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  1. #121
    Forum Veteran Thegreatpuma's Avatar
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    I really think the th parity is even lower than you guys think. we just matched 1/5/2/5 with our 0/3/4/5. again their top base has both scatter shots and RC and their 12/13 both have crud heroes and rushed th9/10 walls. their 11s actually have better walls than the higher bases. we again have a fairly large hero advantage.

    I'm starting to think it might be time to bring purple toupee, my rushed donation 13, to see what happens.

    It's frustrating that we seem to be moving back toward curated builds getting a matchmaker advantage. honestly i wouldn't mind it so much if the th13 weren't being put opposite 12s. if our current opponent was 0/6 rather than 1/5, or at least hadn't added the new heavy defenses, it would not bother me so much.
    Last edited by Thegreatpuma; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:16 PM.

  2. #122
    Forum Superstar joshsgrandad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma View Post
    I really think the th parity is even lower than you guys think. we just matched 1/5/2/5 with our 0/3/4/5. again their top base has both scatter shots and RC and their 12/13 both have crud heroes and rushed th9/10 walls. their 11s actually have better walls than the higher bases. we again have a fairly large hero advantage.

    I'm starting to think it might be time to bring purple toupee, my rushed donation 13, to see what happens.

    It's frustrating that we seem to be moving back toward curated builds getting a matchmaker advantage. honestly i wouldn't mind it so much if the th13 weren't being put opposite 12s. if our current opponent was 0/6 rather than 1/5, or at least hadn't added the new heavy defenses, it would not bother me so much.
    My last 2 spins have sorta shown the same..
    You are more prone at the top because you war heavier, so there is more weight to push around..
    In my case, they have the bows and hall colours.. i have heroes and walls (and lots of experience at this level)..

    First lop sided war, they simply couldnt match cos they are typical rusher (their halls have exceeded their playing experience).
    This time, they either ran out of time to fill cc (fell asleep after work lol), or simply gave up after viewing the log and draw..
    16 hits for 48 stars so far.. Is childsplay with no cc to worry about..
    War itself is simply a side show tho.. Pity work then cwl is going to interrupt the spins.

    But it is a worrying trend for those that dont look for that advantage, and maybe also for those that do, since the matching pattern seems to be changing..

    Pleased to see Major posting.. Our top two guys in the same thread about matching (dont give too much away guys)..
    Now all we need is Frain lll crunching some numbers, and we are set.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Thegreatpuma View Post
    I really think the th parity is even lower than you guys think. we just matched 1/5/2/5 with our 0/3/4/5. again their top base has both scatter shots and RC and their 12/13 both have crud heroes and rushed th9/10 walls. their 11s actually have better walls than the higher bases. we again have a fairly large hero advantage.

    I'm starting to think it might be time to bring purple toupee, my rushed donation 13, to see what happens.

    It's frustrating that we seem to be moving back toward curated builds getting a matchmaker advantage. honestly i wouldn't mind it so much if the th13 weren't being put opposite 12s. if our current opponent was 0/6 rather than 1/5, or at least hadn't added the new heavy defenses, it would not bother me so much.
    Something has changed. Like I said earlier, we’ve had a top hall advantage the last two wars (3 th13s vs 2 th13s). Those are pretty well advanced th13s, but no SC, definitely not maxed. It could just be chance or it could be we stumbled onto an engineering advantage. Other than our th9 or th8 fillers, though, our bases continue to grow so it won’t lasts long even if that is the case.

    Contact SC here. Click here for how trophies are calculated. Click here for how cc troops deploy ( it depends) and more here. How is war map placement of max halls determined?, see answer here. Thank you SC for the new legends! However, how to fight collusion here.

  4. #124
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    I'm not a big fan of guessing, so instead I've thought about ways to estimate war weights.

    The experiment would go something like this:

    Assume sum of offense+defense weight on your side equals (or rather is within a threshold of) your opponents sum of offense+defense.

    Note all TH levels, all number and levels of buildings, all unlocked and levels of troops for either side separately.

