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Thread: Clan wars - TH12 Defensive perks

  1. #1

    Clan wars - TH12 Defensive perks

    Welcome to my suggestion thread.
    I'm going to try and make a nice organised post.
    Disclaimer: All DPS/Health/Range and other number suggestions are just suggestions by me. Ofcourse SuperCell would have to test it and come up with their own well-balanced numbers.
    Disclaimer 2: This post contains a lot of text. Viewer discretion is advised.


    Index:
    Part 1: The idea in a short concise explanation
    Part 2A: How would it work - for defenders
    Part 2B: How would it work - for attackers
    Part 3: The pro's
    Part 4: The con's
    Part 5: Alternative details to this new feature




    Part 1: The idea in a short concise explanation


    During preparation day of regular clan-wars (so not at all in CWL), all th12 bases have to choose one of three defensive perks.
    1: Cannon boost (Defends well against heroes, Pekka's, golems, etc.)
    2: Air Defence boost (Defends well against all air attacks, etc.)
    3: Wizard Tower boost (Defends well against multi-troop attacks, hogs, miners, loons, witches, etc.)
    Choosing one of these obviously will boost that defensive structure during the war, but will ALSO nerf/downgrade the other two options. All clanmates can see what their TH12's have chosen in the war roster, but to enemies it will remain a secret. However, the enemy clan can use scout attacks to try and discover what perk has been selected. This requires thorough teamwork to figure out what weakness a base will have, to try and give a slight advantage to TH12 attackers in getting that 3* result. There's more to it. Interested? Keep on reading!


    Part 2A: How would it work - for defenders
    So, if you are a TH12 you have to select one of the three afore-mentioned perks during war preparation day. Forget to pick one? It automatically switches to the last-selected-option during the last war the player participated in. You HAVE to have a perk enabled.
    Details about the perks:
    1: Cannon boost
    This option slightly increases Damage (DPS), Health (HP) and Range of all 7 cannons.
    Selecting one of the other two options (2 or 3) will degrade all 7 cannons by half of the same amount it would otherwise be increased with. So for example. Choosing this perk will give +10% DPS, HP and range. Not choosing this perk will penalise it with -5%DPS, HP and range.

    2: Air Defence boost
    This option slightly increases Damage (DPS), Health (HP) and Range of all 4 Air defences.
    And the same penalty for not choosing this option, as explained at option 1.

    3: Wizard Tower boost
    This option slightly increases Damage (DPS), Health (HP) and Range of all 5 Wizard towers.
    And the same penalty for not choosing this option, as explained at option 1.



    So choose carefully. Because you are going to be protecting your base against certain attacks, but leaving it vulnerable to other attacks. One building type gets +10%. Two other building types both get -5%. Boosting the cannons will help stopping strong-single typed (ground) enemies. (Heroes, Pekka's, golems, etc.) But leave the base open to air attacks and mass-troop attacks. And vice versa. Hint: a good strategy might be build a base that's already strong against certain attacks. And then boost the option of the base's weakness. For more, head on over to the pro's and con's list.

    Picture 1: Example of how the war map would appear for defenders.


    Part 2B: How would it work - for attackers
    If you're just going to attack a th12 base without knowing which perk it has enabled, that's fine. It's only a small increase and decrease in certain defence types. You could probably still get away with a low % 2star attack. But if you want to get 3 stars, then you NEED to know what you're dealing with.
    Already many clans use this technique: Scouting. Having lower th's scout TH12's up top to find traps, CC troops and Tesla farms. But with this new feature, scouts will be more important than ever! If a player attacks the base and destroys a certain amount of buildings, upon the end screen of the battle it will REVEAL the selected perk. For example, destroying 2 cannons will show wether or not OPTION 1 was selected. Destroying 1 AD will show wether or not OPTION 2 was selected. Destroying 2 wizard towers will show wether OPTION 3 was selected. (Or a combination thereof. Obviously getting 2 out of 3 requirements will reveal all, because knowing it wasn't options 1 and 2 for example, will conclude that the base has option 3 selected.) And last but not least, if the player was not scouting but was simply able to get 2 stars, all option selections of that base will also be revealed.
    Want to read more about what influence this will have on attacks? Head on over to the pro's and con's.


