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Thread: More legends questions

  1. #21
    Super Member MommySnooks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armageddon3223 View Post
    Part of being a good attacker is being able to adapt your army and attacking style to whatever base you encounter.

    An extra 30 seconds of scouting wouldn't hurt though.
    True. Thanks.

    30 seconds maybe, or they can make all the key defenses glow and/or jump up and down like HD plants that need watering. Lol. Something for IFR? (Yeah, kind of being silly here, but 20% not.)

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  2. #22
    Senior Member Toni1963's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MommySnooks View Post
    So now in legends, it’s take what you’re most comfortable with, and hope more of the 8 bases match up for you, than for the other guys. Doesn’t that remove one whole piece of the puzzle and throw in an extra element of luck?
    Yes, there's that element of luck that I, as a not so good Legends attacker, sometimes find irritating. But I know people more skilled than me can do high percent two stars, if not 100%, to almost any base they are faced, with any army they come with, with only 30 seconds scouting. I want to reach such attacking skill, and I think Legends, as is right now, is the perfect place to achieve it.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MommySnooks View Post
    Defending also gets harder if attackers have choices. So, knowing people would have a few options to fall back on, you’d have to consider that in designing a base. Wouldn’t that require people to use more strategy in creating a defense?

    So....do people have less skill if they can effectively use more attacks? You’d have the same options. Wouldn’t what you’re saying in terms of strategy mean something like people who are *”skilled at designing an anti-dragon base vs attacking with dragons”. Or “skill at designing an anti-bowler base, vs attacking with bowlers”. Is there skill involved in guessing what army people are going to attack you with?
    The skill is in not GUESSING, but in making informed decisions. There's a LOT more skill involved in "I have 1 army that I can take, and I got 4 triples and 4 doubles" vs "I had 2 very different armies to choose from, and I got 4 triples and 4 doubles".

    The point about using 2 armies, you don't have to be AS skilled at either if you can pick which one you want to use after you see a base. If you want to be good currently, you HAVE to be good at multiple strategies, AND you have to be good at knowing when you take those armies at different trophy levels. There's clearly less skill involved if you say today "you have to be good at 2 things to succeed" and tomorrow you say "you have to only be good at 1 of those things to succeed."

    To your question, it takes almost zero skill to match the army to the base when you've got 2 choices of an army. You're not brewing super specific armies like you might in a war. You're almost certainly brewing based on an obvious decision point (i.e. single vs multi infernos, air vs ground bows, etc). I think it takes a lot more skill to be presented with "ok, i took an army I believe is the right army for the majority of bases I'll see...but it's not a great army for the base I'm looking at, how can I adjust on the fly to make the best of this situation?".

    There's skill in gameplay and strategy (i.e. pre-attack), and there's skill in the 3 minutes of attack. Removing all skill in gameplay and strategy necessarily creates a situation where players with weaknesses are rewarded by not having to do the thing they're poor at. If you want to eliminate the first of the two types of strategy, we should all just be shown the same bases all the time and handed the armies we are assigned to use against them.

    I believe there is a LOT more skill involved in "hmm, not the ideal army for this base, how can I figure this problem out quickly" than "hmm, not an ideal army for my base, let me swap to the other army I brought". To your point about being good at multiple army configurations...I think it's practically an irrelevant level of skill difference to be good at 2 armies vs 1 army. It's so amazingly easy to acquire the same skill level for a 2nd army that it doesn't even register (whatever that skill level is, duplicating your basic level of skill to another army config is super transferable).

  4. #24
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    Just throwing in a +1 for an extension to 60 seconds of scouting. Some of us are really slow at mental arithmetic. :'(

  5. #25
    Super Member crazybod's Avatar
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    I don't see the point in the suggested changes.

    The better players would be even more successful with an extra 30 seconds scout time and 2 armies to choose from.

    The average player would be more successful too.

    Overall, the % on attacks and defence would both increase in a net gain of nothing changing from the status quo. The best players would still rise to the top and then just be getting 8 triples on attack and defence on each other and the rest of us mere mortals would still be below them.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmoore1998 View Post
    That removes a huge component of the current strategy in Legends though. Part of the strategy is "what army do I want to take that I think will work against most bases I see?" rather than "I'll just make 2 so I'll be covered".

    Same thing for defenses "How do I defend my base against the armies I think people are likely to bring to attack me" vs "everyone is likely to bring 2 armies that each work against different designs, so most of those decisions are irrelevant".

