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  1. #1
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    Question Hero Auto Ability Feature Question

    Long post warning, sorry. I tend to ramble when writing stuff like this.

    Also, I wasn't overly sure where to post this, so I posted it here. It was either here or in the "Problem" section.

    I guess my overall question is simple: How does the hero "auto ability" feature work?

    And not just "It uses your hero's abilities automatically before they die." I mean on a technical level, what does the AI in the game look for, how does it operate, what triggers it, etc.

    Here's specifically why I'm asking (in addition to just being curious and wanting to understand the nuanced AI in the game). Over the past several years, I have slowly trained my mom on how to play the game. I know, I have a "cool" mom...she enjoys playing video games with her kids. She did well at TH7-8, I taught her Dragons and once she got the main idea down, she rocked with them. Now she's moved up in the world and has a TH10 account and a TH9 account. Queen Walking has been a bit of a struggle, especially when dealing with enemy CC (Dragons and E-Dragons, mainly). Let's just say there have been many-a-missed Queen ability, resulting in a failed attack. So, when the auto ability feature came out, I immediately told her to turn it on, so that, for the most part, she wouldn't have to worry about her heroes (she's using valks now, and it takes up a lot of brain power just to understand the AI, let alone to apply that understanding lol...the less she has to think about in an attack, the better). However, her Queen has still gone down (repeatedly) before dealing with enemy CC troops.

    Every single time thus far I've been able to explain it away. I realize that the Queen's Cloak ability doesn't make her invincible, but makes her un-target-able for the duration of the ability. So, usually what happens is an E-Dragon will fire on her Queen, which would normally take her Queen completely out, dead, done. But, now with the auto ability, instead her Queen lives on...for a split second. What happens then is that all of the Archer Towers, Mortars, Cannons, Hidden Teslas, and everything else pummeling her Queen had already fired at least one shot. So, when her Queen "dies" from the E-Dragon and uses her Cloak ability, all of the health that she gained from the ability is taken away by the shots fired from all those defenses. If you watch the replays in normal speed, it looks like the Queen never uses her ability. You have to watch it in 1/2 speed, and even then you have to go/pause...go/pause...go/pause in order to really see what's going on--to even see the ability being used. This exact (well, nearly exact) situation happened numerous times (10? 12?), so it's not just a fluke, and she was getting really frustrated by it.

    And then comes this morning. She was making her CWL attack. I was watching live, and I couldn't explain it. I proceeded to watch it several times after her attack was completed, and I still couldn't explain it. (There needs to be a re-wind feature in replays by the way...I know this is the wrong sub-forum for "new feature" suggestions, but I just want to throw that out there).

    She was facing a Dragon and 2 Balloons in the enemy CC. The Dragon eventually took her Queen down to 0, at which point the Queen used her Cloak, then boom. Queen down. The Balloons were miles away, and there was only 1 other defense structure in the vicinity--an Archer Tower. One shot from the Archer Tower hit the Queen after her Cloak was used, but that was it. The Archer Tower did 70 DPS (which I assume equals a maximum of 70 damage per shot, since the Tower fires at least once per second, if not more), and her Queen's Cloak was supposed to give her an additional 230 health (give or take, I don't remember the exact number she said...but it was well above 70). At the worst possible scenario, her Queen should've come out of that with 160 health to spare, dealt swiftly with the enemy CC troops, and moved on. But she died.

    I was stumped. This type of stuff never happens to me, all my hero's abilities are used automatically, with no hiccups or problems.

    Then I had a thought: maybe heroes take damage retroactively. So, for easy math, let's say the defensive Dragon did 101 damage-per-shot. Let's say the Queen was at 1 HP before using her ability, and her ability allowed her to recover 150 health. The one Archer Tower shot would still do 70 damage. What I thought might be happening goes something like this:
    Dragon fires, taking the Queen down to 0 HP and triggering her ability.
    Queen recovers 150 health because of her ability.
    However, the Dragon only dealt 1 of his 101 damage, so he still had 100 damage left to deal. He would do so (retroactively), taking the Queen down to 50 HP.
    Mid-air Archer Tower shot hits its mark, dealing 70 damage, thus taking out the Queen.

