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  Click here to go to the first staff post in this thread.   Thread: Is it time to finally kill off the engineers in war?

  1. #21
    Forum Champion PhilISuppose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by computerfan0 View Post
    This happened to my clan. Their number 17 (engineered 11, mirrored with my own little th8 with nearly all buildings [except one tesla which will be finished by the end of the war, walls and the archer tower gear-up due to not being bh6 yet] and a good portion of the lab maxed) 3-starred our number 2 (decently upgraded th11) And no, it was a 20v20, not a 50v50. Also shrugged off TH8 attacks due to ED in castle (which I mentioned elsewhere)
    A war is balanced across 20 (in your case) members, not 1v1.
    Your mirror is totally irrelevant to the war being balanced or not, sorry.

    As soon as you mention "mirror" your whole argument is pretty much irrelevant.

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  2. #22
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    FWIW we won this one 43-20. They were really bad at attacking the same TH level. But it doesn’t change my view that this can be improved upon in war weight calculations.
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  3. #23
    I wasn't the only TH8 (that guy was in between two th8s) 19 was also an 11.

    EDIT: I meant to quote the person who tried to shoot me down about "mirror" but I don't know how to on mobile.
    Last edited by computerfan0; 3 Weeks Ago at 10:54 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by computerfan0 View Post
    I wasn't the only TH8 (that guy was in between two th8s) 19 was also an 11.

    EDIT: I meant to quote the person who tried to shoot me down about "mirror" but I don't know how to on mobile.
    It doesn't shoot him down, though. He is correct that referencing "mirror" weakens your argument since it means nothing and suggests you think it does. The map order is the order of defensive weight only (at best) and is only in reference to the rest of their own clan. What the weight is of the player across from you means very little. The match is the full clan against the full clan. They might have a stronger account than your clan at #15 while you might have a stronger account at #2. I'd rather have it at #2 by the way.
    Also, if it did weigh on defense similar to a th8 on defense, that isn't the best kind of engineered th11. Usually when we see an account like that we have an advantage somewhere else more important.
    Last edited by 2222; 3 Weeks Ago at 11:02 PM.
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  5. #25
    Forum Champion PhilISuppose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by computerfan0 View Post
    This happened to my clan. Their number 17 (engineered 11, mirrored with my own little th8 with nearly all buildings [except one tesla which will be finished by the end of the war, walls and the archer tower gear-up due to not being bh6 yet] and a good portion of the lab maxed) 3-starred our number 2 (decently upgraded th11) And no, it was a 20v20, not a 50v50. Also shrugged off TH8 attacks due to ED in castle (which I mentioned elsewhere)
    Quote Originally Posted by PhilISuppose View Post
    A war is balanced across 20 (in your case) members, not 1v1.
    Your mirror is totally irrelevant to the war being balanced or not, sorry.

    As soon as you mention "mirror" your whole argument is pretty much irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by computerfan0 View Post
    I wasn't the only TH8 (that guy was in between two th8s) 19 was also an 11.

    EDIT: I meant to quote the person who tried to shoot me down about "mirror" but I don't know how to on mobile.
    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    It doesn't shoot him down, though. He is correct that referencing "mirror" weakens your argument since it means nothing and suggests you think it does. The map order is the order of defensive weight only (at best) and is only in reference to the rest of their own clan. What the weight is of the player across from you means very little. The match is the full clan against the full clan. They might have a stronger account than your clan at #15 while you might have a stronger account at #2. I'd rather have it at #2 by the way.
    Also, if it did weigh on defense similar to a th8 on defense, that isn't the best kind of engineered th11. Usually when we see an account like that we have an advantage somewhere else more important.
    If you can't three star an engineered TH11 with less weight than a max TH8 then I think the war being "unbalanced" is the least of your worries.

    Your brilliant new idea is already ruled out, here. Why CWL is straight after Season Pass ends, here.
    There's no matchmaking in CWL. Contact support, here, forum players can't always help.
    Current trader cycle. Before posting, are you just feeding the troll?

