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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Clan Recruitment Tool Improvements (December Update)

  1. #211
    Forum Veteran TerMinus Prime's Avatar
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    Cannot agree more, We should not see members in the list with full inboxes , not sure what is the point in having them in the list if we cant invite them

    #Dontincludefullinboxesclashersinthelist

    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    (although not as nice as search results that exclude players with full inboxes).

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  2. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by TerMinus Prime View Post
    Cannot agree more, We should not see members in the list with full inboxes , not sure what is the point in having them in the list if we cant invite them

    #Dontincludefullinboxesclashersinthelist
    The point in having them, is that if SC hid those players, then whenever you search the system would say "No results found" and people would complain that the system is totally broken. At least now it looks like the search is searching - even if people think it's flawed.

    There's presumably more people spamming invites than there are players to receive them. No amount of filtering resolves that.

    I would say it's a bit like the clouds issue: there used to be any number of "simple solutions" posted on here for how to shorten clouds, around shields, league ranges and stuff. But none would address the problem that if the top players could attack a near infinite number of targets, then you quickly run out of targets. Likewise invites: if players can just invite infinitely, then there is soon no-one left to invite. And like with clouds the solution is that the existing concept is fundamentally flawed, and the solution is to make changes to the underlying system, and not the actual target search (such as the Legends league 8-attack-per-day fixed system replacing the old hit-the-attack-button-when-you-like system)
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  3. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxDS View Post
    The point in having them, is that if SC hid those players, then whenever you search the system would say "No results found" and people would complain that the system is totally broken. At least now it looks like the search is searching - even if people think it's flawed.

    There's presumably more people spamming invites than there are players to receive them. No amount of filtering resolves that.

    I would say it's a bit like the clouds issue: there used to be any number of "simple solutions" posted on here for how to shorten clouds, around shields, league ranges and stuff. But none would address the problem that if the top players could attack a near infinite number of targets, then you quickly run out of targets. Likewise invites: if players can just invite infinitely, then there is soon no-one left to invite. And like with clouds the solution is that the existing concept is fundamentally flawed, and the solution is to make changes to the underlying system, and not the actual target search (such as the Legends league 8-attack-per-day fixed system replacing the old hit-the-attack-button-when-you-like system)

    I don't think that is the point. Choosing between players complaining the system is broken because no results found or complaining it is broken because they get a list of players with full in boxes either way is the same complaint. The difference with not having the full inbox list is I wouldn't waste the time of checking the player out, looking at the profile, visiting the clan if they are in one, etc. only to then find out when I send an invite that the time was wasted. At least if I got a result that said "no players found" I would know I need to adjust my search.

    I think the point is perhaps like fanatic says which is that the search is old, it isn't live.

    There is some filtering that could help. Players could have more control over who they get invites from. Let's say I only want invites from th13s that are in a clan that is level 10+. Now new players aren't spamming me with invites. Another location filter would help too. There could also be limits on who can send invites, such as a th4 can't invite a th13. I'd rather it be the reverse, though, that the th13 decides if they want invites from th4s.

    There are all sorts of improvements to the filter that would help a lot.

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  4. #214
    Pro Member higgsbosons's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    There are all sorts of improvements to the filter that would help a lot.
    No it won't. Like Onyx, said the system is fundamentally flawed. Players can send infinite invites to a limited pool of players.
    No filter or machine learning can solve this without fundamentally changing the system itself.

    And empty search results if you are looking for new members are psychologically much more frustrating than a list of players with mainly full inboxes and everyonce in a while one player you actually can invite.

  5. #215
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    I'd much prefer no players found than full inbox messages, that's not even something I would ever consider that would be a horrible intentional UX.. I said it before, but my guess is the list of folks get populated on regular intervals and cached so folks with Inbox that are full don't get removed until the next cache reset, but the #'s of requests is so high they get maxed out before that happens. Them negative to right the most basic of query lines ie "& inbox != full " seems very unlikely.... .....I mean the query already exist as it the check in place between successful invite and a full inbox response.
    Last edited by Tvsever; December 10th, 2019 at 05:17 PM.

  6. #216

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    I don't think that is the point. Choosing between players complaining the system is broken because no results found or complaining it is broken because they get a list of players with full in boxes either way is the same complaint.
    Indeed it's the same underlying problem. But this way it looks like it's doing something, even if people don't like it. If search never returned a single player no matter what you did, you would conclude that the search was fundamentally broken.

    The difference with not having the full inbox list is I wouldn't waste the time of checking the player out, looking at the profile, visiting the clan if they are in one, etc. only to then find out when I send an invite that the time was wasted. At least if I got a result that said "no players found" I would know I need to adjust my search.
    But the point is that no matter how you adjusted the search it would always return "no players found". Because every single player in the game would have a full inbox within a day or two.

    In the same way that the clouds were actually a (albeit unpopular) solution, not the problem: the number of desired attacks far exceeded the number of possible defences, so there had to be some mechanism to limit the attacks to equal the defences. And that rate limiting was clouds. At the moment the desire to send invites outstrips the inbox capacity. And the current limiting mechanism is that people can't wade through the "full inbox" messages to find the ones that aren't full, and give up. "Fixing" it just fills up any remaining inboxes and then there really are no targets left.

