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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Mismatch in classic wars

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by HumptyGoblin View Post
    I didn’t tell you what you believe. I asked a question (as indicated by the question mark at the end of the sentence), but if you want to see it that way you’re welcome. I’m happy to help.

    Perhaps someone can help define what SC means by “messing with matchmaking?” It seems clear to me.
    No-one can define it, not even SC. IMO that clause is written like many other contractual clauses such that it gives the company the greatest flexibility to both include things that they already know are against their vision as well as any new items that they may not have thought of. it also allows the company to change it’s mind as situations warrant.

    Nothing wrong with that IMO, just how many corporations work.
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma View Post
    Honestly, one could argue that what Sam, Major, et al do (and what the old cut/paste engineering of the past did) "negatively affects other users' experience".
    Not any more credibly than one could argue a really good clan that simply beats others on attacking skill, alone, is negatively affecting other users' experience. Me deciding to spend my gold on one defense instead of another due to a perceived war weight impact is all engineering is and there is no way one could argue it is a terms of service violation because there is no where to draw the line. Roster engineering perhaps gets closer. Individual base engineering, no way.

    FWA I think gets closer, though it depends on the clan(s). Some intentionally lose (gift wins) every time. That probably is closer to a violation than those who try to keep the wins/losses even (though in any one war it would still be win trading). I suspect SC just doesn't see any harm in it.

    Self-match is yet another step closer. They negatively impact other users' experience similar to the way in which donation bots negatively impact players who are legitimately trying to have a very high player XP or donation count yet they get beat out by bots. However, similar to how SC doesn't have any leaderboards for player XP or donation counts, they don't for win streaks either so SC probably perceives it as not a concern worthy of trying to punish.

    Personally, while I think self-matching clans should be punished, I think collusion in legends and CWL is more important and since that isn't pursued enough (in CWL at least), I'd say self-matching should take a back seat to first focusing on more CWL collusion punishments.

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  3.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #43
    Quote Originally Posted by HumptyGoblin View Post
    I didn’t tell you what you believe. I asked a question (as indicated by the question mark at the end of the sentence), but if you want to see it that way you’re welcome. I’m happy to help.
    You absolutely certainly did tell me (wrongly) what I believe. There was no question mark at that point, the question mark was about whether one was more valid than the other.

    Perhaps someone can help define what SC means by “messing with matchmaking?” It seems clear to me.
    It isn't remotely clear.

    It isn't really even clear whether they are talking about clan war or multiplayer or both.

    I would not like to hazard a guess as to whether engineering would fall foul of that or not, though I think slightly more likely not than yes.

    If you are going to say that engineering falls foul of that, then every player who has chosen when to drop or upgrade anything because of perceived effect on war weight would be falling foul of it. Which would be a rather large proportion of players.

  4. #44
    Senior Member HumptyGoblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    You absolutely certainly did tell me (wrongly) what I believe. There was no question mark at that point, the question mark was about whether one was more valid than the other.



    It isn't remotely clear.

    It isn't really even clear whether they are talking about clan war or multiplayer or both.

    I would not like to hazard a guess as to whether engineering would fall foul of that or not, though I think slightly more likely not than yes.

    If you are going to say that engineering falls foul of that, then every player who has chosen when to drop or upgrade anything because of perceived effect on war weight would be falling foul of it. Which would be a rather large proportion of players.
    Quoting a truncated question and saying there wasn’t a question at that point. Haha, thanks for your input Ajax. I feel no need to discuss anything further with you. But thanks.
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  5. #45
    Forum Elder MajorJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HumptyGoblin View Post
    I agree. Ajax claimed that self match clans are cheaters due to the fact that they are violating the SC TOS and therefore their streaks are invalid. My assertion is that engineering win streaks are just as ill-begotten as self-match win streaks so should likewise be considered invalid. But if we use the TOS as the criterion for which validity is determined, then you bringing up the “messing with matchmaking” section applies to engineering, does it not? What else qualifies as messing with the maker? Why should self-match clans be held to a different standard than engineering clans?

    Obviously the website can do as it pleases. Sam can cherry pick whatever stats he feels the need to and overlook whatever stats he likes. I’m simply pointing out the irony of the selective judgement applied to clan inclusion and saying that if it is enforced, the information provided by the website is illegitimate.
    Self match clans are indeed messing with the matchmaker, and they provide 0 value to the game as a whole since they neither farm, nor engage in any part of the game that is relevant to being active or provide revenue. If you were to ever see how our clans function, it's no different than any other clan and when we search for war, it is often different sizes and combinations for every war, sometimes we have to restart because we simply cannot find a match.

    Self match clans circumvent the cooldown period in order match themselves in about 15 minutes or less, no changes in the MM algorithm could stop such a perfect match, and if it wasn't for them matching themselves, they would not be able to find a random match.

    I could self match, but I prefer to build my bases, sometimes get gold pass, play cwl, play clan games, and evolve.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Self match clans are indeed messing with the matchmaker, and they provide 0 value to the game as a whole since they neither farm, nor engage in any part of the game that is relevant to being active or provide revenue.
    ??
    You have data that shows which type of clans ‘paying players’ are in. Paying players provide revenue, correct?

    Do un-clanned players provide value since they never war? What if they farm loot and upgrade-do they provide value then?
    Last edited by JD4U; July 3rd, 2020 at 11:05 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD4U View Post
    ??
    You have data that shows which type of clans ‘paying players’ are in. Paying players provide revenue, correct?

    Do un-clanned players provide value since they never war? What if they farm loot and upgrade-do they provide value then?
    I buy some stuff occasionally, and others do in our clans, what difference between other clans is purely preference. I can tell you that self match clans provide 0 revenue since they can't change bases on either side else it will throw one side out of perfect balance.
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    I buy some stuff occasionally, and others do in our clans, what difference between other clans is purely preference. I can tell you that self match clans provide 0 revenue since they can't change bases on either side else it will throw one side out of perfect balance.
    They can change the bases on both the sides at once :-)

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nexusios1521 View Post
    They can change the bases on both the sides at once :-)
    They could, but why would they?
    In order to self match, you would be looking for an uncommon breakdown, in order to further enhance the chances of finding each other rather than someone else..
    The match still has to use the MMA, so if I were doing it, my roster would be parked in a remote place.

    But nobody here could possibly know what "those" clans look like..
    My thought is that it will most likely be a one man band, since there is no actual game play when it comes down to war.
    But like everybody else, that is purely a guess based on what is entailed.

    it would be interesting to me if anyone had dug into these clans, to look at the cwl side..
    They may have a designated "team" for regular, and a heavy side for cwl week..
    Other than that, it will likely be back to back "change location for team B, then spin"

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by joshsgrandad View Post
    They could, but why would they?
    In order to self match, you would be looking for an uncommon breakdown, in order to further enhance the chances of finding each other rather than someone else..
    The match still has to use the MMA, so if I were doing it, my roster would be parked in a remote place.

    But nobody here could possibly know what "those" clans look like..
    My thought is that it will most likely be a one man band, since there is no actual game play when it comes down to war.
    But like everybody else, that is purely a guess based on what is entailed.

    it would be interesting to me if anyone had dug into these clans, to look at the cwl side..
    They may have a designated "team" for regular, and a heavy side for cwl week..
    Other than that, it will likely be back to back "change location for team B, then spin"
    Makes sense👍🏻 :-) . FWA has a particular townhall requirement for the bases.

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