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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Why is intentionally losing encouraged?

  1. #1

    Why is intentionally losing encouraged?

    Just my opinion, but any time a game has a matchmaking system that encourages large numbers of players (not just the ones trolling to grief people, or win-trading to outright cheat) to intentionally lose and keep their rating low, that is a hallmark of bad game design. So my question, is why does no one seem to think it's a problem that anyone below Legends league is basically required to intentionally lose repeatedly and stay in Crystal/Masters, if they want to get enough loot to grow their base?

    Shouldn't something be done to make Champions and Titans league actually be worth it? It's really stupid that I can farm 10x more gold/elixir/DE at 2000 rating than at 3400 rating (where I belong if I'm not intentionally losing to sandbag my rating). I really hate having to intentionally lose repeatedly, but I would be an idiot not to do it.

  2. #2
    Forum Champion Piper139's Avatar
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    Call me an idiot but I do just fine in titan1 as a th13. Also dropped no lower than champs as a 12. Depends on your play style. If you want to farm dead bases with partial armies in grind sessions, lower is the way to go. If you prefer using war style armies, higher works. I prefer to hit, fill requests, reload and come back later so high leagues with the extra bonus loot works better.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piper139 View Post
    Call me an idiot but I do just fine in titan1 as a th13. Also dropped no lower than champs as a 12. Depends on your play style. If you want to farm dead bases with partial armies in grind sessions, lower is the way to go. If you prefer using war style armies, higher works. I prefer to hit, fill requests, reload and come back later so high leagues with the extra bonus loot works better.
    I do the same as Piper, I waffle between T3 and legends and I have no trouble upgrading. love the bonuses up here, your army is paid for pretty much.
    Last edited by Tosti111; January 20th, 2020 at 12:07 AM.

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    Pro Member toofinedog's Avatar
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    The incentives to move up include a higher win bonus, a higher star bonus, a longer guard, and of course GLORY.

    Inactive bases tend to drift downward and accumulate a lot of collector loot, so an unfortunate side effect of that is opportunists will drop to take advantage and/or to hide their own resources from better attackers. I don’t think it’s encouraged. The nature of trophy calculation with wins and losses causes this to happen.

    For example using a different system, in Brawl Stars, once you reach a higher rank, you remain in that rank no matter how much you drop below that rank. You get nothing for reaching the rank itself except a special currency at certain ranks that can only be earned once. This means there is no incentive to drop, and the effect is only negative (having to climb back up).

    If it worked like that in CoC, you could get to Champ then unload all your trophies down to Silver. You would matchmake with others in your trophy range because the difference between Silver and Champ would result in monstrous trophy gains that would no doubt break the game, and you’d presumably enjoy the benefits that come with Champ level bonuses by remaining in that league although you’re not actually there. That wouldn’t be fair.
    Last edited by toofinedog; January 20th, 2020 at 12:22 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member BigPokes's Avatar
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    I dropped to champs 3 in anticipation of the th13 update but ended up hanging out in titans 2-3 until I came back up to legends for the season bank fill.

    Titans 3 is the sweet spot for me for farming the dollars

  6.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #6
    Quote Originally Posted by homer3142 View Post
    Just my opinion, but any time a game has a matchmaking system that encourages large numbers of players (not just the ones trolling to grief people, or win-trading to outright cheat) to intentionally lose and keep their rating low, that is a hallmark of bad game design. So my question, is why does no one seem to think it's a problem that anyone below Legends league is basically required to intentionally lose repeatedly and stay in Crystal/Masters, if they want to get enough loot to grow their base?

    Shouldn't something be done to make Champions and Titans league actually be worth it? It's really stupid that I can farm 10x more gold/elixir/DE at 2000 rating than at 3400 rating (where I belong if I'm not intentionally losing to sandbag my rating). I really hate having to intentionally lose repeatedly, but I would be an idiot not to do it.
    Why do you feel it is "bad game design"?

    It is a game enjoyed by many millions of players every day, so there must be something good about the way it is designed.

    If you can pin down why you believe it bad, then we can better discuss around it.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tosti111 View Post
    I do the same as Piper, I waffle between T3 and legends and I have no trouble upgrading. love the bonuses up here, your army is paid for pretty much.
    I maybe should've mentioned, I'm at TH11 and also had the same experience at TH10. Even at TH10 I was at Champions II, but it just wasn't worth it - by intentionally losing down to Crystal/Masters, I could get SOOOO much more loot (after including the loot bonus). I prefer to push as high as possible, but that's just really stupid to do in this game unless you are high enough to make it to Legends.

  8. #8
    Forum Hero Phoenix1027's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by homer3142 View Post
    Just my opinion, but any time a game has a matchmaking system that encourages large numbers of players (not just the ones trolling to grief people, or win-trading to outright cheat) to intentionally lose and keep their rating low, that is a hallmark of bad game design. So my question, is why does no one seem to think it's a problem that anyone below Legends league is basically required to intentionally lose repeatedly and stay in Crystal/Masters, if they want to get enough loot to grow their base?

    Shouldn't something be done to make Champions and Titans league actually be worth it? It's really stupid that I can farm 10x more gold/elixir/DE at 2000 rating than at 3400 rating (where I belong if I'm not intentionally losing to sandbag my rating). I really hate having to intentionally lose repeatedly, but I would be an idiot not to do it.
    The beauty of this game is that you can succeed at high trophies and at low trophies. Both ranges just require different strategies. I'd say it's a great game design if it has diversity in playstyle, allowing casual players to hang low and encourage hardcore players to push high. If the game only encouraged and rewarded pushing trophies then I suspect thousands would have quit long ago. The skill level required to play at higher trophies would have force all of the casual players to find a different game.
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  9. #9
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    I actually have no issues playing up in Titans with my 12 or gobbing in crystal/masters. To me, the basic premise of the game is to raid more loot than what is taken thus upgrading or grinding your base's progression. But I might be in the minority, I dont play for glory but I play for entertainment,socializing and take my mind off of the real world daily grind n stresses...

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    Why do you feel it is "bad game design"?

    It is a game enjoyed by many millions of players every day, so there must be something good about the way it is designed.

    If you can pin down why you believe it bad, then we can better discuss around it.
    Oh for sure the game is well designed and very well balanced, overall. I'm a huge fan with very few complaints (this being one of the few). I just think this one particular aspect is badly balanced. I have to say that even this particular aspect of encouraging people to intentionally lose isn't all that badly balanced, since even when sandbagging your rating you still are penalized for attacking townhalls lower than you

    Just go look up the statistics on how often people drop a hero and then surrender - it's a fairly large percentage. Don't people think this is a problem if massive numbers of players are intentionally losing matches in order to sandbag their rating?

    My specific reason that I believe it is bad is that for every ~2 wins I get, I have to intentionally lose once or else it becomes nearly impossible to farm enough loot to build my base. I'm fine with losing when I have pushed my rating so high that I can only win ~50% of the time (e.g. builder base), but I don't like having to intentionally lose, it just feels wrong.

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