    Do the above notation for various combination of war size, min/max TH and TH spread. (In practice one could focus entirely on TH9+ or some such, because its honestly irrelevant how many lvl 2 cannons a lvl 1 EA weighs).

    Put all of these noted values on vector form (would be massive in dimension) and do the linear solve.


    I don't personally have the spare time nor inclination to do it, but I think it's the best way to get accurate estimates.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Munitor View Post
    I'm not a big fan of guessing, so instead I've thought about ways to estimate war weights.

    The experiment would go something like this:

    Assume sum of offense+defense weight on your side equals (or rather is within a threshold of) your opponents sum of offense+defense.

    Note all TH levels, all number and levels of buildings, all unlocked and levels of troops for either side separately.

    Do the above notation for various combination of war size, min/max TH and TH spread. (In practice one could focus entirely on TH9+ or some such, because its honestly irrelevant how many lvl 2 cannons a lvl 1 EA weighs).

    Put all of these noted values on vector form (would be massive in dimension) and do the linear solve.


    I don't personally have the spare time nor inclination to do it, but I think it's the best way to get accurate estimates.
    You'd run into a little trouble with the fact that the weights are not linear. They at times depend on what else is on the base. Also, SC makes adjustments, so they change over time.

    I don't think it has to be that complicated for those who want to engineer. Don't build anything on offense you don't need to use in war. If you have multiple accounts at th10, for example, grow one to have one common offensive attack and the other to have a different common offensive attack. With both in war you probably are fine with both or if the base designs are tough for one you should at least be good to go with the other.

    Defense is harder, especially now that you can't upgrade halls without building everything. Gold weights provide some information, though I'm not convinced they are the accurate weights or at least that it is that simple. Opinions will differ on whether a certain defense is "worth the weight" and most importantly it depends on the entire roster, not any one account. That is why it takes a full team effort like the real good win streak engineers put forth in order to gain a significant advantage these days. The old days of just rushing offense ahead of defense or filling the bottom with th3s for big advantages are gone.
    Last edited by 2222; 4 Weeks Ago at 11:42 PM.

    Contact SC here. Click here for how trophies are calculated. Click here for how cc troops deploy ( it depends) and more here. How is war map placement of max halls determined?, see answer here. Thank you SC for the new legends! However, how to fight collusion here.

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    You'd run into a little trouble with the fact that the weights are not linear. They at times depend on what else is on the base. Also, SC makes adjustments, so they change over time.

    I don't think it has to be that complicated for those who want to engineer. Don't build anything on offense you don't need to use in war. If you have multiple accounts at th10, for example, grow one to have one common offensive attack and the other to have a different common offensive attack. With both in war you probably are fine with both or if the base designs are tough for one you should at least be good to go with the other.

    Defense is harder, especially now that you can't upgrade halls without building everything. Gold weights provide some information, though I'm not convinced they are the accurate weights or at least that it is that simple. Opinions will differ on whether a certain defense is "worth the weight" and most importantly it depends on the entire roster, not any one account. That is why it takes a full team effort like the real good win streak engineers put forth in order to gain a significant advantage these days. The old days of just rushing offense ahead of defense or filling the bottom with th3s for big advantages are gone.
    It is right that weights aren't very linear as an eagle on a defenseless base might weigh 30k but only 10k on a max 11. It would be hard for the normal clan to be able to have a good grasp on weights since everyone is close to max. We run 2 engineered clans so all those weights have crazy spreads, enough that we can compare with each other and be able to look at a base and know what their offense and defense weight is.

    I think it could be possible to take all the numbers and figure out what the progression of weight is compared to what else you have similar to what Munitar suggested. It would take a lot of work and SC does make little tweaks to the MM every once in a while on the back end with no notice.

