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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Weight on war streak.

  1. #1
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    Weight on war streak.

    When are you guys going to fix this war match issue? It's hard to believe after all these years you guys still don't have a fair system for war match. All this talk about fixing this and that and it's still horrible.

    Every time our win streak goes up, we get slammed with a mismatch. EVERY TIME!!! Seriously guys. Stop adding weight to win streak. It creates unfair matches! How hard is that to see?

    Last war we had a 3 win streak and got mismatched, but managed to win. This war we have 4 win and the match is so lopsided it's ridiculous!!!! Seriously guys. Stop that.
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  2. #2
    Forum Veteran Thegreatpuma's Avatar
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    Unlikely that your streak is causing this. It's more likely it's something int he lineup you are running.

    Looking at the only war available on cocp.it (war vs Fat Hog Riders), you have a large advantage at TH13. In and of itself this might be meaningless, but I would be interested in why you think it is a mismatch.
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  3. #3
    I don't know what the weight is given to "recent war success" but if it is anything at all, it is too much in my opinion.

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  4. #4
    Forum Veteran Thegreatpuma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    I don't know what the weight is given to "recent war success" but if it is anything at all, it is too much in my opinion.
    FWIW OPs longest war won streak is in the fifties lol

  5. #5
    Forum Superstar joshsgrandad's Avatar
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    They never actually confirmed what is meant by recent war performance, nor how much influence it has over the war spin, but it is likely not limited to win streak, and I have never seen anything alter the spin result dramatically apart from a roster break down change.

    So far as weight goes.. A basic 13 can be seen to be similar to a 12, as shown in your wars where a 13 is lying below 12s..
    This is because the weight gain obtained from the jump from 12 to 13 is minimal (It is very rare to see a 12 below an 11 because of the weight jump to 12, caused by the giga)..
    After that, it is purely down to the level build state (how advanced) or the level of rushing..
    A strategically rushed base is still preferable to an early build base for regular war, as well as cwl.. It is the new way to engineer if you like, as all the important elements will be there, but none of the filler..

    The war you state you won despite being mismatched actually contained equal 12/13 on both sides, and also equal th11 numbers.. Although 2 of theirs look like 9.11 bases.. Once again, strategically advanced, and likely with a max 11 army..

    Sometimes, in order to stay ahead of the curve, the mindset needs to change.. If a clan is rigid with the maxer route (I notice you have 0% engineering), then the weight of those unused troops, the useless but heavy defences, and the slow upgrade pace is going to count against you, if you draw a more streamlined clan..
    It may seem like a mismatch, but the likelihood is that the war weights will be closer than one would think..
    Maxing (as we know it)should only be done once the level build reaches a mature stage IMO, not from the hall jump stage.

    But a 3 or 4 win streak?.. How would these clans ever win a match that have triple digit streaks?.. The weight penalty would be so severe that all the manipulation in the world couldnt help them.

    EDIT.. I feel Puma has seen much the same as me, and reached the same conclusions.
    EDIT 2.. Brings back memories of yesteryear, when a theory about that magical 5 streak cut off point was pretty convincing to many.
    Last edited by joshsgrandad; February 19th, 2020 at 10:14 PM.

  6.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #6
    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    I don't know what the weight is given to "recent war success" but if it is anything at all, it is too much in my opinion.
    Given that SC have stated that it does have an effect, you didn't need the "if it is anything at all"

    I have no idea why you feel that way though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grill View Post
    But when something like an update is to be expected all stupid breaks loose and it just becomes an idiot storm of catastrophic proportion.
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  7.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma View Post
    FWIW OPs longest war won streak is in the fifties lol
    But tahyt was back in 2016, which I think was before they introduced the performance metric into matching.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grill View Post
    But when something like an update is to be expected all stupid breaks loose and it just becomes an idiot storm of catastrophic proportion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Maverick View Post
    Any more balance to th10 will make th10 broken...
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  8.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #8
    Quote Originally Posted by iBork View Post
    When are you guys going to fix this war match issue? It's hard to believe after all these years you guys still don't have a fair system for war match. All this talk about fixing this and that and it's still horrible.

    Every time our win streak goes up, we get slammed with a mismatch. EVERY TIME!!! Seriously guys. Stop adding weight to win streak. It creates unfair matches! How hard is that to see?

    Last war we had a 3 win streak and got mismatched, but managed to win. This war we have 4 win and the match is so lopsided it's ridiculous!!!! Seriously guys. Stop that.
    They will almost certainly never "Fix" it, because it isn't broken.

    You don't like it, but that isn't the same thing at all as being broken.

    It was probably win streaks like yours back in 2016 that caused them to bring in the performance element, as they probably see such win streaks as not being particularly healthy for the game.

    But it still shouldn't be acusing mismatches, it should just mean you are more likely to be matched with clans with similar recent performance.

