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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Next Clan Games - April 22 - 28 - Details Here

  1. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    We are being told that by players - as a way to get round the failings in the SC tool. It isn't something SC are suggesting we do.
    I did say players

  2. #232
    Forum Veteran SumoSloth's Avatar
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    Oh come on, you expect me to believe that this put anyone at a huge disadvantage??? Sometimes I feel like you (SC) are treating us like naive idiots. The garbage hypothetical that Darian gave is exactly that, garbage. This was not a loophole that needed to be fixed like "engineering", I don't buy that analogy for a second. This "bug" in play for 2-1/2 years negatively affected no ones game play and was openly talked about for a long time with never even the slightest hint that it wasn't working as intended. Even the engineering "fix" was something that was rolled out in stages and not taken away completely so as not to affect their gameplay. Never once did I see someone complain that this advantage hurt their clan while benefiting others. As a matter fact, I'm willing to bet that even unintentionally this benefited nearly every clan at some point. Even the busiest clans will have small periods of time where no one is on, cue the refresh (Oh how exciting we logged on and we can all do the challenges again).

    So, sorry Darian, I'm not buying it. I think this is a very poor excuse which is half-hearted attempt to cover up a major botch by SC. Fixing things that are not actual problems looks really bad, when there are many problems in the game that actually could use the time and energy put into fixing them. Please in the future don't treat us like we are ignorant little kids. This was a major screw up by SC and attempts to justify with outlandish claims about who it's hurting do nothing but hurt your reputation as a legitimate source of information. What a joke.
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  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] View Post
    Telling people to not play the game and close the app is just...bad.
    This doesn't make sense considering SC forces people to "not play the game and close the app" every 4 hours for their PB.

  4. #234
    Forum Superstar JohnnyPC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] View Post
    Telling people to not play the game and close the app is just...bad. If the amount of time I have to play is limited and the Clan is telling me not to play just so they can take advantage of a loophole is not ideal. You should never have to tell someone to quit the game in order to do something (personal breaks are different and not a valid comparison).
    The thing is, nobody thought this was a loophole. We thought this was a feature, by design, and we thought it was a good design. If anyone came to the forums to complain that they couldn't do any of the available tasks, we'd tell them to have everyone log out and the tasks would recycle. Everyone was happy. In our eyes, nobody was taking advantage of anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] View Post
    So why did it take so long to fix? Many of us are in international Clans who have members on at all times of the day and from our play perspective, we saw the tasks functioning as they were supposed to since we never saw the offline refresh happening. It wasn't until recently that it was observed and recognized as a bug.
    This part baffles me. As I mentioned above, this feature was well known in the community. Or at least in the portions of the community where I socialize. Task recycling was common knowledge. You're telling us that literally everyone at Supercell was oblivious to the existence of this feature for this whole time? That's... um... scary...

    Sorry about this response. I told myself I wasn't going to respond, because I don't envy your position at all... having to run interference over this. Even right now I'm strongly debating deleting what I wrote and just letting it go. The forumers have made their point and we're starting to beat a dead horse. Alas... I'm not strong enough to delete. Posting.
    Last edited by JohnnyPC; April 24th, 2020 at 02:39 PM.

  5. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] View Post
    We've been discussing the Clan Games frustration as a team and I do have a little bit of information to share. First, let me discuss the bug and why it was necessary to fix.

    When we introduced the Clan Games way back in yesteryear, the task system was always meant to be a strategic and collaborative effort between Clan members. The refresh that happens offline is the bug as it was never intended to happen that way. So why did the refresh happen? As long as Clan members were online, the database logic dictating the tasks functioned nominally - or as intended. However, when all members were offline, the logic would 'hiccup' and refresh.

    That sounds harmless enough, right? Well...not really...because it created an unfair scenario for many Clans affected by this. First, if you were one of the Clans aware of this hiccup, you could strategically all go offline for 10 minutes and wait for the tasks to refresh so you could wait for higher point tasks to appear and cherry pick the ones you want. Again that sounds harmless, right? Well...if your Clan was one that had players from various time zones and always had at least one member on at any point, you never got to "take advantage" of that refresh. So you were "stuck" using the Clan Games tasks the system gave you, which is exactly how the system works now after the bug fix.

    It was an unfair advantage some Clans used while other Clans couldn't do it. That is why it needed to be fixed.

