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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Getting more and more frustrated

  1. #111
    The thing which I noticed here is that those who are against of "making game more fun by slightly increasing triple rate at th13 for casual players", are using all the possible ways to deny that, some of which seems silly to me.
    I am sure game would not last long if complexity at higher halls increases like this for which only small fraction of "pro" players can tackle that.
    I know SC will do their best to prevent that and maintain the balance of game.
    Last edited by ExploringGalaxy; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:43 PM.

  2. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by LorenzoVonMT View Post
    Actually, they have done something. They increased offense over defense in last update and you can see this reflected in the hitrates at champs 1. Before the q2 update, the hitrate sat at 22.7% in jun. http://twoseven.co.uk/coc/cwl/ch1resultsjun2020.htm
    When defense caught up in august, the hitrate increased to 25.1%. http://twoseven.co.uk/coc/cwl/ch1resultsaug2020.htm
    …….
    2020:
    january: 32%
    february: 29.9%
    march: 26.3%
    april: 23.8% (Defensive Update)
    may: 23.5%
    ……..
    January was more fun than May for my clan. It now has climbed back up a little, around the 25% mark.

    Contact SC here. Click here for how trophies are calculated. Click here to see how war map placement of max halls is determined. An idea to improve legends here. I wish max players had a separate loot bank as described here. Caution, I often discuss for the sake of discussion and enjoy having my opinion challenged (or approved of) even when I care little about the actual issue. My balance wish: get rid of tornado trap, make it a decoration.

  3. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExploringGalaxy View Post
    The thing which I noticed here is that those who are against of "making game more fun by slightly increasing triple rate at th13 for casual players", are using all the possible ways to deny that, some of which seems silly to me.
    I am sure game would not last long if complexity at higher halls increases like this for which only small fraction of "pro" players can tackle that.
    I know SC will do their best to prevent that and maintain the balance of game.
    The question with this is how do you make the game slightly easier for "casual players"? No one is against "making the game more fun". Associating 3 stars with fun is not the correct view. If 3 stars makes it more fun...then someone should just lower their trohies or lower themselves in CWL.

    COC is a strategy game where early on its easy to get 3 stars, and late it's easy to "win" (1 or 2 stars)...but hard to get 3 stars. This is how it should be....think of all the great strategy game (chess, Starcraft, CommandnConquere) or even console games like Contra. It requires skill to be the best. Most players (like drivers) assume they are above average attackers. The only people I would say are above average attackers are those with 3-5 comps that they use. If you use 1-2 comps for all your attacks you are a below average attacker and should expect to rarely 3 star. (or you are bored and don't want to try right now...but that's a different story)

    The best way for this is to have the troops as balanced as possible. This way you could use any troop comp to hit a base (just takes skill to figure out the correct one). If you make def weaker or certain troops OP...then the game actually becomes less fun (unless you like just rolling over everyone....like a pro baseball team taking on a tball team).

  4. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by pb913 View Post
    The question with this is how do you make the game slightly easier for "casual players"? No one is against "making the game more fun". Associating 3 stars with fun is not the correct view. If 3 stars makes it more fun...then someone should just lower their trohies or lower themselves in CWL.
    What you're describing is sandbagging in order to punch below your weight class and roll over inferior competition. Once you're close to max and are playing in legends, this is not the way to make things more fun, IMO. When you're farming, it makes sense to manage trophies and choose who you raid carefully. Once you're close to max, it's more fun to compete in the legends format against players in your class.

    Quote Originally Posted by pb913 View Post
    COC is a strategy game where early on its easy to get 3 stars, and late it's easy to "win" (1 or 2 stars)...but hard to get 3 stars. This is how it should be....think of all the great strategy game (chess, Starcraft, CommandnConquere) or even console games like Contra. It requires skill to be the best.
    No one wants the game to be easier to be "the best". This is a straw man in a thread rife with them - although this one is not as bad as other posts claiming people want "automatic triples". I understand that if it's easier to triple, it will also be easier to triple my base. I won't rise in legends league because of it. Nor do I feel I deserve to.

    Quote Originally Posted by pb913 View Post
    Most players (like drivers) assume they are above average attackers. The only people I would say are above average attackers are those with 3-5 comps that they use. If you use 1-2 comps for all your attacks you are a below average attacker and should expect to rarely 3 star. (or you are bored and don't want to try right now...but that's a different story)
    I don't think the way you're defining "above average" holds up. If that's what above average is, I would guess (and yes, it's no more than a guess) that you're defining 1-2% of players as above average, and 98-99% below average. (I know average is different from median, but there isn't THAT much deviation in ability for that to hold true).

