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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Super witches too op?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorenz98 View Post
    In total there were 17 super witch attacks in the 5th qualifier, 9 of them tripled. Other strategies had better hitrates. With Hybrid still on top. Basically everything seems overpowered now.

    Out of 130 attacks during the qualifier 68 attacks were 3 stars which is 52% (Credit to https://twitter.com/ClashChris_OG/st...89502367653889 )
    That's a really high hit rate considering that:
    -Most bases were maxed (The participants got 10k gems gifted by supercell before the event)
    -The bases were built by arguably the best base builders in the world and have been tested for weeks
    -The players have effectively 20 minutes of planning time
    -The players are probably very nervous when so much is on the line

    As a basebuilder I hate the current balance of the game. With the defensive tools we have, we can barely defend 1-2 main strategies consistently and then there are many more entries you have to consider. Spending a lot of time in building and testing only to get it fresh tripled in a competitive match is very frustrating. I helped with the basebuilding for one of the teams in the qualifier, so I know what I'm talking about.

    Even as a player (on offense) I begin to disklike it, because no longer are creative attacks the ones that perform the best. But rather more simple ones, that are less prone to mistakes. A semi good plan with solid execution will usually triple, so there is no need to go for better plans that are more difficult to execute.
    Nice data totally agree, offense is too strong now

    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    The most elite tiny fraction of a percent of players were able to get over 50%, so I think itís clear the vast majority of players canít usually get a triple.
    They will if they just do like Lorenz98 said FC, not exactly 100, 20-30 times for a new troops combo will give u good chance of using it, if u already has basic understanding of funneling

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorenz98 View Post
    Well, anyone can do that if you try 100 times in Fcs.

    In the qualifier however you only have one try and effectively 20 minutes to plan. And you don't just have the best attackers in the world, but also the best bases. Considering that, more than 50% 3 star rate is a lot.



    In the forums you often get the impression it's the top 0.1% vs everyone else in terms of game balance. As if the 99.9% all have the same idea of how the game should be balanced. Most of the players probably don't even worry too much about game balance. And those that do often have completely different views of what is ideal for the game.

    Among the competitive players there is usually more of a consensus in terms of balance. They are also the ones who define the offensive meta and build the bases many players copy, so in some way you are effected by what they do. If you care about them or not.
    Agree


    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    I find those designs very easy to copy, but those attacks on the other hand....Well then thatís not really saying much. What you meant then is the most elite players can usually 3 star with the new offense.
    Only sui Lalo, or very deep queen charge to any troops, but more than half of the 3* attack in this qualifier done with relatively simple attack like drag super minion hybrid, GW walk to Super witch, even the most of the QW is not too deep which is relatively easy to execute for most decent players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    So those stats are almost entirely irrelevant to the balance of the game.

    Those players are way better than almost any of those who are in the top 0.1% of players. They play at another level entirely.

    And in your OP you said "A semi good plan with solid execution will usually triple" which is not even remotely close to true in the game in general. Even at that level, since only 52% were triple, and most would have been MUCH more than "semi good" plans, it doesn't look to be true.
    Very relevant, considering all fresh attack with 20mins preparation, this will certainly make classic war format with 2 attacks irrelevant, with many of them ended perfect wars, and it already happening in many competitive wars.

    Similar to mixed TH classic wars, currently TH10-12 becoming easier, so most of decent clan will have extra lower then 13 attack to scout th13s, so imagine 2 attacks for each 13s, with a few scout before, it will be very hard not to end with perfect wars
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  2. #32
    Junior Member KingDMan's Avatar
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    Solid execution>>>Solid plan

    I've seen many "elite" attackers fail to execute a solid plan and end up with a high-percentage 2star.

    Then another clan member chooses to use the same plan, same entry, same army comp, and triples the base.

    I don't believe the 3star percentage in the qualifiers are an accurate way to measure the strength of offense.

    Player A failed to 3star Player B.

    Umm...okay...tell me more.

    What happened during the failed attempt? Did Player A disconnect? Did they run out of steam at the end? Or was it simply a time fail?

    The conversation about "strength of offense" shouldn't be soley based on 3star percentages, because it doesn't tell the whole story.

    Also, SuperWitches aren't OP, but they are effective against bases that aren't designed to defend against them.

    Same can be said about a lot of meta strategies.

  3. #33
    Forum Veteran Sandy2's Avatar
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    So tired of these threads clamouring for nerfs/buffs.

    When are people going to learn to just trust these decisions to the people whose JOB it is to make these decisions and who have access to ALL the hard data required to make the decisions?

    Sandy
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  4. #34
    Forum Legend Piper139's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by samratulangi View Post
    Nice data totally agree, offense is too strong now



    They will if they just do like Lorenz98 said FC, not exactly 100, 20-30 times for a new troops combo will give u good chance of using it, if u already has basic understanding of funneling


    Agree



    Only sui Lalo, or very deep queen charge to any troops, but more than half of the 3* attack in this qualifier done with relatively simple attack like drag super minion hybrid, GW walk to Super witch, even the most of the QW is not too deep which is relatively easy to execute for most decent players.