    So why did it take so long to fix? Many of us are in international Clans who have members on at all times of the day and from our play perspective, we saw the tasks functioning as they were supposed to since we never saw the offline refresh happening. It wasn't until recently that it was observed and recognized as a bug.

    However, we also understand that the fix that closed the loophole many were used to using did leave a bad taste in a lot of players' mouths. I also understand saying "it left a bad taste" is an understatement for how many feel.
    First of all, thank you for acknowledging the errors in both making the change and for immediately making your interim fix. That fix fooled me into thinking the problem had been fixed but after I used up all the newly boosted challenges, there were a paltry few left for my clan mates.

    I think I would have to take issue with the 'reason' the so called bug needed to be fixed. First of all, I am unaware of any complaints in the past by anyone on here that there were too many unattainable or low point challenges in previous clan games. Given the proclivity of forum members to complain about everything that they don't like, I find it hard to believe that there were many, if any, clans that suffered like we all are now. My clan is international and we have players from India, Iran, Egypt, Nigeria, England, France, Holland, United States, and Colombia. Our challenges routinely refreshed without any strategy. In the absence of any outcry, I find the 'bad taste' argument not particularly persuasive.

    While I understand why there may have been a communication issue regarding the changes, the scope of the new problem was clearly not anticipated by the dev team. If so, they would have both discussed the changes with the community staff and would have made sure the changes were in the patch notes. The problem would have easily been noticed by most active players.

    If the Clan Games task system was intended to be a 'strategic and collaborative effort' then the original design was flawed. A clan of TH 11s and higher would slowly have their challenges reduced to attacking TH 6s, 7s, 8s, 9s and 10s and other challenges. There is nothing strategic about trashing bad challenges. Furthermore, at no time has anyone from Supercell communicated this concern in all of its excellent extensive community outreach.

    I am afraid the 'fix' was a solution in search of a problem. If Clan Games is going to be redesigned to be a strategic and collaborative effort, it will require a major overhaul. A much simpler solution if there is concern about clans getting unfair advantages would be to do a global reset at predesignated intervals.

  6. #236
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    OMG, i have never seen a more loaded reason...... don't understand why you keep calling it a loophole when it's purely a part of game play. isn't trashing or taking a task and let it expire the same thing?!
    and for those who have never noticed for 2 and a half years, it means they don't need it. they already have an advantage in the clan games for being a large clan so they don't need it! unfair?! unbelievable....
    i'm outta here adios.

    [QUOTE='Darian[Supercell];12544345']
    That sounds harmless enough, right? Well...not really...because it created an unfair scenario for many Clans affected by this. First, if you were one of the Clans aware of this hiccup, you could strategically all go offline for 10 minutes and wait for the tasks to refresh so you could wait for higher point tasks to appear and cherry pick the ones you want. Again that sounds harmless, right? Well...if your Clan was one that had players from various time zones and always had at least one member on at any point, you never got to "take advantage" of that refresh. So you were "stuck" using the Clan Games tasks the system gave you, which is exactly how the system works now after the bug fix.

    It was an unfair advantage some Clans used while other Clans couldn't do it. That is why it needed to be fixed.
    Last edited by dbl4210; April 24th, 2020 at 03:15 PM.

  7. #237
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    Can I make suggestions for challenges here? Not so much adding a new challenge but removing some that are impossible for high level clans.

    We have clan set at TH9 minimum. And sometimes TH10. Yet we keep getting TH6-7 challenges which we all know we are never going to see a TH that low offered. I now have to wait an hour to choose another challenge after dumping another TH6 challenge!

    Please set challenges according to clan settings!

    Same may apply to low clans that don't have high trophy accounts. They may not like seeing Titan and Legend challenges when nobody is above Crystal!

  8. #238
    Millennial Club Rizzob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyPC View Post
    This part baffles me. As I mentioned above, this feature was well known in the community. Or at least in the portions of the community where I socialize. Task recycling was common knowledge. You're telling us that literally everyone at Supercell was oblivious to the existence of this feature for this whole time? That's... um... scary...
    I'm speaking only for myself here - but I was unaware that there was a refresh until about a couple of months ago in one of the clan games threads (I'm guessing on the timing, and my memory isn't always that great). I do remember reading about it because before this I was convinced someone in my clan was trashing the legends league task, as I'm the only LL player in my clan.

