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Thread: Is the warden supposed to behave like this?

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Alishr99 View Post
    The bigger picture is .....
    Judging warden behavior based on several bad attack isn't a good example
    No one is judging GW based on several bad attacks.
    It is narrowed down to one specific scenario (which was concluded after a lot of attacks over the years by many players) :
    Should GW stop supporting and following group of main troops (more than 50 troops space) in order to follow a Hero (25 troops space) ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Alishr99 View Post
    Because my warden seem to work as intended
    Wether it's ground or air
    He's supporting main unit flawlessly

    When warden goes completely crazy and unexpected ... Unexplainable... For everyone and Everytime
    I'll agree there's something wrong
    Because you never dropped Hero near your GW or main troops, which means your GW has no choice but to follow your main troops. You are not discussing this based on the scenario/topic at hand. In the exact same scenario, your GW will more likely to follow a Hero instead of your main troops. Unless you could prove with replay video that in your attacks, with the same exact scenario your GW choose to follow group of main troops instead of a nearby Hero.
    Last edited by Mercfovia87; 4 Weeks Ago at 03:12 AM.

  2. #92
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    I am facing same issue sometimes in Lalo attacks. Sometimes he follows minions & lava pups while loons go ahead ignored.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercfovia87 View Post
    No one is judging GW based on several bad attacks.
    It is narrowed down to one specific scenario (which was concluded after a lot of attacks over the years by many players) :
    Should GW stop supporting and following group of main troops (more than 50 troops space) in order to follow a Hero (25 troops space) ?



    Because you never dropped Hero near your GW or main troops, which means your GW has no choice but to follow your main troops. You are not discussing this based on the scenario/topic at hand. In the exact same scenario, your GW will more likely to follow a Hero instead of your main troops. Unless you could prove with replay video that in your attacks, with the same exact scenario your GW choose to follow group of main troops instead of a nearby Hero.
    Nahh... It's all about clear path right
    Set the funnel ... Don't give warden a choice
    Otherwise you're screwed

    You want a scenario when I drop king queen shortly drop main army and warden act smart following main army ?!
    He's a support hero .. give him a clear path who has to support and follow ... Don't makes him confused

  4. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Alishr99 View Post
    Nahh... It's all about clear path right
    Set the funnel ... Don't give warden a choice
    Otherwise you're screwed

    You want a scenario when I drop king queen shortly drop main army and warden act smart following main army ?!
    He's a support hero .. give him a clear path who has to support and follow ... Don't makes him confused
    Yes, you can't prove it, because you can't show the same exact scenario to say that GW AI is fine in that scenario. So all these while you saying GW AI is fine carries little weight to the issue this thread is all about, as you are talking about GW AI all all other scenario.

    The problem is that with all the creative base designs it is impossible sometimes to deploy your Heroes far from your GW and Main Armies, sometimes you have to take the path to 3 star that base, but such strategy are not possible due to Heroes can't be deployed near the GW and Main Armies. Back to the OP post, there is nothing wrong with deploying BK near the GW and Main troop for the purpose of creating funnel, yet the GW get caught up with the BK instead of following the main troops. Well he could avoid deploying BK there, but he wouldn't have good funnel and will cause his main troops to drift aside instead to the core of the base.

    You are confusing yourself there. The purpose of the funnel is so that you don't give your main troops a choice, not for your GW. GW should be set to follow main troops, but currently it is not.

    And, why would you against this AI improvement request since this change would not have any impact on your attacks (which is deploying Hero far form GW) ?
    Last edited by Mercfovia87; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:12 AM.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercfovia87 View Post
    Yes, you can't prove it, because you can't show the same exact scenario to say that GW AI is fine in that scenario. So all these while you saying GW AI is fine carries little weight to the issue this thread is all about, as you are talking about GW AI all all other scenario.

    The problem is that with all the creative base designs it is impossible sometimes to deploy your Heroes far from your GW and Main Armies, sometimes you have to take the path to 3 star that base, but such strategy are not possible due to Heroes can't be deployed near the GW and Main Armies. Back to the OP post, there is nothing wrong with deploying BK near the GW and Main troop for the purpose of creating funnel, yet the GW get caught up with the BK instead of following the main troops. Well he could avoid deploying BK there, but he wouldn't have good funnel and will cause his main troops to drift aside instead to the core of the base.

