Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Question: CWL Search Algo

  1. #1

    Question: CWL Search Algo

    I think the search algo is bugged.
    As our leader thinks if we search late then weaker clans will be matched to us. We're not that strong either, Crystal 2 and I'm TH12 on the 5th spot.

    Our seach is now timestamped 8 hours ago in the chats. It was searching up to the deadline of the signup period, it hit the deadline for sure. It made them go crazy and stuff, someone begging to cancel and start a search again, but the leader is too afraid that if he restart the search, the process will never beat the time and will cause us not joining the CWL.

    But surprisingly, when I was looking at the events tab the timer is at 8 days left, meaning the 2-day signup is over, I don't know what will happen and I'm quite busy; When I logged in later, we have the CWL matchups.

    What just happened there? Can someone explain it?

    My guess is that it is bugged, that it is trying hard to find a match war weight in our league, but when the timer ends it just throw a catch and match whatever it finds.

    Thoughts and theories will be appreciated. It was a very anxious experience, and I already prepared myself to face that we have no cwl this season during that moment I logged out. Just avoid doing late searches.
    Last edited by Disenchanted11; June 3rd, 2020 at 10:25 AM.

  2.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Disenchanted11 View Post
    I think the search algo is bugged.
    As our leader thinks if we search late then weaker clans will be matched to us. We're not that strong either, Crystal 2 and I'm TH12 on the 5th spot.

    Our seach is now timestamped 8 hours ago in the chats. It was searching up to the deadline of the signup period, it hit the deadline for sure. It made them go crazy and stuff, someone begging to cancel and start a search again, but the leader is too afraid that if he restart the search, the process will never beat the time and will cause us not joining the CWL.

    But surprisingly, when I was looking at the events tab the timer is at 8 days left, meaning the 2-day signup is over, I don't know what will happen and I'm quite busy; When I logged in later, we have the CWL matchups.

    What just happened there? Can someone explain it?

    My guess is that it is bugged, that it is trying hard to find a match war weight in our league, but when the timer ends it just throw a catch and match whatever it finds.

    Thoughts and theories will be appreciated. It was a very anxious experience, and I already prepared myself to face that we have no cwl this season during that moment I logged out. Just avoid doing late searches.
    Supercell have a deliberately introduced a delay on searching in order to prevent collusion by clans searching at the saem time.

    I don't know the exact details, but AIUI, when you start search, you are put in a pool. When there are quite a lot of clans in the pool (a lot more than 8), it takes 8 of them (or a few groups of 8) and puts them in a league.

    There is NO attempt to find a match war weight. CWL does not match on weights, TH levels or anything else. It is just a random selection.

    It is generally best to search fairly early if you want a quick match, because by the time you enter the pool if you start late, tere aren't very many others entering the search, and so it takes a long time for your pool to fill up.

    But at the end of the sign up period, all clans which have not yet been matched will be matched at that point - if necessary into a smaller league (i.e. If the number left is not an exact multiple of 8).

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    Supercell have a deliberately introduced a delay on searching in order to prevent collusion by clans searching at the saem time.

    I don't know the exact details, but AIUI, when you start search, you are put in a pool. When there are quite a lot of clans in the pool (a lot more than 8), it takes 8 of them (or a few groups of 8) and puts them in a league.

    There is NO attempt to find a match war weight. CWL does not match on weights, TH levels or anything else. It is just a random selection.

    It is generally best to search fairly early if you want a quick match, because by the time you enter the pool if you start late, tere aren't very many others entering the search, and so it takes a long time for your pool to fill up.

    But at the end of the sign up period, all clans which have not yet been matched will be matched at that point - if necessary into a smaller league (i.e. If the number left is not an exact multiple of 8).
    Oooh, there's a pool. That makes sense now. I still got the "catch" part, where it matches everything it can find at the end.

    Still a bug, I guess? Or a logical error? Why wait to match everyone at the end, if there's no factor like waiting for the best war weight match, then why not just match them as fast as possible?

    Really scary to be a buzzer beater. Avoid searching late is the best solution.

  4. #4
    Forum Hero Piper139's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    7,559
    Quote Originally Posted by Disenchanted11 View Post
    Oooh, there's a pool. That makes sense now. I still got the "catch" part, where it matches everything it can find at the end.

    Still a bug, I guess? Or a logical error? Why wait to match everyone at the end, if there's no factor like waiting for the best war weight match, then why not just match them as fast as possible?

    Really scary to be a buzzer beater. Avoid searching late is the best solution.
    It is waiting for a full pool. Not neccesarily waiting for the end. For example. Say the desired target is to fill a pool for 50 groupings of 8. That would be 400 clans. No idea what the actual numbers are by the way. So the pool fills up pretty quickly the first few times, more slowly later as fewer clans are left to join, so, if its stuck at around 350, it keeps waiting until the end to catch any stragglers. As Ajax said, the idea is to prevent allied clans from searching at the same time and getting in the same group to help each other get more stars.
    sig by dharmaraj in sig shop
    Clan: MN ICE #8UCRP8CL
    IGN: Piper139 #2PQQR9Q22

  5.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Disenchanted11 View Post
    Oooh, there's a pool. That makes sense now. I still got the "catch" part, where it matches everything it can find at the end.