    Quote Originally Posted by pb913 View Post
    The best way for this is to have the troops as balanced as possible. This way you could use any troop comp to hit a base (just takes skill to figure out the correct one). If you make def weaker or certain troops OP...then the game actually becomes less fun (unless you like just rolling over everyone....like a pro baseball team taking on a tball team).
    I think maybe the problem shouldn't be stated as "offense is too hard" - maybe it should be stated as "defense is too easy". Speaking solely of max TH13 bases here, good defense takes NO skill. Just copy a successful base - then watch as the one-stars start pouring in. These bases are designed by and for professionals, and with no skill, you can have a defense just as strong. To alter your baseball analogy a bit, imagine if minor league baseball teams could easily use major league pitchers (not rehabbing ones) but not hitters, or position players.

    Again, the goal is not, and has never been, to make TH13 a 3-star fest. It's more about figuring out how to slightly increase the rate to give casual players a chance (and, by extension, our opponents).

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  5. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by pb913 View Post
    The question with this is how do you make the game slightly easier for "casual players"? No one is against "making the game more fun". Associating 3 stars with fun is not the correct view. If 3 stars makes it more fun...then someone should just lower their trohies or lower themselves in CWL.
    With all due respect, you can't tell other people what the "correct view" of fun is. Different people enjoy different things. Also, the we're discussing max th13 vs. max th13 balance here, so that has very little to do with lowering trophies or lowering CWL leagues, other than perhaps weaker base designs.

    Contact SC here. Click here for how trophies are calculated. Click here to see how war map placement of max halls is determined. An idea to improve legends here. I wish max players had a separate loot bank as described here. Caution, I often discuss for the sake of discussion and enjoy having my opinion challenged (or approved of) even when I care little about the actual issue. My balance wish: get rid of tornado trap, make it a decoration.

  6. #116
    Forum Veteran SumoSloth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyPC View Post
    Not reading the whole thread but I'll share my thoughts.
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyPC View Post

    I agree with OP. TH12 and TH13 have so much going on, I can't keep track of it all and can't execute any of the modern attack strategies. A couple years ago I invested time to learn the Falcon attack for my TH10s and TH11s. Like anything, practice makes perfect. At first I was overwhelmed with how to deal with infernos and the eagle, but eventually I got pretty good at it. Attacks at lower THs also got easier with the addition of siege machines. Some base designs are definitely difficult if not impossible (for me) to 3 star with the falcon, and I would benefit from learning some other tried and true strategies. But it's such a chore. And so much more of a chore than it ever was before.

    My top 2 accounts are a TH13 and TH12. I never war with them. I pretty much just use them for donating. My main accounts for wars are TH10 and below. I tolerate TH11. The lower THs are still the most fun for me, so as my top accounts advance into the not-fun range, I create a new mini. I'm up to 10 accounts.

    The game is just getting more and more complicated, which for me being a casual player, is less and less fun.
    This is 100% my view and I've had a similar experience!

    Quote Originally Posted by Piper139 View Post
    Its a game. Not a job. For regular players. I can't spend hours doing fcs. I dont have spotters watching over my shoulder. I dont jump through hoops to have two super troops available the same time. I'm fine with practicing and trying different things. But if I have to put as much effort into it as a job to have a decent chance of threes, its no longer fun. I dont expect to be a pro player that can 3 star any base with a queen walk and a few goblins. However, I dont expect 3 stars to be rare as a blue moon either. I didnt sign up for war college. If the gulf between hard core and casual players at the top town hall level continues to widen, the casuals will fade away.


    Again couldn't agree more. The more like work this game becomes in terms of the time and patience to practice and become good at it, the less interested I become. I have enough time consuming, challenging activities in my life that when this one becomes too much it will have to be cut from the list of leisure activities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tosti111 View Post
    It doesnt have to be a “more”. Lets say regular folks are running a TH13 three star rate at 15% right now and lets say pros are running 40%. A small change to bring regular players to 20% (+5%) would bring them a lot more enjoyment. That same change however might bring pros to 50% (+10%). Regular players feel it is more achievable and pros still view it as competitive. These are examples only, I dont know the actual % off hand but I used those % to demonstrate the point. The intent is not to make it so easy lower down that the pros are 100% three starring.


    I'm not sure why so many people had such a hard time understanding this idea or example. I understood what you were trying to get across perfectly.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    The only goals I have for this mobile game are to have fun, be entertained, take a break from reality, etc. I have a job that I can focus my struggles on. I have a family that I can be serious with about real goals. This is a game for fun. That's my goal and I have more fun when I get more 3 stars.