    You are confusing yourself there. The purpose of the funnel is so that you don't give your main troops a choice, not for your GW. GW should be set to follow main troops, but currently it is not.

    And, why would you against this AI improvement request since this change would not have any impact on your attacks (which is deploying Hero far form GW) ?
    OP main troops is hogs ... Dropping hogs and warden near an alive king is tricky as you give warden a choice and possibility to switch ...
    Warden support any troop inside his aura
    So .. you want to avoided such situations
    That's the purpose of funnel
    Make a clear path for main army
    And warden too ... If you want warden to stick with main army ...

    I don't know your favorite army
    But any strats I use at TH13 use warden with main army so the purpose of funnel is to set clear path for main army and warden

    Bad attack is bad attack .. asking for improvement based on bad attack isn't worth it
    The op case is easily avoidable if he wait a little bit for king to die
    Keep in mind OP face it for the first time (first... )
    So .. he has been so flawlessly for a long time

    There's always a room for an improvement
    But .. what the thread asking is just like
    So I drop king and queen
    Shortly I drop mass dragon behind or near them
    My warden should act smart like I want him to act
    Following the troop I want him to follow
    But hey .. warden goes crazy .. following queen
    She's die.. oh no .. he's following king and spawned
    At the same time all dragon slowly die without warden


    Any strats... Any base design ... Uses hero and troop behavior
    Without this knowledge.... You can't success

    Facing complicated bases ... That's where you have to set a funnel
    To simplify the bases... Make a clear path

  6. #96
    You are back to your original statement again. This is going no where. So I am going to say this and go out of this endless cycle debate with you. You can have all the words you want, but you still can't prove the AI is fine the way it is for that exact same scenario, so your points still carry little weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alishr99 View Post
    Any strats... Any base design ... Uses hero and troop behavior
    Without this knowledge.... You can't success
    This is not the problem this thread is discussing about.
    Heroes and Troops AI are clear, no question about it, understanding troop and Heroes AI, part of skill, we get it. We should learn AI and make use with what we get.

    The next step is, should the AI be improved in this exact scenario, that GW follows group of troops instead of a Hero in the exact OP scenario.
    This has nothing to do with bad attack, where you deploy troops and Heroes is base dependent (such as in OP post), and a fail attack doesn't equally means bad attack, this is more about bad GW AI on this part. Which is why this thread is discussing about the potential improvement to GW AI.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alishr99 View Post
    Facing complicated bases ... That's where you have to set a funnel
    To simplify the bases... Make a clear path
    A good funnel is created so that your Main Armies will go to the places you want them to go, and GW should follow. In OP case, he had created good funnel, Main Armies are going in the right direction. GW deployed right behind, his timing is great, but GW chose to stay behind and support BK which have less space than his Main Armies. So OP doesn't have funnel issue here, why do you keep talking about funnel for GW, it doesn't make any sense.

    I don't know about you, but if I have Main Troops (with over 50 spaces) and another Hero in GW range, I want my GW to keep following the Main Troops. This is not about why we have that Hero in GW range (because this scenario could happen anytime during the raid, and that's regardless where you deploy them). Having a Hero in GW range doesn't mean it is a bad attack.
    Last edited by Mercfovia87; 4 Weeks Ago at 05:53 AM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercfovia87 View Post
    You are back to your original statement again. This is going no where. So I am going to say this and go out of this endless cycle debate with you. You can have all the words you want, but you still can't prove the AI is fine the way it is for that exact same scenario, so your points still carry little weight.



    This is not the problem this thread is discussing about.
    Heroes and Troops AI are clear, no question about it, understanding troop and Heroes AI, part of skill, we get it. We should learn AI and make use with what we get.

    The next step is, should the AI be improved in this exact scenario, that GW follows group of troops instead of a Hero in the exact OP scenario.
    This has nothing to do with bad attack, where you deploy troops and Heroes is base dependent (such as in OP post), and a fail attack doesn't equally means bad attack, this is more about bad GW AI on this part. Which is why this thread is discussing about the potential improvement to GW AI.