    Part 3: The pro's

    • Teamplay. This game is all about teamwork. More then ever will you need to discuss and talk with your clanmates. Are you a th12 who want's to hit their #1 base with Pekka Bobat? Well then it would be good to know wether or not the wizard towards have increased range or not. Or maybe wether a cannon farm is extra powerful today. So ask a lower th clanmate to try and hit 2 wizard towers or cannons (or both) to reveal this. Better yet, help them with a tactic to reach these defences so you can be sure.
    • The chance to get more 3 stars on th12's, so long as you plan carefully. It can be hard to 3 th12's nowadays. But by having a base's weakness revealed, you could adjust your strategy and gameplan to try and earn it! But, you have to be good at multiple strategies. Are you only good at spamming e-drags? Then better hope all enemy TH12's don't have buffed AD's selected for this war.
    • More teamwork! Discuss with your clanmates and diversify your th12's bases. Make sure some of all options are selected throughout the war map. And decide whether you want an anti-air base EVEN MORE anti-air, or to help it prevent some other attacks as well. Combine it with smart CC troops to get some unexpected events for the lazy unknowing attackers. What's that, a Lavahound in the CC and cannons are buffed? Your AQ is going to have a long hard day at work...
    • Challenge. Everything in this feature suggestion screams challenge. Challenge yourself to new levels of base design. Challenge your clanmates to plan smart. Challenge your leaders to arrange a better war strategy. You're going to need some lower attacks left to help scout up above! And last but not least. Challenge those lower town hall members to prove themselves and give them a chance to make a difference in a war. A war where victory or defeat is usually decided just by the skills of the highest players on the map. But not anymore. We need those lower town halls to give it all they got!





    Part 4: The con's

    • Yet another update that only brings new stuff for the highest town hall. (By the way, when TH13 comes. These perks would shift from TH12 to TH13. The idea is to only have perks for the highest town halls. The ones that are hardest to hit for 3*.) Yes, although lower town halls will have fun planning and attacking TH12s with certain tasks handed to them by their own TH12s. (Destroy that 6 o' clock AD. There's 2 cannons beside it too. Bring me that intel! )
    • It sounds way too complicated. Well it really isn't that complicated. If I could have good video creation and CGI skills like SC I could have it explained in a 3-5min video. Unfortunately, I can hardly work with paint. So this will have to make due. Plus, it's up to TH12s to understand this. And they are the most experienced players in the game. Surely they will catch on quick.
    • It will become harder to get 3 stars on a TH12 with a fresh hit. Yes that's true. That's why this shouldn't be implemented in CWL, only in regular wars. You need to have some attacks saved up below in the war map.
    • The Wizard towers/Air defences are too important, don't mess with them! Glad you brought it up, look below for alternative details to this suggestion.






    Part 5: Alternative details to this new feature
    So I realise there's a million ways to say, that would never work. Or this sounds stupid. Well luckily there are many ways to go here. Read on.