    It might make things more "enjoyable" because generally speaking as things get easier and require much less skill...people with less skill find them more enjoyable. But every time you make those changes, you remove more and more skill from the equation. More people find driving an automatic transmission enjoyable because it's easier than a manual. It also takes much less skill. So there's the disconnect between "make it easy and more enjoyable" and "make it harder and more reliant on skill". Legends should be more about skill (attack, defend, strategic, etc) than simply making it easier for people with less skill to do better.
    You mention about defence but having to defend against potentially 2 diff armies surely means that we would see more bases? There is one base that pops up probably at least once a day, that I can generally 3 star with hogs nice and easily. If I could take w hog army as well as peka smash then I can switch it up and 3 star that base with hogs when it appears. This means that base might become less popular which will create more variety which can only be a good thing

  7. #27
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    It's a bit like the people who are only comfortable with just 1-2 army comps in war and she/he struggles if she/he chooses the wrong base to hit or fails to plan out the attack properly. I think Legends is no different you pick an army you believe you can do well with, against most bases, and sometimes you get a good match and sometimes you are not going to do great. Personally I find it more enjoyable in the lower leagues Titans is a bit more crowded but at least i can pick and choose....if you are not finished drop somewhere between champs and gold and enjoy the easy loot and defenses you will get along with a ton of trophy drops...

  8. #28
    Super Member MommySnooks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmoore1998 View Post
    The skill is in not GUESSING, but in making informed decisions. There's a LOT more skill involved in "I have 1 army that I can take, and I got 4 triples and 4 doubles" vs "I had 2 very different armies to choose from, and I got 4 triples and 4 doubles".

    The point about using 2 armies, you don't have to be AS skilled at either if you can pick which one you want to use after you see a base. If you want to be good currently, you HAVE to be good at multiple strategies, AND you have to be good at knowing when you take those armies at different trophy levels.
    Ok, I get the first part, but...armies and trophy levels are connected somehow?

    There's clearly less skill involved if you say today "you have to be good at 2 things to succeed" and tomorrow you say "you have to only be good at 1 of those things to succeed."
    That one lost me.

    To your question, it takes almost zero skill to match the army to the base when you've got 2 choices of an army. You're not brewing super specific armies like you might in a war. You're almost certainly brewing based on an obvious decision point (i.e. single vs multi infernos, air vs ground bows, etc). I think it takes a lot more skill to be presented with "ok, i took an army I believe is the right army for the majority of bases I'll see...but it's not a great army for the base I'm looking at, how can I adjust on the fly to make the best of this situation?".
    Ok, then from your pov, the ability to adapt on the fly takes more skill than the planning. True, the point about not training specific armies for a base like you do in war, makes sense. Which is essentially what Iíd like the extra 30-seconds for. If I only have one, and actually even if I had four, Iíd still need to figure out which to use and then what on earth to do with it. The ďon the flyĒ stuff is something Iím not glorious at. (Yes, Iíve read the other comments about others having more time, too. I guess I wouldnít really know whether it would be good or bad for me, unless that change happened and I tried it both ways.)

    There's skill in gameplay and strategy (i.e. pre-attack), and there's skill in the 3 minutes of attack. Removing all skill in gameplay and strategy necessarily creates a situation where players with weaknesses are rewarded by not having to do the thing they're poor at. If you want to eliminate the first of the two types of strategy, we should all just be shown the same bases all the time and handed the armies we are assigned to use against them.
    I donít agree that giving an extra 30 seconds to plan will ďremove all skill in gameplay and strategyĒ.

    I believe there is a LOT more skill involved in "hmm, not the ideal army for this base, how can I figure this problem out quickly" than "hmm, not an ideal army for my base, let me swap to the other army I brought". To your point about being good at multiple army configurations...I think it's practically an irrelevant level of skill difference to be good at 2 armies vs 1 army. It's so amazingly easy to acquire the same skill level for a 2nd army that it doesn't even register (whatever that skill level is, duplicating your basic level of skill to another army config is super transferable).
    Well, not to all of us. As usual, Iím speaking for myself as a more casual sort of player vs elite e-sport types, or those who find this sort of thing just comes naturally. I think itís still more a matter of what *type of skill they want to test out in legends.

    Quote Originally Posted by Munitor View Post
    Just throwing in a +1 for an extension to 60 seconds of scouting. Some of us are really slow at mental arithmetic. :'(
    Ditto.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazybod View Post
    I don't see the point in the suggested changes.

    The better players would be even more successful with an extra 30 seconds scout time and 2 armies to choose from.

    The average player would be more successful too.

