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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: There has to be something Supercell can do about CWL Spying

  1. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    When you said "I believe Darian isn't drunk during QnA".

    That means you are claiming that he actually doesn't understand the situation, rather than that he just mis-spoke.

    That is very insulting.
    The post is a reply to rak post ...
    So unbelievable you steer this thing up become insulting

    Even rak reply that with better understanding ...

    First ... I've the right to demand a public apologize
    Second ... Read those reply and the post I've replied
    Carefully

    If I am honest .. both of 2222 and rak who start an insult.... As you call them insulting (I'm not the one who call this an insult .. I just following)

    First 2222 following by rak agreeing about misspoke part (you are accusing him misspoke)
    Very insulting isn't it ?!

    When a clear question and a clear answer held during QnA
    2222 and rak underestimate a community manager doesn't understand about the spy situation
    So .. Darian didn't even know why it's only applies for champ ... (But he gives you an answer and reasoning)
    Both of them accusing him misspoke is a serious insult (as you call them .. insult.. right)

    My reply is just to clear the situation ... With a little bit joke ...
    Darian isn't drunk ... He's fully fit .. fully aware of the question and the answer .. with clear mind
    So I don't believe he's misspoke it

    Let's be honest .. if I'm Darian reading this thread
    I'll remain silent just because my answer would makes most of you disappointed ...

    I hopes there's an official answer that's satisfying most of poster here ..

  2. #312
    Quote Originally Posted by Alishr99 View Post
    The post is a reply to rak post ...
    So unbelievable you steer this thing up become insulting

    Even rak reply that with better understanding ...

    First ... I've the right to demand a public apologize
    Second ... Read those reply and the post I've replied
    Carefully

    If I am honest .. both of 2222 and rak who start an insult.... As you call them insulting (I'm not the one who call this an insult .. I just following)

    First 2222 following by rak agreeing about misspoke part (you are accusing him misspoke)
    Very insulting isn't it ?!

    When a clear question and a clear answer held during QnA
    2222 and rak underestimate a community manager doesn't understand about the spy situation
    So .. Darian didn't even know why it's only applies for champ ... (But he gives you an answer and reasoning)
    Both of them accusing him misspoke is a serious insult (as you call them .. insult.. right)

    My reply is just to clear the situation ... With a little bit joke ...
    Darian isn't drunk ... He's fully fit .. fully aware of the question and the answer .. with clear mind
    So I don't believe he's misspoke it

    Let's be honest .. if I'm Darian reading this thread
    I'll remain silent just because my answer would makes most of you disappointed ...

    I hopes there's an official answer that's satisfying most of poster here ..
    It is very clear that me giving Darian the benefit of the doubt and stating he just simply misspoke is not an insult, because the alternative is to say he doesn't understand that "clan management" can't stop players in CWL from seeing my clan's base designs. I have to assume you understand this......which makes me think you are now just trolling me......so I'm out. I'll be happy to carry on the discussion of the issue of CWL spying with others in this thread.

    Contact SC here. Click here for how trophies are calculated. Click here to see how war map placement of max halls is determined. An idea to improve legends here. I wish max players had a separate loot bank as described here. Caution, I often discuss for the sake of discussion and enjoy having my opinion challenged (or approved of) even when I care little about the actual issue.

  3. #313
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    I wonder if this thread has served its usefulness by highlighting an important issue?

  4. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD4U View Post
    I wonder if this thread has served its usefulness by highlighting an important issue?
    Hey, I’m just glad my first reply on this thread is only ranked around like 50th for “most out-of-touch to the issue at-hand” comment.

    I agree with you. I think the problem got enough attention for now, and it were to be brought back on track, further discussion would be welcome.

    With hope but not demand, we might be officially enlightened further on this controversial subject.
    Last edited by toofinedog; June 15th, 2020 at 03:09 AM. Reason: Changed my personal ranking

  5. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    It is very clear that me giving Darian the benefit of the doubt and stating he just simply misspoke is not an insult, because the alternative is to say he doesn't understand that "clan management" can't stop players in CWL from seeing my clan's base designs. I have to assume you understand this......which makes me think you are now just trolling me......so I'm out. I'll be happy to carry on the discussion of the issue of CWL spying with others in this thread.
    It's you who start insult thing and accusing thing
    Not even clear the situation

    Oke .. so now you're questioning someone's job capabilities (for speaking and understanding)

    The rule is there for champs .. but looks like you simply stating he doesn't even know how the rule work .. for what purpose it applied at champ ..

    I think what makes you so disappointed is the reasoning
    Part where he says about lower league

    The most disappointing part is you're accusing me insulting someone
    Last edited by Alishr99; June 15th, 2020 at 02:46 AM.

  6. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    No, that is not quite true.

    Anybody on the roster can see everything.

    Anybody NOT on the roster has to be elder or above.
    Thanks for that info...it does help clarify what's actually been implements for those of us who haven't seen it firsthand.

    With that info, I agree...the additional "Clan Warrior" toggle isn't needed for war protection. I also did a test to validate that Elders can't promote Members to Elders (I was pretty sure that was true, but tested it to be sure).

    If we put all that together, is means that in C1 if a spy gets access to war data, it was because a Leader of Co-leader of one of the clans gave them that access (purposefully or accidentally). Since "purposefully" will always be out there (and really can't be coded out of the game), that leaves me with a few thoughts:
    - this fix doesn't REALLY eliminate 3rd party spies
    - it DOES give some control to every clan's leadership to do the right thing
    - clan leaders in higher CWL tiers are more likely to do the right thing (my opinion), although they certainly will not ALL do the right thing

    I imagine that supercell also knew this...they didn't actually fix it, they just gave better control to leaders. They may also have suspected that it wouldn't take long for everyone to figure that out at lower cwl tiers where there is a significantly larger player base...and therefore, a larger leadership base ("I thought this was fixed, why are spies still getting in?").

    But you know what, I'm OK with that. I'm OK with knowing that I don't have to worry about who our elders are letting into the clan during CWL. I'm OK knowing that the leadership of clans in my bracket has a tool that allows them to do the right thing.

    The fix implemented at C1 won't stop 3rd party spying, but if this helps it stop being possible "everywhere", then it may start being easier to identify abusers. In any case, it would be more than we have now.

    The question stands: What's the downside of releasing the C1 "fix" at every level?
    Last edited by eghere; June 15th, 2020 at 05:46 AM.

  7. #317
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    To summarize:
    We do have anti-spying feature available in the game, but only works for Champions 1 Clans.

    We already knew that Darian recently answered this French Content Creator Q&A:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rak2180 View Post
    Add the same system as the CWL in Champs, to now allow to see map if you are not elder or above to prevent spies?
    No, it is not planned. In C1, with the world at stake, there is money, and Supercell wants to avoid cheating as much as possible.
    For the other leagues, Darian says it was up to the clans to filter the entries and the players.
    Question remain unanswered: What are the cons/disadvantages (negative impact for the game) if the anti-spying feature is activated for all CWL league?

    To bring this discussion forward and productive, let's think of some advantages versus disadvantages for this anti-spying measure in all CWL leagues. So help me out, feel free to add and/or discuss especially the disadvantages (whether those are disadvantages in your opinion). Try to shoot down this idea and see this feature from Developer's point of view if you would.
    Note: below contain mostly just my opinion and not necessarily true or correct.

    Advantages
    1. Eliminate/Minimize any 3rd party spying which are not collusion. Create equal playing field and will benefit competitive Clans that are trying to reach higher CWL tier to compete and gain more medals.
    2. Ability to Recruit members during Clan War / Clan War League without fear of accommodating spies that will affect Clan War or CWL result. In other words, Recruitment can always continue concurrently with Clan War.
    3. Not much resources involved since the code is already available for Champions 1 league.
    4. This will also benefit Clans that farm medals, since minimizing 3rd party spying issue will directly impact the CWL result and indirectly give the Clans better performance/standings to earn more medals.

    Disadvantages
    1. Obvious disadvantages to Clans that took full advantage of 3rd Party Spying since they will have more difficulty to perform spying.
    2. More control/work required for Leader/Co-Leader to manage the Clan because they will need to Promote anyone to Elder whom are friends/clanmates from another Clans so that they could view the War map.
    3. Possible Misuse of Elder position by newly Promoted Members, eg.: kicking other Non-Elder or Elder from the Clan, thus create Clan Management issue.

    Some Points which are neither Advantages nor Disadvantages
    1. No changes if you want to let your opponent in or go in to your opposing clan and have a nice talk after a Clan War or CWL, you could still continue to do so.
    2. Not really disadvantage, but I could see this feature doesn't give many positive impact for lower CWL leagues which sometimes are already unbalanced due to the presence of super strong Clans (line-ups full of TH13) or super Weak Clans (line-ups of many low THs). Though having anti-spying feature doesn't hurt too.
    Last edited by Mercfovia87; June 15th, 2020 at 07:28 AM.

  8. #318
    For now ill only take point #3 of the Advantage section.

    I already made a lot of assumptions on why a lot of ideas are being "ruled-out", and I already stated that maybe because of this game already been active for 10 yeas, tons of codes could have been twisted together, that is when you touch something, there's a big chance everything will crumble down, a very good example in my opinion is the online status, its implemented on the friends list, why is it not implemented on the clan? LuL? Forgot to code? or we got a messed up code?

    The thing that happened in C1 could be a "hotfix", meaning regardless of their development team's coding standards, this issue must be fixed ASAP, leaving the function's underlying code messed up, it could also be the issue why it wasn't implemented below. Hotfix brings alot of pressure on everyone in a company, specially it is mentioned that there was money involved, so somehow I'm on the technical side of why it's only available in C1, as I'm currently experiencing this hotfix thing in my place of work right now, they are demanding fixes disregarding the coding standards we have in place.

    And of course, regardless of who is the representative of SC, be it Darian or someone else, telling the public something sensitive and classified like "the codes cannot accommodate changes quickly so we need to adjust etc etc etc.." or anything technical is bad.

    "We don't care how messed up the code is!, we need a QUICK FIX for this issue ASAP!, because there is a financial involvement here!" - CEO.
    Last edited by maximooze007; June 15th, 2020 at 07:16 AM.

  9.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Alishr99 View Post
    It's you who start insult thing and accusing thing
    Not even clear the situation

    Oke .. so now you're questioning someone's job capabilities (for speaking and understanding)

    The rule is there for champs .. but looks like you simply stating he doesn't even know how the rule work .. for what purpose it applied at champ ..

    I think what makes you so disappointed is the reasoning
    Part where he says about lower league

    The most disappointing part is you're accusing me insulting someone
    No, YOU are the one suggesting it wasn't just a simple mistake while speaking "off the cuff".

    So YOU are the one who is suggesting he doesn't understand the situation.

    It isn't insulting to suggest somebody made a mistake in what they said, but it IS insulting to suggest they don't actually understand what they are talking about.

    And there is no question, what he said at that point is one or the other. Because what he said only makes sense in the context of classic wars, not in the context of CWL.

    I suggest you stop digging here.

  10. #320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    I haven't seen a post suggesting that, so how you say "many" do, I don't know.

    Though I would suggest few in Masters are casual. And even in Crystal many are not.

    And of course, "competitive" and"casual" are not mutually exclusive.

    I'm responding pretty late to the party so just quoting a post that is semi-related to what I was going to say. My clan is in Crystal league, we're active and we care about winning, but we're also pretty casual. If we get promoted that's awesome, if we get demoted then whatever there's always next month. Even with that casual attitude towards CWL, I REALLY hate the spying nonsense and wish that the fix at Champions 1 level would be implemented at ALL levels. Why:

    First, rest assured that spying happens a LOT at lower levels. Very often, people don't even attempt to hide it - after all we're just in Crystal league. Every CWL we get applicants that are currently in a clan we're about to face, and we get low level applicants that join for a couple days then leave and you notice "oh hey wait now they're in a clan we just faced in CWL, oh well oops...". It happens a TON, mainly because it's super easy to do, and there's an advantage to be gained, so why not. If the reason Supercell hasn't fixed the problem is because they think it's not a problem at lower levels, then think again. It happens a TON.

    Second, why does it bother me? I don't even care all that much about winning/losing, but what REALLY bothers me is that my clan is dying out and without a working clan recruitment tool (I know it's a dead horse, but yeah it is badly needed yet completely useless), we rely on recruiting any rando's that want to join in the hope that ~5% will actually stick around and be decent players. But then for an entire week we're stuck in this annoying situation where we don't want to let people join, or we do let them join but everyone doesn't trust them because they might be a spy (not exactly the best situation to find yourself in as a new applicant). The whole thing just stinks all around and please just fix it. It makes absolutely no sense to me that they coded up the fix but didn't implement it.

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