    Very relevant, considering all fresh attack with 20mins preparation, this will certainly make classic war format with 2 attacks irrelevant, with many of them ended perfect wars, and it already happening in many competitive wars.

    Similar to mixed TH classic wars, currently TH10-12 becoming easier, so most of decent clan will have extra lower then 13 attack to scout th13s, so imagine 2 attacks for each 13s, with a few scout before, it will be very hard not to end with perfect wars
    Sam, may I suggest that the difference between decent clans and what you and competitive clans experience is light years apart. Same for players. Heck, based on 400k players in legends (which is low), I'm currently in the top 2% of global at about 5500. I get 1 to 2 3 stars a day. Classic wars 15v15 running mostly 13s with a 12 or 3, 3 stars in the top 5 places are rare even with scouts and multiple hits. Next 5, still rare but not quite as much. Thats with all the top 5 having max camps and very few having defenses upgraded with the last bit. Just saying there are two different worlds. The competitive and the rest of us.
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  5. #35
    Forum Superstar JtB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy2 View Post
    So tired of these threads clamouring for nerfs/buffs.

    When are people going to learn to just trust these decisions to the people whose JOB it is to make these decisions and who have access to ALL the hard data required to make the decisions?

    Sandy
    Every gaming company who ever existed had that same data and most of them made dumb decisions that helped the downfall of their games. Feedback from the gaming community is helpful to companies and the longevity of their games.

  6.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #36
    Quote Originally Posted by samratulangi View Post
    Nice data totally agree, offense is too strong now



    Very relevant, considering all fresh attack with 20mins preparation, this will certainly make classic war format with 2 attacks irrelevant, with many of them ended perfect wars, and it already happening in many competitive wars.

    Similar to mixed TH classic wars, currently TH10-12 becoming easier, so most of decent clan will have extra lower then 13 attack to scout th13s, so imagine 2 attacks for each 13s, with a few scout before, it will be very hard not to end with perfect wars
    Thanks for letting us know you are in the top few hundred payers.

    Because nobody else will commonly get perfect wars.

    Ok, we got a lot more triples in our latest mixed 25v25 war, with 12 Th13s at the top, running down to TH8 on both sides. We did finish up with 70 stars, which is the most we've ever had at that size. But our opponents had mostly weak Th13s, with designs that weren't great. And they only got 52 against us. Against a clan with similar strength bases to ours, we wouldn't have got nearly that many.

  7.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #37
    Quote Originally Posted by JtB View Post
    Every gaming company who ever existed had that same data and most of them made dumb decisions that helped the downfall of their games. Feedback from the gaming community is helpful to companies and the longevity of their games.
    While that may be true, feedback telling them they "need" to change because the very top elite are finding to easy is not particularly useful, when they have to keep tens of millions playing, not just those top few hundred.

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    Three is nothing whatsoever that happens in those qualifiers that has any bearing on whether troops are overpowered or not.

    When average joe players start getting 50% plus triple rates with them, then you have an argument.
    I fully agree with this. However, I think we are just waiting for all the popular youtubers to explain how the strategy works and helping the average joe to get better at it.

    If you manage to get all of Super witches to go into the core it seems almost unstoppable. The misses (unlike QC Lalo, Zap Lalo) are also very high % 2 stars.

    Atleast on the face of it, it looks to be a fairly easy strategy to use. The practicality of it, i guess only time will tell.
    Last edited by Zed85; October 19th, 2020 at 08:01 AM.

  9. #39
    Millennial Club Rizzob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorenz98 View Post
    -The bases were built by arguably the best base builders in the world and have been tested for weeks
    I'm going to nitpick this one point about the bases and the base strength. First off, the bases may have been tested for weeks but the update was live for only 4-5 days before the qualifier started. This means bases could only be tested against increased camp space, new super troops, and new levels of regular troops, and the balancing changes (siege barracks comes to mind) for a few days. They were also tested with no idea what the new offensive meta would be.

    If you think the bases are great, just watch the next week - those bases will spread throughout legends as content creators post the bases, which most players will copy without changing a thing. Then everyone will have these great bases, and we'll see how average legends players do against them.

    I don't think these bases are really the best - they were created and tested without knowledge of what the post-update meta will be. The base builders will see the flaws once they have been tested more against the new meta. I think in the next month or so, better bases will be created to counter what the top attacks are, then those bases will proliferate to the public, and you'll hit some equilibrium. Just in time for the winter update.

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  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by samratulangi View Post
    Only sui Lalo, or very deep queen charge to any troops, but more than half of the 3* attack in this qualifier done with relatively simple attack like drag super minion hybrid, GW walk to Super witch, even the most of the QW is not too deep which is relatively easy to execute for most decent players.
    We'll see after CWL, come back and post then when we know the 3 star stats.

    Contact SC here. Click here for how trophies are calculated. Click here to see how war map placement of max halls is determined. An idea to improve legends here. I wish max players had a separate loot bank as described here. Caution, I often discuss for the sake of discussion and enjoy having my opinion challenged (or approved of) even when I care little about the actual issue. My balance wish: get rid of tornado trap, make it a decoration.

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