    So I decided to go play with it on my own accounts, to see if I could figure out if that was how it worked. I do this a lot when planning attacks, I'll friendly challenge myself and test something out (usually to figure out the radius of any given spell, to see if my plan will work). I have 2 accounts: one a mostly max (other than walls) TH12, and a relatively rushed TH8 (long story). The TH8, rushed though it may be, has a level 10 King. So, I had my TH8 attack my TH12. I activated my Eagle Artillery with a bunch of Balloons, and I used said Balloons to clear out an area of the base, leaving trash buildings only. I then dropped my King and watched. It took 5 shots from the Eagle to take my King down to 2 HP (literally, he looked dead, but he didn't use his ability). But as the 6th Eagle shot rained down on him, but before it touched down, he used his ability. He used his ability before he took enough damage to knock him out. It still knocked him out, because he was so low level, but still. I was so seriously confused.

    Maybe it is a difference in how the King and Queen's auto ability AI works. I don't know. I haven't had any more time to play with it yet, outside of that one friendly battle.

    I did spend a few minutes perusing the internet, seeing what I could dig up on the topic. I found nothing, outside of the announcement from Supercell that the feature was being added to the game, and a few YouTube videos highlighting the update, but no focusing on the auto ability feature. No Wikis, no forum posts, no articles, nothing. Which is odd, because when it comes to stuff like this, information is usually not that hard to find. Maybe it's just so new that AI information isn't widely available ???

    If anyone knows of a previously written forum post, article, Wiki page, or something to that effect that explains the inner workings of this feature, feel free to just link that. I'm perfectly content with reading up on it myself, I just can't find the information. And I don't want to waste y'all's time (any more than I already have lol) by having you re-write stuff that's already written.

    But, if such articles, Wiki pages, or forum posts don't exist, could someone please lay out (in relative detail) how all this works? Like I said before, more than just the generic superficial--like, actually what the AI looks for, why it seems to be different for different heroes, etc.

    Please and thank you!

    Sincerely, a super confused veteran Clasher

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    I don't know where to find it, but I believe what the auto-ability does (for the queen/king/rc, warden is different) is: Queen has 10 hp, dragon deals 250 damage, queen now has -240 hp and uses ability to go back up to 60 hp (making up 300 as amount of hp recovery), archer tower deals 70 damage, queen has -10 hp and dies.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Powerpunch's Avatar
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    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...r-auto-ability
    I think this thread can help you understand better about auto ability

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    Forum Hero BloodyIrishman's Avatar
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    You're not meant to rely on the autoability at all and training anyone to isn't wise. It's a last ditch effort to do some extra damage and is in no way an optimal time to use their abilities.

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    Forum Veteran darpan2704coc's Avatar
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    If you can post the video of the attack or provide more details on the levels of AQ, Archer Tower and Dragon from cc, someone here might provide you exact reasoning for why it happened like that. At last, don't make it a habit to rely on Auto Ability, just only for the instance if you forget it & that happening this many times hints towards it being a kind of habit.

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    Suggest her to use freeze on the Electro technically and a rage too. If you arent using freeze then take a poison instead.

    Basically you can overcome the problem of getting hit by an electro if you keep an eye on the spikes of its back. See it? Watch carefully and you will find that it lightens up one by one from its tail and then a zap comes out of his mouth. I guess you already know that if you are an electro lover. Anyway this thing is important in defending electro dragons by queen walk/charge.

    And yes, if her queen is more than 30 then you wont need even a freeze to get that Electro down. Just drop a rage and everything will be okay. And its better to save your ability till your last breath when doing walk/charge. Instead of using ability get a rage dropped on your healers. Make a habit of this.

  7.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #7
    It isn't retrozctive as such, but you have the gist of it.

    The auto ability triggers if an ibcoming shot would take the hero to or below zero hp. But they still take the ful, damage from that incoming shot (and any others on the way). There are cases where the damage from one shot can be more than the health regained.

    And as others have said, the auto ability is very rarely the best time to use it. Much better to hit it yourself when the hero still has enough health for it to be useful.