    Overall, the % on attacks and defence would both increase in a net gain of nothing changing from the status quo. The best players would still rise to the top and then just be getting 8 triples on attack and defence on each other and the rest of us mere mortals would still be below them.
    I like that. But in my imagination I have to wonder whether with the extra time, some of us mere mortals might likeóget that couple of hundred trophies higher and make it that little bit harder for the elite 6000+ players to get where theyíre going? So there would be a few more people in the 5000-5500 range, Iíd guess? Am I wrong in thinking that? Would that be a bad thing? I mean, until TH13 comes out and they smush us all again anyway while we spend the next six-twelve months catching up, lol.


    Quote Originally Posted by RazorUltron View Post
    You mention about defence but having to defend against potentially 2 diff armies surely means that we would see more bases? There is one base that pops up probably at least once a day, that I can generally 3 star with hogs nice and easily. If I could take w hog army as well as peka smash then I can switch it up and 3 star that base with hogs when it appears. This means that base might become less popular which will create more variety which can only be a good thing

    Another thing to think about? (Although r now I donít mind similar bases. Iím still in the process of figuring those out, lol. Watching YouTube, even the ones with good explanations, doesnít necessarily translate into being able to replicate it. More like information overload.)


    Quote Originally Posted by Rylon View Post
    It's a bit like the people who are only comfortable with just 1-2 army comps in war and she/he struggles if she/he chooses the wrong base to hit or fails to plan out the attack properly. I think Legends is no different you pick an army you believe you can do well with, against most bases, and sometimes you get a good match and sometimes you are not going to do great. Personally I find it more enjoyable in the lower leagues Titans is a bit more crowded but at least i can pick and choose....if you are not finished drop somewhere between champs and gold and enjoy the easy loot and defenses you will get along with a ton of trophy drops...
    Totally agree with the first part. And yeah. I donít love titans clouds (even though they are way better now than the stories I read before of 30-45 min or even timing out, so Iím grateful for that.) But if I have trouble staying in legends as I upgrade, Iíll get dropped out and will just climb naturally as I get stronger, like when I got to TH10/11 and was completing clan games and seasonís challenges, I found I had to purposely work to stay *out of champs.

    Thanks for the pretty kitty, Icey!
    You're actually more blind than Soumil, and Soumil is literally more blind than a bat-Rad
    Much convince. Amazing argument. Very believe. Rad town. Cant scum.-NTRP
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  9. #29
    Super Member crazybod's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=MommySnooks;12305474]Ok, I get the first part, but...armies and trophy levels are connected somehow?



    That one lost me.



    Ok, then from your pov, the ability to adapt on the fly takes more skill than the planning. True, the point about not training specific armies for a base like you do in war, makes sense. Which is essentially what Iíd like the extra 30-seconds for. If I only have one, and actually even if I had four, Iíd still need to figure out which to use and then what on earth to do with it. The ďon the flyĒ stuff is something Iím not glorious at. (Yes, Iíve read the other comments about others having more time, too. I guess I wouldnít really know whether it would be good or bad for me, unless that change happened and I tried it both ways.)



    I donít agree that giving an extra 30 seconds to plan will ďremove all skill in gameplay and strategyĒ.



    Well, not to all of us. As usual, Iím speaking for myself as a more casual sort of player vs elite e-sport types, or those who find this sort of thing just comes naturally. I think itís still more a matter of what *type of skill they want to test out in legends.



    Ditto.



    I like that. But in my imagination I have to wonder whether with the extra time, some of us mere mortals might likeóget that couple of hundred trophies higher and make it that little bit harder for the elite 6000+ players to get where theyíre going? So there would be a few more people in the 5000-5500 range, Iíd guess? Am I wrong in thinking that? Would that be a bad thing? I mean, until TH13 comes out and they smush us all again anyway while we spend the next six-twelve months catching up, lol.





    I have no idea why you think your trophy count will increase.

    Yes,you may get more trophies while attacking but you will lose just as many more on defence.

    The point I am trying to make is if it's made easier for you,it's made easier for everyone, so whatever the trophy count you end up landing on, the players that are better than you will be above you,and the players that are worse below, so nothing will change there.

  10. #30
    Super Member MommySnooks's Avatar
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    Ok, well I understand that’s what you’re saying but I’m not sure it would be an equal number added/subtracted.

    Just thought of a way to check it out though. I think if I can find time to get a couple of new bases in, I’ll ask some clanmates who are maxed to hit one with 30 and one with 60 seconds scouting. I’ll do the same with them and calculate the trophies we’d have gotten if it were in legends. It won’t be any sort of simple size to speak of and it’ll probably end very badly, but it’ll still be fun, lol.

    Thanks for the pretty kitty, Icey!
    You're actually more blind than Soumil, and Soumil is literally more blind than a bat-Rad
    Much convince. Amazing argument. Very believe. Rad town. Cant scum.-NTRP
    why thank you <3 -Rad

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