    -----------

    Having said that the system does seem to have implementation problems as well - I'm still not getting invites on my mini last time I checked. So the search seems odd, to say the least. But I suspect that no number of solutions to the search can fix the imbalance between players wanting to invite/recruit and the availability of players to be invited/recruited.
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  7. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxDS View Post
    Indeed it's the same underlying problem. But this way it looks like it's doing something, even if people don't like it. If search never returned a single player no matter what you did, you would conclude that the search was fundamentally broken.



    But the point is that no matter how you adjusted the search it would always return "no players found". Because every single player in the game would have a full inbox within a day or two.

    In the same way that the clouds were actually a (albeit unpopular) solution, not the problem: the number of desired attacks far exceeded the number of possible defences, so there had to be some mechanism to limit the attacks to equal the defences. And that rate limiting was clouds. At the moment the desire to send invites outstrips the inbox capacity. And the current limiting mechanism is that people can't wade through the "full inbox" messages to find the ones that aren't full, and give up. "Fixing" it just fills up any remaining inboxes and then there really are no targets left.

    -----------

    Having said that the system does seem to have implementation problems as well - I'm still not getting invites on my mini last time I checked. So the search seems odd, to say the least. But I suspect that no number of solutions to the search can fix the imbalance between players wanting to invite/recruit and the availability of players to be invited/recruited.

    no it's not the same, as clouds we're doing a continuous live search until it hits a match. This isn't, it goes out gets results and returns them it doesn't "spin" until it find what you're looking for, it's most likely cached data.

    Which when you think about it is why it also shows results for folks in clans, because if the data doesn't refresh right away so if someone joined a clan then it wouldn't know that until you query a specific user ,not pull a list of folks from the cache, or at least at the time of the cache reset which is why they didn't bother to "solve" for it as they knew it would be an issue either way.
    Last edited by Tvsever; December 10th, 2019 at 05:25 PM.

  8. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by higgsbosons View Post
    No it won't. Like Onyx, said the system is fundamentally flawed. Players can send infinite invites to a limited pool of players.
    No filter or machine learning can solve this without fundamentally changing the system itself.

    And empty search results if you are looking for new members are psychologically much more frustrating than a list of players with mainly full inboxes and everyonce in a while one player you actually can invite.
    I agree the system is flawed in many ways. I also agree there is no fix to the "in box full" problem if the system is not live and instead is pulling from some time in the past where the accounts didn't have full in boxes. I disagree with Onyx suggestion that SC could instead give us only players without full inboxes but are intentionally not doing that because players would complain it is broken.

    As I stated in my post that you replied to but skipped part of, it would also require filters that place limits on those invites. Perhaps th12s can limit their invites to only th12s+ and clan level 12+ or whatever. Location limitations.

    I also disagree completely with the statement that a result saying "none found" is better psychologically than a result that suggests some were found and after a bunch of wasted time I learn actually none were found. The only better thing about that psychologically is that it has caused me to stop using it. With "none found" I could at least adjust my search to see what is available.

    Contact SC here. Click here to see how trophies are calculated. Click here for answer on how cc troops deploy (hint, it depends) and more info here. How is war map placement of max halls determined you ask, check out threads like this one. Thank you SC for the new legends! However, check this thread on how to fight collusion here.

  9. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by OnyxDS View Post
    Indeed it's the same underlying problem. But this way it looks like it's doing something, even if people don't like it. If search never returned a single player no matter what you did, you would conclude that the search was fundamentally broken.



    But the point is that no matter how you adjusted the search it would always return "no players found". Because every single player in the game would have a full inbox within a day or two.

    In the same way that the clouds were actually a (albeit unpopular) solution, not the problem: the number of desired attacks far exceeded the number of possible defences, so there had to be some mechanism to limit the attacks to equal the defences. And that rate limiting was clouds. At the moment the desire to send invites outstrips the inbox capacity. And the current limiting mechanism is that people can't wade through the "full inbox" messages to find the ones that aren't full, and give up. "Fixing" it just fills up any remaining inboxes and then there really are no targets left.

    -----------

    Having said that the system does seem to have implementation problems as well - I'm still not getting invites on my mini last time I checked. So the search seems odd, to say the least. But I suspect that no number of solutions to the search can fix the imbalance between players wanting to invite/recruit and the availability of players to be invited/recruited.
    It just isn't true that every single player has a full in box in a day or two. My own accounts and my clan mates get new invites daily. When I do actually use the faulty tool I do get some invites through, but it is frustrating to waste time on a bunch that are full before that happens.

    Let's put it this way, if it would be easy for SC to exclude full inboxes from the search and they are intentionally not doing that so that it looks better, I suggest to SC they never admit it. I don't think that is the case, though. I think it isn't a live search.

    Contact SC here. Click here to see how trophies are calculated. Click here for answer on how cc troops deploy (hint, it depends) and more info here. How is war map placement of max halls determined you ask, check out threads like this one. Thank you SC for the new legends! However, check this thread on how to fight collusion here.

  10. #220
    Millennial Club MommySnooks's Avatar
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    This will no doubt be one of those tricky issues to resolve. But just in skimming, I like the idea of people being able to not only turn invites on or off, but somehow limit who they receive invites *from.

    And though that doesn't address the whole issue,

    could there *also be a limit built into the system—like there is in legends—that allows you to only send “x” invites/day? /week? /hour? (Whatever makes sense?) so that people aren’t “spamming” invites?

    Would it be possible to make some combination of both of those elements work?


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