  8.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #8
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    I was stumped. This type of stuff never happens to me, all my hero's abilities are used automatically, with no hiccups or problems.
    First of all this line right here tells me pretty much rely on auto ability. You should really learn and try not to rely on it.
    Using auto ability is a last resort, forgot to activate it at the best time situation. It doesn’t make the most out of the ability and it’s more of an at least it wasn’t completely wasted. Seriously this is a very ad habit and you certainly shouldn’t be teaching players to rely on it.
    Of course you’d want to leave it on in case you forget but try to figure out when to best use which isn’t when it auto triggers.

    Moving on to your question.
    Auto ability works the same for all heroes as in the mechanics of when it kicks in. However the ability does different things for different heroes. And that’s a bit where the crux is with losing the AQ while under ability. Which is a thing we hear pretty regularly with “lower level” queens especially when players have come to rely on it.

    The BK has health recovery and stronger attack damage with speed and enraged state. The AQ has (some) health recovery becomes invisible so defenses choose other targets and has an increased damage. The GW becomes invincible and the RC has huge health recovery and throws a shield to hit multiple defenses.
    Anywho the nature of the ability makes it so that the GW won’t die the second his ability is triggered. Incoming damage won’t harm him anymore. The RC has huge health recovery which is usually enough unless she’s on ramped up single IT fire. The BK has quite a lot of health recovery also, usually more then enough to overcome incoming damage and use the ability entirely.
    Now the AQ’s health recovery however isn’t all that high to begin with especially in the mid and lower levels. And as you said ability makes her invisible and not invincible. Incoming damage fired before cloak was activated will still hit her.

    We also know that Auto Ability is triggered basically at the last possible second. And that is when incoming damage (mid air) is guaranteed to kill the hero will leave the health at 0 or lower. It’s mathematically possible that the incoming damage leaves the hero at a negative number which means that when the ability is triggered sometimes even the whole health recovery isn’t enough to cover the damage and she’s killed instantly. In other times the recovery is so minimal (because it has to make up for the - number to reach 0) that there isn’t much left.

    A little sidestep by the way and ATs DPS of 70 means 70 damage per second (which is different from damage per shot) the attack rate is 0.5 seconds so in this case it’s 35 per shot. It’s not uncommon for an active AT to have 2 shots in the air at the same time.
    Its possible the ability triggered because the AQ health was already going to be -70 because of the AQ and that would only leave a health of 160 based on your 230ish.

    Speaking of the 230 health recovery. There is no ability level that has 230. So the next closest would be 225. That would put the AQ on ability level 4 which corresponds with an AQ level of 20-24, that gives us some insight on the AQ level. If it’s ability level 5 we’re talking AQ in the high 20s. And that’s still a quite low level AQ and with that I mean fragile AQ.

    So lets talk dragon, you mentioned a war situation so I assume the dragon was pretty high level or maxed. A maxed dragon’s (level 8) attack shot does 412.5 damage... Which is much higher then that AQ could ever recover. Even a level 5 dragon which between perks and all should be easily available for most would mean 300 damage per shot.

    I used quite a bit of QW and QW with a queen in the levels 20s is not easy. You cannot let her health get too low an need to burn rage’s or freezes to keep the pressure off. But that’s a different story.
    Last edited by Kaptain Kat; July 4th, 2020 at 09:29 AM.

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  9. #9
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    Thanks to all who replied!

    I should clarify, I generally don't rely so heavily on the auto ability feature. Then again, on my main account, my heroes are high enough level that it would probably still work if I did. My statement about the fact that the auto ability always works for me was more in reference to if/when I forget an ability, it hasn't failed me yet.

    I would also agree that, generally, teaching someone to rely on this crutch isn't the best of ideas.

    Generally.

    One thing to keep in mind, when I did instruct her to (basically) rely on this feature, I was under the impression that it worked something like this:
    Queen is taking damage,
    Game AI recognizes she will take more damage than she can handle,
    Auto ability triggers the cloak before Queen would take said damage and die (thereby resetting the target for whatever would have killed her), saving her.