  7. #127
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    War with my two weirdos and some babies in:

    Us: TH13, TH12, 5TH11, 8TH10, 4TH9, 2TH8, 2TH7, TH6, TH5
    Them: 3TH12, 5TH11, 8TH10, 4TH9, 2TH8, 3TH6

    My engineered TH11 max offence (except King L44), max hidden traps, one max cannon, 240 max walls, no other defences
    My rushed TH13 max TH, eagle, scattershots, TH12 infernos, teslas, ADs, TH11 xbows, other defences around TH8, walls TH9 King L36, Queen 40, GW 29, RC 5, all resources, barracks maxed
    Our TH12 maxed apart from a few walls and a couple of troops

    Their top TH12 was maxed apart from some walls, the other two TH12s were glorified TH11s. The rest of their bases were mostly very rushed, one engineered TH11 sitting in with the TH10s, hero levels low other than a handful of bases, all average attackers, they got stars because they dipped ... a few TH11s on to TH10s etc. Their TH12 79% my TH13 and 63% our near max TH12 with spammed edragons. Their whole top five used spammed edragon attacks and two starred our top 4 and 1* our #5 (tripled everything else). We tripled all their bases apart from #1 (88% from our TH12) and their #3 (94% from my TH13, would have been 3* but time failed because I mucked around on the CC kill for too long ).

    We won 73 to 69, they had about four different bases copied over and over throughout their line up. It didn’t feel as close as the end result suggests we had a few “it all went out the window” attacks in this war lol. We don’t generally dip unless we’ve had a complete mare and need to clean up, that’s usually my job, as we want to develop 3* capabilities at all TH levels and I had to do it this war I think the TH13/11 did offset things quite significantly

    I enjoyed it because I got to play with my TH13 and do something different with my TH11 on a safe TH10 hit

    I’ve just done another spin and we have two mid-level TH11s up top, 8 TH10s ... they have one max TH11, 8 TH10s ... TH9/8s fairly even, so it is again in our favour Maybe someone saw me whinging in here and told the MMA to play nicely with me for a while lol �� I think I’ve proved your point about the heavy weight middle sections is likely our issue and going to continue now as usual in the hope that it will even out as discussed previous posts

    As an aside, I know off topic, but forgive me, have you guys noticed any errant Queen behaviour? Our usually reliable L40 Queens are spending a lot of time shooting walls again these days ... haven’t noticed that going on for a while but several attacks last few wars have had near misses because of indecisive Queens. One went back and forth, back and forth between two sets of walls while the rest of the army marched onwards, I think she’d still be there but for some handy witches skellies breaking through

    Edit: If I have a question like that last paragraph, should I start a new thread? Sorry, still getting used to etiquette in here
    Last edited by Belinio; 3 Weeks Ago at 01:11 AM.
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  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Belinio View Post
    War with my two weirdos and some babies in:

    Us: TH13, TH12, 5TH11, 8TH10, 4TH9, 2TH8, 2TH7, TH6, TH5
    Them: 3TH12, 5TH11, 8TH10, 4TH9, 2TH8, 3TH6

    My engineered TH11 max offence (except King L44), max hidden traps, one max cannon, 240 max walls, no other defences
    My rushed TH13 max TH, eagle, scattershots, TH12 infernos, teslas, ADs, TH11 xbows, other defences around TH8, walls TH9 King L36, Queen 40, GW 29, RC 5, all resources, barracks maxed
    Our TH12 maxed apart from a few walls and a couple of troops

    Their top TH12 was maxed apart from some walls, the other two TH12s were glorified TH11s. The rest of their bases were mostly very rushed, one engineered TH11 sitting in with the TH10s, hero levels low other than a handful of bases, all average attackers, they got stars because they dipped ... a few TH11s on to TH10s etc. Their TH12 79% my TH13 and 63% our near max TH12 with spammed edragons. Their whole top five used spammed edragon attacks and two starred our top 4 and 1* our #5 (tripled everything else). We tripled all their bases apart from #1 (88% from our TH12) and their #3 (94% from my TH13, would have been 3* but time failed because I mucked around on the CC kill for too long ).