    The mismatches are much more likely caused by something in your lineup.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grill View Post
    But when something like an update is to be expected all stupid breaks loose and it just becomes an idiot storm of catastrophic proportion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Maverick View Post
    Any more balance to th10 will make th10 broken...
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    Given that SC have stated that it does have an effect, you didn't need the "if it is anything at all"

    I have no idea why you feel that way though.
    I included the "if it is anything at all" because it seems they regularly tinker with the matchmaker and I don't know if they are still including that or not. Perhaps since they didn't announce they aren't, that means they are, but they have made significant changes in the past without an announcement on the matchmaker.

    As for why I feel that way, I like that the wars are weighted for offense/defense and I think that is enough. A bad clan should lose if they are bad. They shouldn't get to face easier opponents as a reward for being bad. If they were to introduce some sort of trophy system where you go up or down with wins, then I'd see it making sense to factor recent war performance (the trophy system would do it automatically). As long as the only judge of a clan's war success is their war record, it should be a random (but weighted) match without regard to whether the clan is successful or not. My war record should reflect my clan's success against the average clan, with some weak, some strong, many average, resulting in an average over the long term. It shouldn't be artificially easier or harder due to my clan's success or lack thereof. I've felt that way ever since they brought up the recent war performance factor. I've never liked it in a system where wins/losses is the only measure.

    Contact SC here. Click here for how trophies are calculated. Click here for how cc troops deploy ( it depends) and more here. How is war map placement of max halls determined?, see answer here. Thank you SC for the new legends! However, how to fight collusion here.

  10. #10
    Forum Superstar joshsgrandad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    They will almost certainly never "Fix" it, because it isn't broken.

    You don't like it, but that isn't the same thing at all as being broken.

    It was probably win streaks like yours back in 2016 that caused them to bring in the performance element, as they probably see such win streaks as not being particularly healthy for the game.

    But it still shouldn't be acusing mismatches, it should just mean you are more likely to be matched with clans with similar recent performance.

    The mismatches are much more likely caused by something in your lineup.
    iBork is a name I recognise from way back..
    It will be good if he elaborates on what he is seeing, as we tend to simply follow the clan tag to cocp.it to have a look at any open wars..
    And those wars only show hall colour.. You cant open those accounts on the site.. So there is too much involved to do anything except make a snap decision, based on the forum post, and the way those halls line up.

    in this case, there are only 2 open wars.. The last one appears equal, so far as hall break down goes.. But keeping in mind the build state within that hall on each account could be anything..
    The 2nd one, at the bottom, suggests they either drew roster engineers or rushers, since their hall placement is very erratic, and they also carry more of pretty much all halls at the higher weights.. Which hazards a guess of some sort of rushing in play..

    To touch on the 53 win streak.. I agree with you, it was back in 2016.. Ones mind quickly switches to offensively rushed engineering..
    Anyone whom was a capable attacker, and was willing to field a roster that contained one or two heavy anchors, followed by offensively lop sided bases, was onto a winner back in the day.. The very thing that drew me to the forums..
    Just prior to lop siding, the forte was to field a roster full of perma max.. Once again, an almost insurmountable advantage could be gained with this method, since being at any disadvantage was impossible, given how the match maker was working at the time (which of course seems to have led to the catastrophic change that allowed lop siding thru the door).

    But each to their own.. and iBorks observations have brought a topic back to the table that hasnt been discussed in a while now..
    His findings could well be an integral part as to how the current MMA is working.



    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    I included the "if it is anything at all" because it seems they regularly tinker with the matchmaker and I don't know if they are still including that or not. Perhaps since they didn't announce they aren't, that means they are, but they have made significant changes in the past without an announcement on the matchmaker.

    As for why I feel that way, I like that the wars are weighted for offense/defense and I think that is enough. A bad clan should lose if they are bad. They shouldn't get to face easier opponents as a reward for being bad. If they were to introduce some sort of trophy system where you go up or down with wins, then I'd see it making sense to factor recent war performance (the trophy system would do it automatically). As long as the only judge of a clan's war success is their war record, it should be a random (but weighted) match without regard to whether the clan is successful or not. My war record should reflect my clan's success against the average clan, with some weak, some strong, many average, resulting in an average over the long term. It shouldn't be artificially easier or harder due to my clan's success or lack thereof. I've felt that way ever since they brought up the recent war performance factor. I've never liked it in a system where wins/losses is the only measure.
    Your consistency on the subject places you above reproach in many respects on the topic of RWP..
    i get where you are coming from, when saying a bad clan should not get a leg up to assist them.. It would become a handicapped system..
    But at best, the RWP will only be a factor amongst many that is used when war matching.. It would only adjust one specific parameter within the algo, and only to whatever degree they decided to adopt.. To use a trophy system would completely segregate clans by skill, and take away any real randomness from the spin.. I know you only suggest this would make it more certain, and I agree.. But it would take away most of the roster building skill that many enjoy as part of war.

    I think you get your feelings across well, but the last sentence may well draw some attention..
    In reality, cwl is a system that relies far more on win/loss than the regular MMA ever did, so far as I have seen.
    Last edited by joshsgrandad; February 20th, 2020 at 07:11 AM.

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