    • Different OPTIONS. Currently I used AD's/Cannons and Wizard towers as an example. You could easily choose any three defences as long as they each stop different attack strategies. I avoided XBOW's/Inferno's and the EA for obvious reasons. Perhaps instead of the wizard tower you could choose traps. Or the defending hero's. Think about it. Although I do think 3 perk options would be best. Not too many options, and not too few, otherwise it's too easy.
    • During a "scout" attack, a trained eye would be able to notice which perk was selected even if the required defences were not destroyed. They would look at how fast a defence is shooting, how far the range was when the defence got triggered etc. Well there's two possible answers to this. 1) Just accept it. That takes dedication and the game has always been like that. If you're willing to spent the time doing that, then you deserve a slight advantage. Or 2) don't increase DPS/HP/Range but implement some other form of perk. Have the last of the selected perk (the last remaining AD for example) give 50% extra DPS. This way, you could only SEE it if the scout destroyed 3 AD's AND faced the last AD. That would be fine because after destroying 1 AD you're already going to have the selected perk revealed. Or how about a mystery defensive building? A big question mark building covered in fog. Depending on the selected perk this building will either be an EXTRA AD, WT or cannon. Use a scout to find out or just go in blind and wait and see. Many ways to go here.
    • Special scout attacks only available to non-th12 players. You could implement this. By doing this, a failed TH12 on TH12 attack will not reveal the enemy's selected perk. You will need to have a lower TH scout. Also, have the scout be rewarded based on how many options they revealed. Away with looting during war. Earn those resources!
    • Alter the DPS/HP/Range %. As I said, it's up too SC to make sure the game stays balanced. I chose +10% and -5%, -5% because that roughly evens up. Except for the fact that there are different amount of each buildings. So it would probably be different percentages.
    • I suggested that the Perks selected would be all revealed if 2 stars were gotten during scout. You could change this as well perhaps to 50% destruction or another % for example.





    So. If you made it this far with your reading, I hope you enjoyed the read. I doubt this idea will ever make into Clash of Clans, however. Perhaps, together with the you guys, the forum community, we can discuss this and who knows, maybe we'll find an alternative that does sound good to SC. Anyhow. Thank you for reading. And to those who are going to post TL;DR!. I agree, let's play some Clash!
    Last edited by Stoppp; 4 Weeks Ago at 07:35 PM.
    This post was sponsored by MightySword (lvl 18), one of the serious war clans in the Mighty Family. Looking for a competitive clan to develop your skills and enjoy the game with? Come have a look. We’re mostly interested in th10-12.
    #208GJG2J .Or have a look at our recruitment thread: https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...r-Clan-TH10-12

  2. #2
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    I'm not keen on making it harder to get three stars at the top TH. It isn't easy now for most folks so making it tougher will make it a lot less enjoyable.

    Because the setting you choose is effectively hidden from your opponents (at least for first attack) this appears to me to be a form of camouflage which is ruled out.

  3. #3
    Forum Champion PhilISuppose's Avatar
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    You provide a lot of detail, bit no reason WHY we need this.
    TH12 seems pretty balanced at the moment.

    Your brilliant new idea is already ruled out, here. Why CWL is straight after Season Pass ends, here.
    There's no matchmaking in CWL. Contact support, here, forum players can't always help.
    Current trader cycle. Before posting, are you just feeding the troll?

  4. #4
    Pro Member Be A Legend's Avatar
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    I agree with the tosti and Phil. IF this would be implemented, it would be something for th13. Th12 seems balanced. Any more defense buffs would take away balance.

    But yeah, it's something new and not ruled out, which is rare at the IFR subforum 😁. I like how you put the needed details and structure into your post.
    Last edited by Be A Legend; 4 Weeks Ago at 08:32 PM.

  5. #5
    Hey guys, thanks for the replies, let me answer each one here below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tosti111 View Post
    1) I'm not keen on making it harder to get three stars at the top TH. It isn't easy now for most folks so making it tougher will make it a lot less enjoyable.

    2) Because the setting you choose is effectively hidden from your opponents (at least for first attack) this appears to me to be a form of camouflage which is ruled out.
    Hi There Tosti.

    1) So I can't agree with you more, I don't want to make it harder to get three stars at TH12. This feature should make it more possible to get three stars at TH12. Not saying easier, not saying harder, but more possibilities to get a perfect victory. Because a TH12 base will get a Stronger defense towards one defensive building, but a weaker defense towards another two buildings. That way, if you plan accordingly you are able to take advantage of the weakness of the base. (Weaker AD's for example will make air attacks easier.) But you HAVE to know what the weakness is, otherwise you're just shooting blinds. Which will still be fine, I'm only suggesting small increases and decreases to the buildings.