    We won 73 to 69, they had about four different bases copied over and over throughout their line up. It didn’t feel as close as the end result suggests we had a few “it all went out the window” attacks in this war lol. We don’t generally dip unless we’ve had a complete mare and need to clean up, that’s usually my job, as we want to develop 3* capabilities at all TH levels and I had to do it this war I think the TH13/11 did offset things quite significantly

    I enjoyed it because I got to play with my TH13 and do something different with my TH11 on a safe TH10 hit

    I’ve just done another spin and we have two mid-level TH11s up top, 8 TH10s ... they have one max TH11, 8 TH10s ... TH9/8s fairly even, so it is again in our favour Maybe someone saw me whinging in here and told the MMA to play nicely with me for a while lol �� I think I’ve proved your point about the heavy weight middle sections is likely our issue and going to continue now as usual in the hope that it will even out as discussed previous posts

    As an aside, I know off topic, but forgive me, have you guys noticed any errant Queen behaviour? Our usually reliable L40 Queens are spending a lot of time shooting walls again these days ... haven’t noticed that going on for a while but several attacks last few wars have had near misses because of indecisive Queens. One went back and forth, back and forth between two sets of walls while the rest of the army marched onwards, I think she’d still be there but for some handy witches skellies breaking through

    Edit: If I have a question like that last paragraph, should I start a new thread? Sorry, still getting used to etiquette in here
    Nice to see that your matches have improved a bit, it can be challenging in a normalish type clan to find what works and stay consistent. We have 3 clans and one of them is more maxxer type and that one is the most challenging to roster, sitting at around 80% win rate in last 50 wars and have at times been outmatched.

    It would be impossible for me to complain about matches and maybe that is a strength because we could only focus inward on what we can improve and that yields better results. I'm not saying you do, everyone's just discussing weights and such but it's most common.

    Focusing on the top being where you want it sounds like a good idea, if you were keen I would also suggest making notes about different lineups you use so you can reference back to them later on.

    I haven't noticed any errant queen behavior lately, generally when it comes to changing any troop behavior, SC will always post changes. I don't think you really need to make a thread, most topics veer a little bit.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorJohnson View Post
    Nice to see that your matches have improved a bit, it can be challenging in a normalish type clan to find what works and stay consistent. We have 3 clans and one of them is more maxxer type and that one is the most challenging to roster, sitting at around 80% win rate in last 50 wars and have at times been outmatched.

    It would be impossible for me to complain about matches and maybe that is a strength because we could only focus inward on what we can improve and that yields better results. I'm not saying you do, everyone's just discussing weights and such but it's most common.

    Focusing on the top being where you want it sounds like a good idea, if you were keen I would also suggest making notes about different lineups you use so you can reference back to them later on.

    I haven't noticed any errant queen behavior lately, generally when it comes to changing any troop behavior, SC will always post changes. I don't think you really need to make a thread, most topics veer a little bit.
    Yes, the last few have swung in our favour, the parity of THs is still off (even if now in our favour) and no doubt back to the wonkiness when I put all those heavier TH11s back in, but we’ll just deal with it now I know that’s the issue. They are what they are and we’re not going to stop maxing our bases. Got a few of the new TH12s/13s coming back into the fray after CWL, so looking forward to that and maybe seeing the parity/matches adjust themselves again I’m glad I kept engaging with you lot

    Tyvm for the response re Queens ... I’ll look a bit closer and keep an eye on it, maybe something I’m not seeing at normal speed that slowmo half speed will show up
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  10. #130
    Forum Superstar joshsgrandad's Avatar
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    Ah.. so the pure maxer has a one cannon wonder?..
    At least adding the lop siders made the wars easier on the eye.. damn engineer.

    To be fair, most wars will be pretty fair so far as weight goes (in the eyes of the MMA).. optimising is what makes reality bite tho..

    Agree that including newer halls will give a more pleasing visual appearance..
    But at least now you know how to optimise more if you start looking at that log.. And we all learn something new simply with our interaction.

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