    That, for the Queen at least, makes infinitely more sense to me than the way it is now. But, I get consistency, even if only for the sake of not having to write all new code just for the odd hero out. (Totally not a dis on the game developers by the way, I'm serious. I've tried writing even basic code, and it's a nightmare...nothing but respect for the people behind all the codes of the game lol). It would be nice, though, to have this information out there, more readily available.

    The other thing to keep in mind is the situation. This is not a "generally" thing. She has trouble with all of the steps to an attack. She doesn't like facing "scary" E-Dragons (everything's scary until you get to play with it yourself...I don't like facing scattershots right now, but I'm sure I'll learn how to deal with them once I get to TH13). She has a hard time keeping track of her main pack of valks...she'll often drop a rage on 3 when she needed to drop it on the pack of 9 on the other side of the base. I also showed her (numerous times) the spikes on the back of the E-Dragon, taught her the timing, demonstrated it, all that...she still could never reallly get it down. She still has trouble placing her poisons in the right spot. She also, unlike myself (and likely most of us here) doesn't have much--or any--spare time to dedicate to learning this stuff. She's lucky if she remembers her war attacks, and it's a real struggle for her to get even close to maxing just one of her accounts out on Clan Games.

    Long story short, she enjoys playing the game, but it can be overwhelming for her mid-attack. So, if there was any way I could help her to do better...to, say, not have to worry about one of the crucial parts of an attack, to know the game will do it for her...it only made sense for me to do it. At least until she had a better grasp of the other portions of her attacks, at which point all spare brain-power could be devoted to focusing on this one area. The auto ability was a perfect way to do that, until it wasn't lol.

    One small irony in all of this: it would seem that this function, on paper, is geared towards the lower level, less experienced players. Players who are more likely to forget that they have to tap on their heroes a second time, because there's another cool thing in store for them. (There is the other side of the coin, the very high level players that have so much going on in their attacks that they lose track, but that does seem more like a crutch. Here I'm more referencing the non-crutch aspect of this feature). However, the way it's set up now, it generally doesn't play out well for the lower level heroes. The feature really only starts to work "well" with relatively higher level heroes--by which time, one should've mastered these things. It seems silly, if the feature is geared toward this subset of players (which, in my mind, makes the most sense), to have the mechanics set up this way.

    That's off topic though. Again, thanks for all the replies. I better understand this, whether or not it works the way I think it should. I'll figure out something to help her deal with CC better...somehow...lol
    Knowledge is knowing the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting the tomato in the fruit salad.

  10.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #10
    Kaptain Kat's Avatar
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    Everything starts to get scary around TH9 & 10 and the only way to get through is to keep practicing. Friendly challenges with a e drag or dragon in CC could possibly help too.
    When I was TH8/TH9 I was scared of Xbows, when I was TH9/10 I was scared of infernos... and so on.

    Thing is the feature works the same whether you have high level heroes or low level ones. The difference is that the health recovery on low levels aren’t all that much. As you are well aware like you said is that invisibility and invincibility aren’t the same yet you seem to sort of expect the invincibility. As soon as the AQ puts her cloak on the shots which were fired at her before the cloak was triggered will still hit her. Just like she can trip and get damage from a (giant) bomb when invisible. Often incoming damage which will trigger her ato ability will lead to her having - xx health. So the health recovery is consumed very quick.

    That being said if she loses an AQ to a dragon fire when the balloons are still far away then that’s about the first shot the dragon fires off. Which really means the AQ is already of very low health when that dragon pops out of the CC. Now she really should’ve dropped a rage on those healers already or a freeze on some other defenses hitting her the second that dragon popped out of the CC. It’s important to go into such battles with high enough health and not letting it drop so low when you’re about to face the dragon.
    When scouting the base take note of the cc circle so you know when something is close enough to trigger the CC and you can be prepared for it.

    That being said using QW with a Queen below 35 is really something for second time players who’ve learned the tricks of the trade with a higher level more forgiving AQ. I’m not saying it can’t be done, as it sure can but it’s more difficult. The flip side is if you learn it now with all the struggles it gets a little easier later on.
    Last edited by Kaptain Kat; July 5th, 2020 at 07:26 AM.

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