    2) Very valid point, thanks for pointing that out. I'm hoping one of SC moderators will reply to this suggestion and then I can take it from there. If they truly think this is like camouflage I could tweak the feature so that this will no longer be a problem.


    Quote Originally Posted by PhilISuppose View Post
    3) You provide a lot of detail, bit no reason WHY we need this.

    4)TH12 seems pretty balanced at the moment.
    Hey PhilISuppose,

    3) So I didn't specifically mention the WHY on its own, you're right. Let me sum it up here and maybe include it in the OP.
    Why do we need this feature? This will
    • Give more meaningful scouts to lower TH's and a chance to be a part of deciding the war. If your clan fights with like 15/8/5/2 (TH12/11/10/9), the TH9s and TH10s have to take care of three starring their opponents. But even if they fail someone will clean it up. So their part in war isn't really crucial at all. With this new feature their scouts will become super important, if they succeed. Giving more meaning to their attacks and a chance to prove themselves worthy for the clan. Will be a big motivator. Otherwise the war is just decided by the strength of the TH12s only.
    • Make it possible for TH12s to get three stars more often, as long as the base was scouted right and they know how to take advantage of the base's weakness. Without making TH12 weaker as a whole though.
    • Give more options to base design and base defending which in turn can make the defending part of clan wars a lot more interesting.


    4) This feature is not at all supposed to be about balancing TH12s. Please see my explanation below to Be A Legend as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Be A Legend View Post
    5)I agree with the tosti and Phil. IF this would be implemented, it would be something for th13. Th12 seems balanced. Any more defense buffs would take away balance.

    6)But yeah, it's something new and not ruled out, which is rare at the IFR subforum 😁. I like how you put the needed details and structure into your post.
    Hey there, Be A Legend!

    5) So about that, this feature isn't meant to balance TH12 at all. Any Buff to a defense type by choosing that PERK, will be countered by a nerf to the other 2 defense types because you didn't choose those PERKS. All in all they will cancel each other out. A quick example:
    Small hypothetical TH12 base. 3 Defenses, Ad, WT, and cannon. All have 20DPS. Total base DPS = 60. You choose the cannon PERK. The cannon will now deal 22 DPS, and the AD and WT will each in turn deal 19 DPS. Total base DPS is still 60, but the base now has a slight weakness towards air and mass troops, and a stronger defense towards single type strong enemies. I know it's not that simple to just 'cancel' out the effects, but SC could make it work, as they do all the time with balancing updates.

    6) Thanks man! I have a lot more ideas. (I actually had an idea for catapults and siege machines once, but I didn't post it because many ideas get burned down. Nowadays there are siege machines and I'm thinking, darn if only I had said something haha.) And I'm judging to see how this goes and maybe I'll post the other ideas soon as well. But I don't want 1 sentence posts. I want to spend some time on the ideas.

    Keep 'em coming guys, all the criticism is greatly appreciated. Like I said in my OP, probably this idea won't be implemented by SC. But together with your input we might be able to shift towards something that WILL be implemented in the future. See it as a suggestion in progress. All ideas are welcome.
    This post was sponsored by MightySword (lvl 18), one of the serious war clans in the Mighty Family. Looking for a competitive clan to develop your skills and enjoy the game with? Come have a look. We’re mostly interested in th10-12.
    #208GJG2J .Or have a look at our recruitment thread: https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...r-Clan-TH10-12

  6. #6
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    So I see it slightly differently than you. Take Legends league for example. Today I bring a generic all purpose army to attack a base I don't get to choose or see prior to my attack. If I bring an air army and its not air friendly, I will not be successful. Vice versa for ground.

    With your suggestion, not only do I have the air/ground scenario but now will have three more variants depending on which defense you have chosen to augment and which ones your have chosen to minimize. I would see the three star rate declining even further rather than improving. Today I would have a 50/50 chance of choosing the right army, tomorrow I would have a 1/6 chance of choosing the correct army.