    I can see how this was easy to not notice. I wasn't keeping track of all the tasks on the board and who was taking what. So when I logged back in after a bit, how would I have known that the tasks refreshed rather than they were taken and/or trashed?

    Perhaps it was just me being oblivious - but I get how perhaps it went unnoticed for some time. And, who knows when they really noticed it - this may not have been the highest priority thing in their backlog, and it may have been some time between when they detected it and when the fix went to market.

    OTOH, I don't really buy the "disadvantage" argument, either. But honestly in my mind it's a moot point, I get that the refresh is not how they intended it to work. Ultimately, as Noc and others have pointed out, the user problem is that the tasks stay on the board too long and the primary method of getting rid of unwanted tasks (trashing them) is a bit too punitive and doesn't scale well. There's a few different ways they can solve this problem, in the meantime increasing boosted tasks will hopefully be fine as a band-aid.
    Last edited by Rizzob; April 24th, 2020 at 03:44 PM. Reason: rewording a confusing sentence

  9. #239
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    Darien. I’m sorry but you are totally wrong on this idea.

    I’m sure there are people trying to exploit this but I don’t see how this harms anyone. You brought up engineering. That actually harmed clans in war for a very long time. How you get 50 k points in a game is not against someone else and harming their game play in a 24 hour war.

    You are harming clans with only th 13s or only low level clans that cannot possibly complete tasks in the list. Especially later in games when they can’t be trashed as people reach 4000k points.

    You picked something that in 3 years I have never seen a complaint on. Ever. Some tasks are better than others. Some are easy. Some are not. Personally I’d rather have every task be get loot. There are way too many tasks that are possible (and many that are impossible for a specific clan to complete) to implement this kind of change.

    I have a feeling most clans are not on 24\7 and trying to game the system by conspiring to be off 10 minutes as you allege. I’m sure a few do but that does no harm to anyone. Most are casual play when you can people. We are. That’s your base and most likely those you buy the most gems. As a PR move upsetting them is not wise. It just makes the game not fun at all. Our clan comes on. Completes what they can a few at a time. Usually will leave the quests they can’t do. Finish the ones they can. Come back 4-5 hours later as life allows. Then work on the new ones.

    coming on and seeing the same bad or un completable quests just makes our clan not want to play. That’s not good for anyone.

    if it was a bug it was a good one for the game. The cure was worse than the disease in this case.

  10. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darian[Supercell] View Post
    We've been discussing the Clan Gam...
    Thanks for the info.

    -It's an unfair advantage for clans with siege machines to be matched with clans without siege machines in war.

    -It's an unfair advantage for a clan to have max cc (defensive and offensive) troops vs a clan that doesn't.

    -It's an unfair advantage for clans with every TH level during clan games vs max only clans or theme clans like th7 only.

    -It's an unfair advantage for clans that play both Main and BB during clan games vs those that only play 1 or the other.

    -It's an unfair advantage for players in low leagues to complete clan games vs players in higher leagues.

    -It's an unfair advantage to stay in leagues and farm dead bases vs live bases.

    If you look for "unfair advantages" you're going to find them. They are everywhere. All over the world; under rocks, in alleys in empty milk cartons. When something like the refresh system in clan games is "fixed" Sure the current problem sucks. However there are much bigger implications. Why would players invest time into a game that labels things "unfair advantages" and takes them away without warning. It's a risky precedent for some players.

    What are you going to take away next? You already took away the TH snipe system, engineering, low level pushers and now you seem to be targeting clans with few players with multiple accounts. It's like you're trying to herd your players to play "YOUR" way. It's not a games job to dictate how a player plays. You provide the tools and the players create the gaming atmosphere. The unique ways players create systems DEFINES that game. You're attacks on th snipers, low level pushers, engineers and now multi account clans is offensive. If you want a boring cookie cutter game life then go for it. Don't push it off on your players. It's like the SC coc team doesn't know how to have fun. There is more than 1 way to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Some ways are more fun than others. Live a little, grow outside of that box. Stop trying to push your way, it's boring. You should feel lucky you had players that took your game to levels you couldn't do yourself. Instead you attack them. shame!
    Last edited by ayih; April 24th, 2020 at 05:59 PM.

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