    Still a bug, I guess? Or a logical error? Why wait to match everyone at the end, if there's no factor like waiting for the best war weight match, then why not just match them as fast as possible?

    Really scary to be a buzzer beater. Avoid searching late is the best solution.
    It waits for the pool to be full.

    Towards the end, most clans have already signed up, so the pool fills very slowly.

    The reason for the pool and not just immediate matching is to avoid people spinnig at the same time to get the opponents they want.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Posts
    238
    https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...-miscellaneous

    Have a look at that link.

    While it doesn't tell you anything about correlation between clan 'skills' and start times, it does give good insight into when the bulk of a particular league spin the bottle.

  7. #7
    Forum Superstar joshsgrandad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    NE England, UK.
    Posts
    3,931
    SC guarantees anybody that wishes to play cwl the opportunity to play..
    The pools are a natural buffer to ensure as much as possible that collusion will be avoided.
    There is evidence that once the pool(s) fill, they/it does not empty completely each time, which may give rise to slightly longer search times for some, even in the more populated tiers..
    But once the window shuts, everyone left is matched at that point..

    Nothing to worry about, except for those that panic and try to reset as the window shuts..
    Only those actively searching at the end will get a match, those in mid reset will miss out.

    As for when to start that search.. My anecdotal evidence shows that the matches tend to be a little easier when spinning on day 2..
    My reasoning is that the more adept war orientated clans have already done their spin early in order to get things started (and return to their back to back regular wars)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Piper139 View Post
    It is waiting for a full pool. Not neccesarily waiting for the end. For example. Say the desired target is to fill a pool for 50 groupings of 8. That would be 400 clans. No idea what the actual numbers are by the way. So the pool fills up pretty quickly the first few times, more slowly later as fewer clans are left to join, so, if its stuck at around 350, it keeps waiting until the end to catch any stragglers. As Ajax said, the idea is to prevent allied clans from searching at the same time and getting in the same group to help each other get more stars.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    It waits for the pool to be full.

    Towards the end, most clans have already signed up, so the pool fills very slowly.

    The reason for the pool and not just immediate matching is to avoid people spinnig at the same time to get the opponents they want.
    Thanks for this info!
    Sadly one needs to visit the forum and stumble upon threads like this, or create one, to know how it works.

    It's not really an essential thing to know though. We just need to start a search and wait, that's it. The less we know, the less we can come up with loopholes.

    But the feeling you get is like downloading something without a progress bar, no "size downloaded / total size" indicator.

    Indicators would be nice, something like "current pool / total pool" will do the job.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Digging another tunnel in the data mine
    Posts
    6,705
    Quote Originally Posted by Disenchanted11 View Post
    Still a bug, I guess? Or a logical error? Why wait to match everyone at the end, if there's no factor like waiting for the best war weight match, then why not just match them as fast as possible?
    To expand on what the other said - it's to avoid 8 clans all hitting start at once and being able to deliberately match each other. So there's always 200* clans in the search pool for each league. And in every single league the last 200 clans will be matched at the end. This happens in about 2 to 3 minutes after the search officially closes. For upper leagues this is a big chunk of the league. My clan started search in champ 2 with 25 hours remaining and waited to the end.

    Really scary to be a buzzer beater. Avoid searching late is the best solution.
    It seems scary. But really, all clans will match at the end. The system is deliberately holding back hundreds of clans to the end so that it has a big enough pot to stir that clans cannot collude. You will match. The only slight risk is there is maybe a 5% chance of ending up in a group of only 6 clans if matching at the end.
    It would help if SC explained some of this. Every single month there are multiple people panicking on here that they won't match.

    The info in the link Munitor posted is very old, but still mostly valid. Regarding skill and times - there seemed to be (back then) a slight drop off in skills for later starts in lower leagues (slightly lower overall scores, more missed attacks), but the difference isn't big and the random variation between groups is larger, so you could still get a tough group in a late match.

    (*) it's not actually 200; it's more complicated than that I think. But for most purposes this is close to the truth. Just don't try and gather 250 clans to try and flood the pool and self-match - it won't work well.

  10. #10
    Forum Superstar joshsgrandad's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    NE England, UK.
    Posts
    3,931
    Quote Originally Posted by Disenchanted11 View Post
    Thanks for this info!
    Sadly one needs to visit the forum and stumble upon threads like this, or create one, to know how it works.

    It's not really an essential thing to know though. We just need to start a search and wait, that's it. The less we know, the less we can come up with loopholes.

    But the feeling you get is like downloading something without a progress bar, no "size downloaded / total size" indicator.

    Indicators would be nice, something like "current pool / total pool" will do the job.
    But if the pool doesnt completely empty, that bar will go from full to almost empty again..
    It is enough to know that if you are spinning you are in..
    Start/end times cant be planned due to the total randomness of the process, unless you spin early in a middle tier.. Then its likely you will match within minutes, no matter what is happening, due to the sheer volume of traffic.

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •