total I've played my mini. I put it aside for a while because I was trying hyper-rushing and decided I hated it. Once I got it going again, progression was very quick. At 10, I could put it in cwl for stars and got 1 to 2 hammers a month. Those mostly go to lab. I can do heroes manually or with books and lab hammers are a better deal for medal cost and time saved.
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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaMe ChAnGeR1 View Post
    Yes, 270 days out. That's still 3.8 years tho, to max out TH13 even after taking into account all the magic items...
    Why are you continuing to understate things that don't suit your narrative? You acknowledge a 270 day reduction (it could be much, much more than that*), but it does not account for "all the magic items" as you claim. Books & potions could add significantly more to the total.

    .. By that time there would probably be TH16. Take the upgrade times of TH14, 15, 16 and it would be well over 7 years before there is any chance of maxing out(even after taking into account the magic items).
    As Johnny has already pointed out, we can expect ongoing reductions for lower levels as halls are added. It's not unreasonable to hope for a variation of a Jam event before each new hall is released; 3 Jam events will save several weeks.

    *Even if you hold off on hammer use until the final 2 years of the process, that's 24 hammers saving (by that stage) an average of 2 weeks per hammer. 48x7 is a lot more than 270.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaledonian View Post
    Why are you continuing to understate things that don't suit your narrative? You acknowledge a 270 day reduction (it could be much, much more than that*), but it does not account for "all the magic items" as you claim. Books & potions could add significantly more to the total.



    As Johnny has already pointed out, we can expect ongoing reductions for lower levels as halls are added. It's not unreasonable to hope for a variation of a Jam event before each new hall is released; 3 Jam events will save several weeks.

    *Even if you hold off on hammer use until the final 2 years of the process, that's 24 hammers saving (by that stage) an average of 2 weeks per hammer. 48x7 is a lot more than 270.
    So you mean that Galadon is not using potions and books to upgrade???The 270 days is what the books and potions reduced from the lab time. He is actively playing on the account(along with his others, of course). Don't think that progression can be faster than what he has managed.


    Jam events do not affect the lab(and lab takes the highest time to max out).


    Yes there would be reductions but the problem is that it is mostly restricted to the very low levels. Take the recent D.E troop time and cost reduction as an example. Only the time and cost of the lower level troops are reduced.


    By 270, I mean 270 builder days and 270 lab days. If both the hammers are used on the lab, the builder would be affected and vice versa. Its a trade off.

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyPC View Post
    When TH10, TH11, TH12 were the top THs, all upgrade times across the board were higher and it would take years for a F2P player to max starting from scratch. When TH14, TH15, TH16 are released, surely history will repeat itself and the upgrade times in lower THs will drop again, so it won't be 7 years like you hypothesize.

    The game has to think about longevity - if a F2P player could fully max from scratch within a year, then the game would have surely died long ago.
    When TH10 and 11 was at the top, it was actually much faster to max out. The gap between new townhall updates helped, too. Don't know about the TH12 time as I wasn't playing at that time.

    Yes the upgrade times would probably be reduced. The catch here is "in lower townhalls".

    Not saying 1 year. That would be way too short. The older 2.5 years to max would be great tho. The current heavy grind may also affect the game player base in the long term. The older user base would probably stay but it may scare off new players(For eg. Boom Beach. The highest townhall equivalent there is 24 or something). Lots of new games popping up with fast-paced gameplay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Piper139 View Post
    I maxed th11 in 5 months with walls on my mini. Not sure how long total I've played my mini. I put it aside for a while because I was trying hyper-rushing and decided I hated it. Once I got it going again, progression was very quick. At 10, I could put it in cwl for stars and got 1 to 2 hammers a month. Those mostly go to lab. I can do heroes manually or with books and lab hammers are a better deal for medal cost and time saved.
    Yes the GP helps a lottttttt... Not sure whether that's a good thing or not for the future of the game. Supercell is introducing it across each and every game of theirs(Idk about Boom Beach but there is probably a Boom Pass or something coming soon there too).
    Last edited by GaMe ChAnGeR1; November 15th, 2020 at 06:31 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaMe ChAnGeR1 View Post
    So you mean that Galadon is not using potions and books to upgrade???The 270 days is what the books and potions reduced from the lab time. He is actively playing on the account(along with his others, of course). Don't think that progression can be faster than what he has managed...
    I don't know what Galadon is doing, nor do I care. It's not particularly relevant either, this is about your bold assertion that it takes X amount of time. It's been established that the time you quoted just isn't so & it doesn't take a great deal of effort to get to where you can discount, at the very least, a quarter of that time.


    ...Jam events do not affect the lab(and lab takes the highest time to max out)...
    True, but then you finish the paragraph below by saying there's a trade-off where hammer use is concerned. The Jam events contribute to maxing out & would make hammer use in the lab more attractive, at times, for the selfsame trade-off.

    ...Yes there would be reductions but the problem is that it is mostly restricted to the very low levels. Take the recent D.E troop time and cost reduction as an example. Only the time and cost of the lower level troops are reduced.


    By 270, I mean 270 builder days and 270 lab days. If both the hammers are used on the lab, the builder would be affected and vice versa. Its a trade off...
    Why do you again choose to belittle the effect of something? Any reductions reduce time, it's not relevant that the reductions are lower level, they still reduce the overall time required to max. You can't just airily dismiss something that partly counters your position.

    To sum up, you have presented a figure that has been challenged. You have consistently downplayed the the points that I & others have made. In addition you've inflated the effects of any mitigating counterpoints you've offered. Your 4.6 years has been thoroughly debunked & the revised 3.8 years that you've acknowledged is probably an overestimation too.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaledonian View Post
    I don't know what Galadon is doing, nor do I care. It's not particularly relevant either, this is about your bold assertion that it takes X amount of time. It's been established that the time you quoted just isn't so & it doesn't take a great deal of effort to get to where you can discount, at the very least, a quarter of that time.
    The catch is "with gold pass". Nobody here has established the time with the silver pass, which is what galadon is doing. Gold Pass cuts off 20%(0.92 years) of upgrade and lab time directly + 5 upgrades per month. Also, there are the runes, potions and the season bank. Much decrease in the farming needed. The silver pass bank is not enough to upgrade even a single wall in the higher levels. Along with these, the GPassers get the F2P rewards like CWL and CG rewards too.



    True, but then you finish the paragraph below by saying there's a trade-off where hammer use is concerned. The Jam events contribute to maxing out & would make hammer use in the lab more attractive, at times, for the selfsame trade-off.
    That does make sense. To my defense, hammer jams are only once in 1.5 years and only 2-3 weeks(2 upgrades/1 hammer).


    Why do you again choose to belittle the effect of something? Any reductions reduce time, it's not relevant that the reductions are lower level, they still reduce the overall time required to max. You can't just airily dismiss something that partly counters your position.
    Why not? When times are introduced this person is probably at the higher townhalls so there would be zero effect. Also, farming does take time.


    To sum up, you have presented a figure that has been challenged. You have consistently downplayed the the points that I & others have made. In addition you've inflated the effects of any mitigating counterpoints you've offered. Your 4.6 years has been thoroughly debunked & the revised 3.8 years that you've acknowledged is probably an overestimation too.
    You are doing the same. You are ignoring the counter-arguments that I have made.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by GaMe ChAnGeR1 View Post
    The catch is "with gold pass". Nobody here has established the time with the silver pass, which is what galadon is doing. Gold Pass cuts off 20%(0.92 years) of upgrade and lab time directly + 5 upgrades per month. Also, there are the runes, potions and the season bank. Much decrease in the farming needed. The silver pass bank is not enough to upgrade even a single wall in the higher levels. Along with these, the GPassers get the F2P rewards like CWL and CG rewards too...
    I don't see where you're going with this, or why it's relevant. I've never assumed, at any point, that the GP was part of the conversation relative to your total time claims.

    ...That does make sense. To my defense, hammer jams are only once in 1.5 years and only 2-3 weeks(2 upgrades/1 hammer).



    Why not? When times are introduced this person is probably at the higher townhalls so there would be zero effect. Also, farming does take time...
    Deeply flawed & again downplaying the effect of something that doesn't suit your argument; whilst maintaining your point has a significant effect.

    Your argument was that it takes 4.6 years (you're now defending, the still inflated 3.8 years), this is total time from start to finish. If we assume, for the sake of argument, that new halls will arrive (on target) at 1 year intervals, I think it's reasonable to assume that a new account will probably greatly benefit from discounts introduced next Summer & it's also probably safe to assume it would benefit from a wall price reduction at the next level upgrade. I agree that an account would probably be too advanced by a 3rd future update to take advantage of a lower level discount. Nonetheless, it's not the "zero effect" that you claim.

    I don't know why you're referring to farming time; why is that suddenly an issue? Hint: it isn't.

    ...You are doing the same. You are ignoring the counter-arguments that I have made.
    I'm sure it would suit you if that were true. I doubt many, if any, would agree.
    Last edited by Kaledonian; November 16th, 2020 at 04:59 PM.

  10. #40
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    Yes, everything that makes the base upgrading faster is welcome.

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