    A good funnel is created so that your Main Armies will go to the places you want them to go, and GW should follow. In OP case, he had created good funnel, Main Armies are going in the right direction. GW deployed right behind, his timing is great, but GW chose to stay behind and support BK which have less space than his Main Armies. So OP doesn't have funnel issue here, why do you keep talking about funnel for GW, it doesn't make any sense.

    I don't know about you, but if I have Main Troops (with over 50 spaces) and another Hero in GW range, I want my GW to keep following the Main Troops. This is not about why we have that Hero in GW range (because this scenario could happen anytime during the raid, and that's regardless where you deploy them). Having a Hero in GW range doesn't mean it is a bad attack.
    OP timing isn't great .. already explained it .. Wich is easily avoidable in the future

    And i gives you some examples about smart AI

    Why bother to funnel if all I need is drop heroes to distract eagle and some defenses
    Drop main army and warden near or even behind heroes to start penetrating the bases ...
    Hey .. who care about placement and timing ... Right ..
    My warden is smart .. so he would following big group

    While it's look good on paper ..
    An improvement you wanted would make this games becomes so dull ..

  8. #98
    Senior Member clasher0011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alishr99 View Post
    Nahh... It's all about clear path right
    Set the funnel ... Don't give warden a choice
    Otherwise you're screwed

    You want a scenario when I drop king queen shortly drop main army and warden act smart following main army ?!
    He's a support hero .. give him a clear path who has to support and follow ... Don't makes him confused
    That's the point he shouldn't be confused on which group to follow he should just follow the biggest group doesn't matter who's near him if the bigger group is close enough then he should follow the bigger group.

    Hi

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercfovia87 View Post
    Yes, you can't prove it, because you can't show the same exact scenario to say that GW AI is fine in that scenario. So all these while you saying GW AI is fine carries little weight to the issue this thread is all about, as you are talking about GW AI all all other scenario.

    The problem is that with all the creative base designs it is impossible sometimes to deploy your Heroes far from your GW and Main Armies, sometimes you have to take the path to 3 star that base, but such strategy are not possible due to Heroes can't be deployed near the GW and Main Armies. Back to the OP post, there is nothing wrong with deploying BK near the GW and Main troop for the purpose of creating funnel, yet the GW get caught up with the BK instead of following the main troops. Well he could avoid deploying BK there, but he wouldn't have good funnel and will cause his main troops to drift aside instead to the core of the base.

    You are confusing yourself there. The purpose of the funnel is so that you don't give your main troops a choice, not for your GW. GW should be set to follow main troops, but currently it is not.

    And, why would you against this AI improvement request since this change would not have any impact on your attacks (which is deploying Hero far form GW) ?
    The BK wasn't deployed there it was a sui attack after clearing the townhall the bk went outside the base for the storages I couldn't have predicted the bk going outside the base.when such scenarios occur you can't do anything except trust the warden AI to follow properly.I couldn't have avoided the king in anyway since I didn't deploy him.The warden AI needs improvement as you said.The warden should follow the group with the most weight.

    Hi

  10. #100
    Senior Member clasher0011's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alishr99 View Post
    OP timing isn't great .. already explained it .. Wich is easily avoidable in the future

    And i gives you some examples about smart AI

    Why bother to funnel if all I need is drop heroes to distract eagle and some defenses
    Drop main army and warden near or even behind heroes to start penetrating the bases ...
    Hey .. who care about placement and timing ... Right ..
    My warden is smart .. so he would following big group

    While it's look good on paper ..
    An improvement you wanted would make this games becomes so dull ..
    why do we need good AI anyway right? We'll just place better and time everything so precisely that good AI isn't needed, we'll just plan every single step of the heroes so that it'll be fun /s

    All jokes aside
    There was no way I could have avoided the king he went inside the base got the townhall then came outside the base for the storages.Troops/queen are funnelled to go into the base,warden doesn't require funneling.the warden is supposed to follow the biggest group that's it no funneling is needed that's literally his job following the biggest group is what a support hero should do and that's how he is designed.
    Last edited by clasher0011; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:35 AM.

    Hi

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