  6.   Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread.   #26
    Quote Originally Posted by 2222 View Post
    Remember at best the map order shows defensive weight only. There is offensive weight too that you don't see there. So, minideathclaw, yes, they have added weight to offense (a long time ago) and that made a big difference, but not enough. More recently they seem to have made more improvements. I think it is better than ever. That doesn't mean it couldn't be improved, though, and I do think a minimum defensive weight of 90% of the max of the hall below would be an improvement overall. Nothing is perfect so I wouldn't claim there are no disadvantages to it, but I think it would be an overall improvement.
    I don't think there is any chance at all of SC doing that because one disadvantage is that it would have the effect of encouraging perma-maxing, which SC definitely want to discourage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grill View Post
    But when something like an update is to be expected all stupid breaks loose and it just becomes an idiot storm of catastrophic proportion.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    I don't think there is any chance at all of SC doing that because one disadvantage is that it would have the effect of encouraging perma-maxing, which SC definitely want to discourage.
    I would just go with assign the minimum for every structure that has to be built, but there is some sweet spot (between 90% of max and L1 of everything).
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  8.   This is the last staff post in this thread.   #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Quali View Post
    I would just go with assign the minimum for every structure that has to be built, but there is some sweet spot (between 90% of max and L1 of everything).
    Everybody upgrading now has to have at least those minimums.

    I dou 4 SC would bother with what is probably a significant code change just to make legacy accounts look like current ones to the MM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grill View Post
    But when something like an update is to be expected all stupid breaks loose and it just becomes an idiot storm of catastrophic proportion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Maverick View Post
    Any more balance to th10 will make th10 broken...
    My stats (main account)

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajax View Post
    Everybody upgrading now has to have at least those minimums.

    I dou 4 SC would bother with what is probably a significant code change just to make legacy accounts look like current ones to the MM.
    Everybody upgrading has to have them is the point - a TH11 that can’t be built has an advantage. I doubt writing code to look at war weight of the account vs age is less than minimum value, else make minimum value, would be significant. I freely accept I could be wrong on this. The fact that it requires a code change (of unknown complexity) needs to be weighed up by any supercell staff reading this, agreed.
    Started playing Jan 2019
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quali View Post
    Everybody upgrading has to have them is the point - a TH11 that can’t be built has an advantage. I doubt writing code to look at war weight of the account vs age is less than minimum value, else make minimum value, would be significant. I freely accept I could be wrong on this. The fact that it requires a code change (of unknown complexity) needs to be weighed up by any supercell staff reading this, agreed.
    Let's talk about that 'advantage' that an engineered TH11 has. If you come across a clan that focusses on mirror attacking, yes it's an advantage. If you are facing clans with fewer TH11s than you it is an advantage. It can lower the overall weight for your clan. If you enjoy playing in the kiddie leagues warring with newbies, it is an advantage. It does have an irritation value against non-engineered clans.

    Now let's look at the disadvantages. It will be a non-starter for CWL rendering it a donation account only. If they are foolish enough to put it in CWL, it will get three starred. The MM does not generally match non-engineers to engineers so you will match others who game the MM as well, rendering it's advantage null. Once a clan has as their lowest member a TH10 in their roster, the MM advantage has disappeared or is close to it. That account can never advance higher without dropping defenses. We toss in the odd low level account so that we can match engineers because they are usually an easy war for us, so do others. With speed of progression today, we already see almost none of these accounts and they are dwindling rapidly as their usefulness deteriorates. That same speed of progression for everyone else is a wonderful thing, they will advance beyond it's reach and within another year a defenseless TH11 will be two TH's below max and easy opponents will be more difficult to find. It cannot take advantage of all the perks and rewards and challenges (what will they do with a hammer of building for example).

    Just so we're clear, I'm not defending engineers, I just see the expiry date on a defenseless Th11 fast approaching and I see no need to spend any time or energy trying to 'fix' it. Let it become the relic that it is, sitting on someone's trophy shelf gathering dust, right next to the grade 3 participation medal and meaning about as much.

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