  7. #7
    This feature has nothing to do with farming. It's normal war only. See the original post.
    And just to correct your math, it would 2/6, because it generates two slight weaknesses.
    This post was sponsored by MightySword (lvl 18), one of the serious war clans in the Mighty Family. Looking for a competitive clan to develop your skills and enjoy the game with? Come have a look. We’re mostly interested in th10-12.
    #208GJG2J .Or have a look at our recruitment thread: https://forum.supercell.com/showthre...r-Clan-TH10-12

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoppp View Post
    This feature has nothing to do with farming. It's normal war only. See the original post.
    And just to correct your math, it would 2/6, because it generates two slight weaknesses.
    Sorry missed the Reg war only part. (Legends isn't farming for everyone by the way). Yes your math is more correct.

    I still have the issue with camouflage though, even in regular war. In war you have time to assess the base and choose your troops and create a strategy. Without being able to EASILY identify which of the three defensive postures you have augmented, I am going in blind. This would still create the same impairment to 3 star strategies. Today I can see what you have and make a good assessment and bring the right armies and attempt to get a three star. Tomorrow I cannot see what you have, will not make a good assessment and have a 1/3 shot of bringing the correct armies. That could be solved by somehow making it easy for me to see which posture you took so that I can exploit it by choosing one of the other postures you chose to minimize. If that were the case however, it may make it too easy to three star and effectively nullify any desire by the defender to choose one of your three options and just leave it the way it is today because the defenders odds are better.
    Last edited by Tosti111; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:17 PM.

  9. #9
    I understand your point, and maybe the hidden effect will be this idea's downfall. But I came up with this part because I see that most TH12 max v TH12 max get 2 stars. High 2 stars if the attack was good, low 2 stars if it wasn't that good. With this feature I wanted to spread those a little more. Get a few more failed 1 stars and a few more 3 stars. But that depends on having scouted. Without the knowledge of the enemy's perks, the goal of this feature should be that you still have a good chance. I'm not saying +1000DPS, I'm looking for small adjustments. So that even if you attack with an army that's the WRONG choice, you can still get a good 2 star attack, which is what most max TH12 v max TH12's are anyways. But if you choose the RIGHT army, you have a little bit higher chance of getting that 3 star.

    I totally understand what you mean though. I'm just saying that it shouldn't have as much influence as you are saying.
    Last edited by Stoppp; 4 Weeks Ago at 04:36 PM.
    This post was sponsored by MightySword (lvl 18), one of the serious war clans in the Mighty Family. Looking for a competitive clan to develop your skills and enjoy the game with? Come have a look. We’re mostly interested in th10-12.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stoppp View Post
    Hey there, Be A Legend!

    5) So about that, this feature isn't meant to balance TH12 at all. Any Buff to a defense type by choosing that PERK, will be countered by a nerf to the other 2 defense types because you didn't choose those PERKS. All in all they will cancel each other out. A quick example:
    Small hypothetical TH12 base. 3 Defenses, Ad, WT, and cannon. All have 20DPS. Total base DPS = 60. You choose the cannon PERK. The cannon will now deal 22 DPS, and the AD and WT will each in turn deal 19 DPS. Total base DPS is still 60, but the base now has a slight weakness towards air and mass troops, and a stronger defense towards single type strong enemies. I know it's not that simple to just 'cancel' out the effects, but SC could make it work, as they do all the time with balancing updates.
    This idea would definitly change balance. Becouse in case nr.1, you have a ground army and you smash the base down becouse the AD have their nerf. BUT in case nr.2, I have an air army and I fail the attack becouse of a 10% buff of the AD. The problem is that you don't know what base you are dealing with. So you can't choose a good army for that base.

    I personally am against lucky spins in games. This is the same.

    Clash Casino, *OPEN*
    "Let's attack this one." "Okay, turn the wheel and win!" *Clicks the wheel and wheel turns* "You have trained an air army and the wheel stopped at 'AD buff' so this means you don't win today. But come back tomorrow to try your luck again!"

    Do you get my point?

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