    Ditto



    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    As to your last point, I don't want to try harder. I want to have more fun without trying harder. There is nothing wrong with that. This game isn't a job for me. It isn't something I aspire to be a professional at. It isn't even something I think I'll be playing in 10 years so I'm not going to devote hundreds of hours of free time doing something I don't enjoy just to make my "real" attacks more fun. I want my legends, war and CWL attacks to be more fun without trying harder. I'll admit it. I don't want to try harder. I don't want to practice more. I don't want to study. I just want to have a bit of fun and I do and I would have more fun if offense was a little stronger.
    Couldn't have said it better myself.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    We shouldn't assume that all current max th13 players ever experienced max th11 or max th12 play, but even if they did, it doesn't mean all that much for what they are now asking for.
    Agreed, the THs are completely different and have always had their own unique challenges. With it being so easy to jump to the top Th it's something many have never experienced.


    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    I definitely don't expect to get a 3 star. If they double the rate of three stars on max th13s in the areas of the game I play, players would still be way less than 50% and, thus, not expecting a three star.
    Exactly, people seem to be jumping from slight increases, to automatic 3's just to exaggerate their points which does nothing to advance the discussion.


    I can honestly say that today was the first time ever that I've opened the game, looked at it for 5 seconds and decided to close it and play something else instead. I've personally found the game has become complex (on offense) to a point where it's no longer fun to war for me. The copy base feature did exactly as I feared it would when I expressed displeasure for it when it first came out (creating a monotony of carbon copy difficult bases which took zero skill for the defender to build). I find it most fun playing the lower levels, but even those you can only do so many times before it becomes too repetitive.

    The fact for me is that the game is becoming less and less enjoyable by the day and for me that is a sad realization as I've been attached to this game for a very long time. As much as I'd like to write it off as being just me, I have come to observe that it's frankly not true, it's a trend. The forums are much quieter now than they've ever been, the people in my clans and friends list are shutting down or at the very least slowing it down and I literally know no-one in my circles of real-life that play the game anymore. I'm not saying the game is dying, however you'd have to have your head in the sand to not see the game declining. Just my observation, maybe it's simply because of the idea that I've just played the game too long or the idea that the game has become too complex, either way, unfortunately the end is near for me here I am starting to feel.
    Last edited by SumoSloth; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:20 PM.
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  7. #117
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    Lots of good points, for me it's quite simply that frickin Scattershot. It's doing way too much damage in my opinion. Right now it's firing at 1000%, we need it dialed down to 100%.

    Other than that I find it very difficult playing th13 on a phone, and my phone is 6" diagonal. I can't imagine playing th14 on a phone. The scaling of this game needs to be addressed in a major way

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumoSloth View Post




    I can honestly say that today was the first time ever that I've opened the game, looked at it for 5 seconds and decided to close it and play something else instead. I've personally found the game has become complex (on offense) to a point where it's no longer fun to war for me. The copy base feature did exactly as I feared it would when I expressed displeasure for it when it first came out (creating a monotony of carbon copy difficult bases which took zero skill for the defender to build). I find it most fun playing the lower levels, but even those you can only do so many times before it becomes too repetitive.

    I too had serious misgivings about the copy base feature. It created the scenario we are in today....any max TH13 can have a pro level base within an hour of the esport airing it. Defense no longer is a skill, it is a copy machine. As a result, the growth in base design that used to go hand in hand with growth in offensive skillset has been decoupled. Now anyone is an instant defensive expert but instead of attacking bases that are closer to your attacking ability, you have to attack the same base as Itzu.

    In my opinion, it is the equivalent of replacing the goalies for both teams ina 12 yr old and under hockey league with NHL goalies on both sides and wondering why the scores are so low.

    Who would have guessed that having an instant pro level base design would negatively impact three star rates? <sarcasm>
    Last edited by Tosti111; 4 Weeks Ago at 09:13 PM.
    OP Defense: Any defense the poster doest’t like or know how to work around, nullifies their attack or denies them their rightful three star.

  9. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by dongiovanni View Post
    Lots of good points, for me it's quite simply that frickin Scattershot. It's doing way too much damage in my opinion. Right now it's firing at 1000%, we need it dialed down to 100%.
    I think the SS is one of the things that could use a slight adjustment

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by LorenzoVonMT View Post
    Imo the current balance is done such that a casual player that puts some time in to practice attacks can attain a decent 3 star hitrate while keeping it competitive at the highest level.
    you can’t practice for something that is out of your control

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